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Should Trump Be Impeached Due to Erratic Behavior?

Should Trump Be Impeached Due to Erratic Behavior?


  • Total voters
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Many common chords with me here.

Hillary lost that election by running a lousy campaign, and the point where it went all downhill fast was with her 'deplorables' speech.

When wanting to garner people's votes, you don't go and alienate a bunch of them, especially the independents, by doing that; it being the height of arrogance, as I'm sure she figured that she didn't need those votes (turned out she did but didn't think so).

I fear too for my progeny, both from the hyper partisanship that's taken hold, as well as the deep and apparently irreconcilable differences that cause division rather than unity, and the continued attacks on that which should unity the nation, such as the pledge of allegiance, respect for the flag and what it represents, and commonality of values which appears to be eroding.

here's my take in a nutshell ( no pun intended ) What was once our greatest asset has become our biggest downfall..our diversity,and acceptance and tolerance of those who are 'different' than ourselves.They really should grind off the words carved into the Statue of Liberty and update to reflect our current values,or lack thereof,as the case may be.
 
Seriously, it was well knows how bad the media sucked for at least 10, if not 20 years.
Trump just called it out.

How is Trump responsible for the journalists / 'news' media's choices?
Seems to me that the journalists and news media outlets are still the ones that are in control of their own content, and their own editorial decisions.

I mean we do have a free press, right? No one if forcing the journalists and news media outlets to do anything they don't want to do.
These decisions they make are all of their own volition. So all the loss of credibility from this is self-inflicted.

We may have a bit of a difference of opinion here. I don't agree that journalists have been making bad choices. Trump does not like to see the truth about himself and has decided to attack the messenger. As we can see, that is effective among his defenders.
 
We may have a bit of a difference of opinion here. I don't agree that journalists have been making bad choices. Trump does not like to see the truth about himself and has decided to attack the messenger. As we can see, that is effective among his defenders.

One of the main criteria I use to determine how 'fair and balanced' any given news outlet is,is to see which stations have the most diversified guest panels/pundits on their respective channels...So one week I went back and forth between CNN and Fox. ( I rarely watch MSNBC). CNN had about 4 times as many conservative guests when compared to FOX NEWS liberal/dem guests/pundits...Granted it was not the most scientific experiment,but most certainly CNN,by far had,dollar for dollar, had many more conservatives guests than FOX had lib/dem guests.
 
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We may have a bit of a difference of opinion here. I don't agree that journalists have been making bad choices. Trump does not like to see the truth about himself and has decided to attack the messenger. As we can see, that is effective among his defenders.

When journalists / 'news' broadcasters and publishers stop reporting political news and start becoming cheer leaders of a perspective, a narrative, a political agenda, by their own actions and accord, how can you say that this isn't bad choices, unless, of course, you agree with those narratives, that political agenda that they preach?

No, the bad choices aren't whether to smack Trump (fine if he deserves it - fair is fair, he volunteered for it), the bad choices are to stop being honest and even handed and factual reporters of politics in favor of becoming participants in politics. This is my heartburn and issue with 'news' and journalism at this point.

Once journalism and 'news' take political sides, and advocate for those political agendas, then they are no longer reporting on politics, they are political participants, and their 'news' coverage becomes political propaganda (advocating for political positions and public policies).

Trump receiving the wrath of the 'news' media is because he called them out on it, granted, most frequently identified by criticism of him, but none the less, the issue with a politicized and politically advocating 'news' media remains.

News is not (or shouldn't be) political advocacy, and political advocacy is not the news.
 
When journalists / 'news' broadcasters and publishers stop reporting political news and start becoming cheer leaders of a perspective, a narrative, a political agenda, by their own actions and accord, how can you say that this isn't bad choices, unless, of course, you agree with those narratives, that political agenda that they preach?

No, the bad choices aren't whether to smack Trump (fine if he deserves it - fair is fair, he volunteered for it), the bad choices are to stop being honest and even handed and factual reporters of politics in favor of becoming participants in politics. This is my heartburn and issue with 'news' and journalism at this point.

Once journalism and 'news' take political sides, and advocate for those political agendas, then they are no longer reporting on politics, they are political participants, and their 'news' coverage becomes political propaganda (advocating for political positions and public policies).

