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Should the leader of the democratic party apologize to Gen. Petraeus?

Should the leader of the democratic party apologize to Gen. Petraeus?

  • Yes

    Votes: 14 37.8%
  • No

    Votes: 19 51.4%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 2 5.4%
  • Not Sure

    Votes: 2 5.4%

  • Total voters
    37
Then please explain to me why the Democratically elected representative government hasn't asked us to leave? If I've said it once I've said it a million times, "the only poll that matters is the one on election day."
What a nice try at the old cut and run eh Trajan? I especially loved how you pretended that the Iraqi government is functioning in any way whatsoever! :rofl

Tell us all about the great work the Iraqi Parliament has done...name 5 bills they passed of any value since their inception.

The Iraqi government combined with the "SURGE" are doing such a great job that the average Iraqi in Baghdad has all of three hours electricity every day! WOW that's good governing and good surging...
 
What a nice try at the old cut and run eh Trajan? I especially loved how you pretended that the Iraqi government is functioning in any way whatsoever! :rofl

Tell us all about the great work the Iraqi Parliament has done...name 5 bills they passed of any value since their inception.

The Iraqi government combined with the "SURGE" are doing such a great job that the average Iraqi in Baghdad has all of three hours electricity every day! WOW that's good governing and good surging...


A) Electrical production and consumption are above pre-war levels.

B) Do you not believe in representative Democracy? If so then why have the Democratically elected government of Iraq asked us to leave if your claims are true?
 
How was it a partisan bill if Moveon isn't the Democrat party?

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How was it a partisan bill if Moveon isn't the Democrat party?
MoveOn contributed about $21 million of the $600 million the Democratic Party claimed in 2006. How is a fund raising company that contributed 3% of the total party funds control the party?
 
MoveOn contributed about $21 million of the $600 million the Democratic Party claimed in 2006. How is a fund raising company that contributed 3% of the total party funds control the party?

A) Moveon is the largest fundraiser on the left.

B) If they aren't running things then why did the DemocRAT party defeat the Senate bill denouncing the ad?
 
No presence is even better.:shock:

Why? Why would giving up a strategic position with a friendly democrat Iraq be worse than no presence and an Iraq controlled by radical Islamics or even Iran?
 
B) If they aren't running things then why did the DemocRAT party defeat the Senate bill denouncing the ad?

The Senate actually wasted time in trying to pass a bill to denounce the ad? Do we really need a bill to show how pathetic and tasteless the ad was? Its so good to know the government has its priorities straight.
 
MoveOn contributed about $21 million of the $600 million the Democratic Party claimed in 2006. How is a fund raising company that contributed 3% of the total party funds control the party?

Why do you keep referring to it as a "company" when it is not and doesn't come under the same laws as companies do when it comes to campaign donations?

The MoveOn family of organizations is made up of a couple of different pieces. MoveOn.org Civic Action, a 501(c)(4) nonprofit organization, formerly known just as MoveOn.org, primarily focuses on education and advocacy on important national issues. MoveOn.org Political Action, a federal PAC, formerly known as MoveOn PAC, mobilizes people across the country to fight important battles in Congress and help elect candidates who reflect our values. Both organizations are entirely funded by individuals.
moveon.org

They are not a contractor, they do not sell anything or provide a service for fee. They are a PAC under the law.

So what is you little ploy referring to them as a "company" that just collects some money and transfers it on behave of the donors to the recipients? Why the need to try an minimalize who they are and what they do?
 
The Senate actually wasted time in trying to pass a bill to denounce the ad? Do we really need a bill to show how pathetic and tasteless the ad was? Its so good to know the government has its priorities straight.

They would have denounced the ad had it not been for the DemocRAT Senators. Sorry but a simple yay nay vote wouldn't have taken very much time, if the Dems didn't support the ad then they would have supported the resolution condemning it they did not support the bill because they do not condemn the ad.
 
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The Senate actually wasted time in trying to pass a bill to denounce the ad?

Actually it was their duty to do so.

Do we really need a bill to show how pathetic and tasteless the ad was?

Yes the people should show their distain through their elected representatives who should stand up for our military when they are so outrageously attacked in public.

Its so good to know the government has its priorities straight.

Since it is such a simple matter to do I find your concern less than convincing.
 
A) Electrical production and consumption are above pre-war levels.
Not true at all. You're either ignorant of the truth or lying...which is it?