Trump receiving the wrath of the 'news' media is because he called them out on it, granted, most frequently identified by criticism of him, but none the less, the issue with a politicized and politically advocating 'news' media remains.

News is not (or shouldn't be) political advocacy, and political advocacy is not the news.

This a bit off topic ( news/journalism).....but when a President starts revoking security clearances from some of the brightest intelligence resources we have,simply bcoz they,in good conscience,speak out against certain policies...that is childish,thin-skinned,dangerous waters.That is why we are seeing so many former military folks voicing their outrage when Trump threatens to revoke just to exact revenge.We need these people's expertise and experience,and we all suffer in the end when we lose these patriot's experience and expertise regarding matters of national security.
 
When journalists / 'news' broadcasters and publishers stop reporting political news and start becoming cheer leaders of a perspective, a narrative, a political agenda, by their own actions and accord, how can you say that this isn't bad choices, unless, of course, you agree with those narratives, that political agenda that they preach?

I disagree with your premise that journalists are cheerleaders of a perspective. So this is not a bad choice, and it does not follow that I agree with a particular agenda. Perhaps you are not hearing what you'd like to hear, and neither is Trump.

No, the bad choices aren't whether to smack Trump (fine if he deserves it - fair is fair, he volunteered for it), the bad choices are to stop being honest and even handed and factual reporters of politics in favor of becoming participants in politics. This is my heartburn and issue with 'news' and journalism at this point.

Once journalism and 'news' take political sides, and advocate for those political agendas, then they are no longer reporting on politics, they are political participants, and their 'news' coverage becomes political propaganda (advocating for political positions and public policies).

Prior to the 2000 election Fox News stated that it needed to be the voice of the Republican Party. That is what they have been for 18 years now. There is little actual journalism occurring at Fox News these days. That does not mean that press outlets other than FOX, which report news unfavorable to the current Republican are not credible. Trump would have his followers believe that all news unfavorable to himself is FAKE...which it is assuredly not.
The fact that Trump does not get very good press is simply that he does not deserve it. He has been bombastic, divisive, chaotic, disrespectful of his predecessors and the country's allies, not to mention dishonest and short in the morality department. He has chosen people of questionable ethics and experience to serve in high positions. He demands loyalty to himself above all other considerations. Somehow you see the press as irresponsible in reporting what he does? They should be reporting how fantastic he is and not mention what he is actually doing?



Trump receiving the wrath of the 'news' media is because he called them out on it, granted, most frequently identified by criticism of him, but none the less, the issue with a politicized and politically advocating 'news' media remains.

News is not (or shouldn't be) political advocacy, and political advocacy is not the news.

Trump is not receiving "the wrath" of the media, the public is receiving reports of what he does. He does not care for his actions to be reported, he'd rather go to a rally and lie to the obviously oblivious crowds, and declare that the news. Fortunately for America, there is still a very credible functioning press to report the truth.
 
This a bit off topic ( news/journalism).....but when a President starts revoking security clearances from some of the brightest intelligence resources we have,simply bcoz they,in good conscience,speak out against certain policies...that is childish,thin-skinned,dangerous waters.That is why we are seeing so many former military folks voicing their outrage when Trump threatens to revoke just to exact revenge.We need these people's expertise and experience,and we all suffer in the end when we lose these patriot's experience and expertise regarding matters of national security.

Meh.

All the public statements from Brennan, such as Trump being a traitor, not withstanding? The Obama intel agency swap (as he was a political appointee - don't forget) and he believes that the privilege (not a right) should be maintained?

From what has been revealed of the many paths into the various government agencies and branches the dossier from a 'not suitable source' and Brennan is in the middle of that web of deceit.

No, I think it fair that Brennan lost his clearance. Calling him one 'of the brightest intelligence resources' I think is giving a political appointee and political partisan far more credit than he deserves, given that rather mixed results history he's been able to manage.

It should be noted that loss of clearance has exactly no effect on his freedom of speech, which he's exercised to a great extent, to the adoring (for the moment) 'news' (political propaganda) media. Next week or next month, they'll have forgotten all about him and have moved on the next person that criticizes Trump, you know, the media's self-appointed mission in life and all.
 
Meh.

All the public statements from Brennan, such as Trump being a traitor, not withstanding? The Obama intel agency swap (as he was a political appointee - don't forget) and he believes that the privilege (not a right) should be maintained?

From what has been revealed of the many paths into the various government agencies and branches the dossier from a 'not suitable source' and Brennan is in the middle of that web of deceit.

No, I think it fair that Brennan lost his clearance. Calling him one 'of the brightest intelligence resources' I think is giving a political appointee and political partisan far more credit than he deserves, given that rather mixed results history he's been able to manage.

It should be noted that loss of clearance has exactly no effect on his freedom of speech, which he's exercised to a great extent, to the adoring (for the moment) 'news' (political propaganda) media. Next week or next month, they'll have forgotten all about him and have moved on the next person that criticizes Trump, you know, the media's self-appointed mission in life and all.

Brennan isn't the only one on the list...What about Clapper,as well as many of the others on the list?...Do you have 'dirt' on all of those on 'the list?'...my guess is no...feel free to correct me if indeed,you can go name by name on 'the list' and present 'good cause' as to why their security clearances should be revoked.
 
I disagree with your premise that journalists are cheerleaders of a perspective.

So you don't believe that the 'news' media is pushing their favored political narratives? Their favored political agenda?
Think back to how over heated the media has driven, and kept alive, Trump campaign / Russian collusion without any real evidence.
Think back how the media covered various racist riots.
Think as to their editorial decisions found it acceptable to report 'news' with a single anonymous source, and how often they did.

You still think that the 'news' / journalists are reporting facts about politics? Or that they have become participants, advocates, in their political reporting?

Are YOU sure that you are not just falling for confirmation bias?

All this 'reporting' thinly disused as 'news' but is really political and political narrative a good choice?

Sorry, but I don't think so. It's still a free country (at least until the SJW's and excessive political correct stop out any opposing viewpoints and independent thoughts).

So this is not a bad choice, and it does not follow that I agree with a particular agenda. Perhaps you are not hearing what you'd like to hear, and neither is Trump.



Prior to the 2000 election Fox News stated that it needed to be the voice of the Republican Party. That is what they have been for 18 years now. There is little actual journalism occurring at Fox News these days. That does not mean that press outlets other than FOX, which report news unfavorable to the current Republican are not credible. Trump would have his followers believe that all news unfavorable to himself is FAKE...which it is assuredly not.
The fact that Trump does not get very good press is simply that he does not deserve it. He has been bombastic, divisive, chaotic, disrespectful of his predecessors and the country's allies, not to mention dishonest and short in the morality department. He has chosen people of questionable ethics and experience to serve in high positions. He demands loyalty to himself above all other considerations. Somehow you see the press as irresponsible in reporting what he does? They should be reporting how fantastic he is and not mention what he is actually doing?

There's a difference between factual political reporting and pushing the favored narratives and pushing the favored political agenda. I'll admit that it's harder to see if it's a case of confirmation bias, but step outside yourself and take a long hard look.

Trump is not receiving "the wrath" of the media, the public is receiving reports of what he does. He does not care for his actions to be reported, he'd rather go to a rally and lie to the obviously oblivious crowds, and declare that the news. Fortunately for America, there is still a very credible functioning press to report the truth.

Oh BS. When 90% of the reporting is negative, when anything anti-Trump leads, and all other is left behind, when 300 newspapers in unison and in coordination come out of anti-Trump editorials all on the same day, you still maintain that 'it's only the truth'? Seriously?
 
Brennan isn't the only one on the list...What about Clapper,as well as many of the others on the list?...Do you have 'dirt' on all of those on 'the list?'...my guess is no...feel free to correct me if indeed,you can go name by name on 'the list' and present 'good cause' as to why their security clearances should be revoked.

So far, no actions as to clearance has been made to anyone beyond Brennan. I guess we'll see.

If there was an 'intel swamp', it would certainly contains these political appointees, wouldn't it?
 
Brennan isn't the only one on the list...What about Clapper,as well as many of the others on the list?...Do you have 'dirt' on all of those on 'the list?'...my guess is no...feel free to correct me if indeed,you can go name by name on 'the list' and present 'good cause' as to why their security clearances should be revoked.

p.s. Let's not forget what the leader of SEAL TEAM 6 lashed out about trump,and how he has embarrassed,humilated,and disgraced our nation in front of the entire civilized world and beyond.Are you going to show disrespect to this true American Patriot and hero who helped take out Bin Laden under Obama's watch?
 
I think if you would compare John Brennan to Swampy's statements. You'll find that Mr. Swampy is 1000X more erratic than John Brennan. Tweets, speeches, actions. It doesn't matter. It should be clear to everyone by now that everything the President does is a calculated erratic mess, which is not a normal way to be ruling the country.

Anyone who votes no is a class-A hypocrite.

As per below the statement of Brennan's security clearance being revoked:



Trump revokes security clearance for former CIA Director Brennan, and has 9 more critics in his sights


In a normal world there would be impeachment papers being drawn up right now. Note the question is Should he be impeached, not will he be.

I say we impeach him when he starts running from imaginary sniper fire.:lamo:lamo
 
So far, no actions as to clearance has been made to anyone beyond Brennan. I guess we'll see.

If there was an 'intel swamp', it would certainly contains these political appointees, wouldn't it?

would you like to make a friendly wager that other's on 'the list' will have their clearances revoked?...I'll give you much better odds than Vegas will.
 
So you don't believe that the 'news' media is pushing their favored political narratives? Their favored political agenda?
Think back to how over heated the media has driven, and kept alive, Trump campaign / Russian collusion without any real evidence.
Think back how the media covered various racist riots.
Think as to their editorial decisions found it acceptable to report 'news' with a single anonymous source, and how often they did.

You still think that the 'news' / journalists are reporting facts about politics? Or that they have become participants, advocates, in their political reporting?

Are YOU sure that you are not just falling for confirmation bias?

All this 'reporting' thinly disused as 'news' but is really political and political narrative a good choice?

Sorry, but I don't think so. It's still a free country (at least until the SJW's and excessive political correct stop out any opposing viewpoints and independent thoughts).



There's a difference between factual political reporting and pushing the favored narratives and pushing the favored political agenda. I'll admit that it's harder to see if it's a case of confirmation bias, but step outside yourself and take a long hard look.



Oh BS. When 90% of the reporting is negative, when anything anti-Trump leads, and all other is left behind, when 300 newspapers in unison and in coordination come out of anti-Trump editorials all on the same day, you still maintain that 'it's only the truth'? Seriously?

Seriously, I do. Sad as it might be to his supporters there is little positive to say. Even in the situations that are covered live, under his complete control to garner good press he seriously ****s it up. As far as the Russia story...I think there is plenty of evidence. Just how many campaign operatives with close ties to Moscow does one need to employ in order to be under suspicion? Racist riots? A racist killed a woman at their rally. That was not news?
The press has long used anonymous sources...it is how they have sources. Trump has tried to deflect his own guilt by creating this talking point.

So I imagine we agree on zilch. :shrug:
 
Seriously, I do. Sad as it might be to his supporters there is little positive to say. Even in the situations that are covered live, under his complete control to garner good press he seriously ****s it up. As far as the Russia story...I think there is plenty of evidence. Just how many campaign operatives with close ties to Moscow does one need to employ in order to be under suspicion? Racist riots? A racist killed a woman at their rally. That was not news?
The press has long used anonymous sources...it is how they have sources. Trump has tried to deflect his own guilt by creating this talking point.

I think you are missing allot of positive things that are in fact occurring, perhaps by buying too much into the media's narratives, for example that he's already guilty of something (didn't know that a court had already decided this, even with a distinct lack of evidence to support it, have a reference?)

Yes, there are controversies coming from the the administration, just as there are from every administration (some invented, some contrived, and some not), but this time certainly with media piling on added bile, vitriol and fauxrage, as compared to meek responses to the same for the last administration. The inconsistency, double standards and hypocrisy are just astounding. All this because the media hated Trump before the word 'go', held up for pile on ridicule the entire campaign (some fair, most not) and only multiplied with Hillary's failing campaign and ensuing loss. The media evolved from scorning to now their self-appointed 'destroy Trump at any cost' mission, all the while damaging what little credibility they have left, as their credibility poll results would attest to.

There is no, and has never been, a president that made everyone happy all the time. This also applies to Trump.

There is good Trump, which advances the policies and agenda on which he campaigned and on which he was elected, and then there's bad Trump, who gets into pointless stupid Twitter slap fights in which he comes off as un-presidential, and doesn't advance the agenda. This is factually based. What isn't factually based is the every so typical and frequent 'all Trump all bad all the time' downright dishonest portrayal that the 'news' / journalists are shouting into their media megaphone all the time.

So I imagine we agree on zilch. :shrug:

Yeah, I imagine so. Seems like I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt, to consider both the good and the bad, and seems you can't get past the bad. :shrug:
 
would you like to make a friendly wager that other's on 'the list' will have their clearances revoked?...I'll give you much better odds than Vegas will.

Sorry, but I don't gamble.

One argument that goes to justify Brennan's security clearance revocation.

Brennan, by contrast, speaks out in a nod-and-a-wink manner, the undercurrent of which is that if he could only tell you the secrets he knows, you’d demand Trump’s impeachment forthwith. (See, e.g., tweets here, here, and here.) Indeed, “undercurrent” is probably the wrong word: Brennan, after all, has expressly asserted that our “treasonous” president is “wholly in the pocket of Putin” and has “exceed[ed] the threshold of ‘high crimes and misdemeanors.’”

Such demagoguery would be beneath any former CIA director, but it is especially indecorous in Brennan’s situation. There are ongoing investigations and trials. Brennan’s own role in the investigation of the Trump campaign is currently under scrutiny, along with such questions as whether the Obama administration put the nation’s law-enforcement and intelligence apparatus in the service of the Clinton campaign, and why an unverified dossier (a Clinton-campaign opposition-research project) was presented to the FISA court in order to obtain surveillance warrants against an American citizen. Until these probes have run their course, Brennan should resist the urge to comment, especially in ways that implicate his knowledge of classified matters. (So should the president, but that’s another story.)

Quite apart from the ongoing investigations, there is considerable evidence that intelligence was rampantly politicized on Brennan’s watch as CIA director and, before that, Obama’s homeland-security adviser.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/08/john-brennan-security-clearance-revocation-justified/

Politicization of intelligence is never a good thing, ever.

Even Clapper, Obama's DNI has voiced that Brennan has crossed the line.

Former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper said Sunday that he thinks former CIA Director John Brennan's rhetoric is becoming an issue "in and of itself."

"John and his rhetoric have become an issue in and of itself," Clapper said on CNN's "State of the Union." "John is subtle like a freight train and he’s gonna say what’s on his mind."

Clapper's comments came in response to an op-ed penned by Brennan in The New York Times this week, in which he wrote that President Trumpcolluded with Russia during the 2016 election.

Clapper said he empathized with Brennan, but voiced concerns for Brennan's fiery rhetoric toward Trump and his administration.
"I think that the common denominator among all of us [in the intelligence community] that have been speaking up … is genuine concern about the jeopardy and threats to our institutions," Clapper said.

http://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-...hetoric-is-becoming-an-issue-in-and-of-itself

Clapper is on the list, yet his being more reasonable and more subdued than Brennan, I rather doubt that he's going to lose his security clearance, but you can never tell for sure until it either happens or it doesn't.
 
I think you are missing allot of positive things that are in fact occurring, perhaps by buying too much into the media's narratives, for example that he's already guilty of something (didn't know that a court had already decided this, even with a distinct lack of evidence to support it, have a reference?)

Yes, there are controversies coming from the the administration, just as there are from every administration (some invented, some contrived, and some not), but this time certainly with media piling on added bile, vitriol and fauxrage, as compared to meek responses to the same for the last administration. The inconsistency, double standards and hypocrisy are just astounding. All this because the media hated Trump before the word 'go', held up for pile on ridicule the entire campaign (some fair, most not) and only multiplied with Hillary's failing campaign and ensuing loss. The media evolved from scorning to now their self-appointed 'destroy Trump at any cost' mission, all the while damaging what little credibility they have left, as their credibility poll results would attest to.

There is no, and has never been, a president that made everyone happy all the time. This also applies to Trump.

There is good Trump, which advances the policies and agenda on which he campaigned and on which he was elected, and then there's bad Trump, who gets into pointless stupid Twitter slap fights in which he comes off as un-presidential, and doesn't advance the agenda. This is factually based. What isn't factually based is the every so typical and frequent 'all Trump all bad all the time' downright dishonest portrayal that the 'news' / journalists are shouting into their media megaphone all the time.



Yeah, I imagine so. Seems like I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt, to consider both the good and the bad, and seems you can't get past the bad. :shrug:

I see that you give the benefit of the doubt to Trump's good and bad, but miss where you are giving the media the benefit of the doubt. ??

Fact is Trump's behavior throughout his long career cast him in a bad light from the get go. He had laundered money in his casinos, declared bankruptcy several times leaving creditors holding the bag, has brought more legal actions against individuals (3500) than any other known person, has cheated on 3 wives, liked young models, and behaved like a buffoon throughout the campaign. If he wanted some good press (which I don't believe he wanted for a moment) he could have tried to behave with some level of decorum. No, the whole carnival act sells better if he can be a victim of the Terrible Awful Journalists reporting the Truth. He's not a victim...he's calling the shots. Please do not congratulate yourself for some perceived fairness that is not really there at all.
 
Sorry, but I don't gamble.

One argument that goes to justify Brennan's security clearance revocation.



Politicization of intelligence is never a good thing, ever.

Even Clapper, Obama's DNI has voiced that Brennan has crossed the line.



Clapper is on the list, yet his being more reasonable and more subdued than Brennan, I rather doubt that he's going to lose his security clearance, but you can never tell for sure until it either happens or it doesn't.

I was watching Clapper when he stated he agreed w/Brennan for the most part,altho he did state they had very different 'styles of delivery.'..( Clapper being more more calm and collected when calling out Trump's behavior and actions.)
 
I was watching Clapper when he stated he agreed w/Brennan for the most part,altho he did state they had very different 'styles of delivery.'..( Clapper being more more calm and collected when calling out Trump's behavior and actions.)

True, being more more calm and collected does lend itself to garnering more credibility.

Not sure, but I don't think Clapper is in the middle of a 'politicization of intel services' or the pushing forward of a dossier from an 'unsuitable source' like Brennan is either.

Makes one wonder if Brennan's strategy is create a controversy with Trump, then blame anything that he might be accused of as stemming from that controversy.
 
I see that you give the benefit of the doubt to Trump's good and bad, but miss where you are giving the media the benefit of the doubt. ??

There is no doubt left to give the media, as they've been steadily getting worse of the last 10 to 20 years, and have had plenty of time to better their behavior, instead, they are doubling down and getting even worse faster. How do you give someone, or something, the benefit of the doubt when they are bound and determined only to get worse? That makes no sense.

Fact is Trump's behavior throughout his long career cast him in a bad light from the get go. He had laundered money in his casinos, declared bankruptcy several times leaving creditors holding the bag, has brought more legal actions against individuals (3500) than any other known person, has cheated on 3 wives, liked young models, and behaved like a buffoon throughout the campaign. If he wanted some good press (which I don't believe he wanted for a moment) he could have tried to behave with some level of decorum. No, the whole carnival act sells better if he can be a victim of the Terrible Awful Journalists reporting the Truth. He's not a victim...he's calling the shots. Please do not congratulate yourself for some perceived fairness that is not really there at all.

Meh. Seems we agree on zilch. :shrug:
 
True, being more more calm and collected does lend itself to garnering more credibility.

Not sure, but I don't think Clapper is in the middle of a 'politicization of intel services' or the pushing forward of a dossier from an 'unsuitable source' like Brennan is either.

Makes one wonder if Brennan's strategy is create a controversy with Trump, then blame anything that he might be accused of as stemming from that controversy.

Clapper stated he was expecting to quietly retire 'at his advanced age'..He sated he only became a pundit because as a true American Patriot,he felt obligated to call Trump out for the POS he is,as he loves this country.Trump only loves himself.
 
Clapper stated he was expecting to quietly retire 'at his advanced age'..He sated he only became a pundit because as a true American Patriot,he felt obligated to call Trump out for the POS he is,as he loves this country.Trump only loves himself.

Clapper is free to believe what he wants, as well as say what he wants.

All I'll say is that it's rather difficult and risky to pretend to know what's in another person's heart.
 
Clapper is free to believe what he wants, as well as say what he wants.

All I'll say is that it's rather difficult and risky to pretend to know what's in another person's heart.

A little common sense can go a long way.
 
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