QUALITY OF LIFE INDICATORS

Iraqis Displaced Inside Iraq, by Iraq War, as of May 2007 - 2,135,000

Iraqi Refugees in Syria & Jordan - 1.3 million to 1.75 million

Iraqi Unemployment Rate - 27 to 60%, where curfew not in effect

Consumer Price Inflation in 2006 - 50%

Iraqi Children Suffering from Chronic Malnutrition - 28% in June 2007 (Per CNN.com, July 30, 2007)

Percent of professionals who have left Iraq since 2003 - 40%

Iraqi Physicians Before 2003 Invasion - 34,000

Iraqi Physicians Who Have Left Iraq Since 2005 Invasion - 12,000

Iraqi Physicians Murdered Since 2003 Invasion - 2,000

Average Daily Hours Iraqi Homes Have Electricity - 1 to 2 hours, per Ryan Crocker, U.S. Ambassador to Iraq (Per Los Angeles Times, July 27, 2007)

Average Daily Hours Iraqi Homes Have Electricity - 10.9 in May 2007

Average Daily Hours Baghdad Homes Have Electricity - 5.6 in May 2007

Pre-War Daily Hours Baghdad Homes Have Electricity - 16 to 24


Number of Iraqi Homes Connected to Sewer Systems - 37%

Iraqis without access to adequate water supplies - 70% (Per CNN.com, July 30, 2007)

Water Treatment Plants Rehabilitated - 22%
Source: Iraq War Results & Statistics as of Sept 12, 2007

Now here's a NY Times story from Dec. 2006 showing what you're writing is wrong, untrue, a fabrication, a falsehood.
Last week even the official United States State Department figures, which many Iraqis contend lean toward the optimistic side, said there was an average of 6.6 hours of electricity per day in Baghdad and 8.9 hours nationwide.

Before the war, Baghdad had 16 to 24 hours of power and the rest of Iraq 4 to 8 hours, according to the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction, an independent United States federal office. While the redistribution has always been cast by American officials as a deliberate reversal of Saddam Hussein-era inequities,
Source: Iraq Insurgents Starve Capital of Electricity - New York Times

Where's your proof of what you're claiming?

Recall that my assertion is about BAGHDAD....Put up your facts now or run away with your tail between your legs again.
 
Since it is such a simple matter to do I find your concern less than convincing.

Since you and the rest of the right wingers here have called me a communist, traitor, pro-illegal, anti-family and every other right wing term you concern for my concern is moot point.
 
Why? Why would giving up a strategic position with a friendly democrat Iraq be worse than no presence and an Iraq controlled by radical Islamics or even Iran?

"Strategic postion"? Are you kidding? Al qaeda is our biggest threat. Do you mean that our strategy is to recruit as many people for al qaeda as we can? That is what us being in Iraq is doing. Quit pretending that Iraq is our border and our enemies must cross through Iraq to get to America. It's ludicrous. Iraq can't make us safer. Iraq has been weakening us. It has weakened our military, our economy, and most importantly, our credibility. This debachle is exactly what is wrong with pre-emptively invading a country unilaterally. It is stunning that people actually want to compound this with talk about Iran.

Keep holding your breath for that "friendly democrat Iraq".
 
"Strategic postion"?

DUH! If you can't even agree on the strategic significance of Iraq in the Persian Gulf region I fear you are just to uninformed on the situation there.

Are you kidding? Al qaeda is our biggest threat.

It is part of our biggest threat, so what?

Do you mean that our strategy is to recruit as many people for al qaeda as we can? That is what us being in Iraq is doing.

What our presense in Iraq is doing is killing them faster than they can send them in and turning the Iraqi's against them. As we want.

Quit pretending that Iraq is our border

Quit making such ludicrous statements.

Iraq can't make us safer. Iraq has been weakening us.

It can make us a lot less safer if we do not succeed there, it will be a weakening we most likely will never overcome.

It has weakened our military, our economy, and most importantly, our credibility.

Any war test and stretches your military but we are not broken and in better shape than our enemies. Our economy is as strong as it has ever been if not stronger in spite of the war, and our credibility is only hampered by the Democrats and leftest here who speak of our country and it's military leaders with such disdain.

This debachle is exactly what is wrong with pre-emptively invading a country unilaterally.

Since we did neither your point is moot. It's tired old propaganda that know one buys anymore.

It is stunning that people actually want to compound this with talk about Iran.

And your solution to Iran is what? They see us as weak and ready to surrender in Iraq, what do you think they will do in response and what should our response be?

Keep holding your breath for that "friendly democrat Iraq".

And if we don't succeed, if we are defeated, what then?
 
Originally Posted by Trajan Octavian Titus
Then please explain to me why the Democratically elected representative government hasn't asked us to leave?
They already did!

They told us, "...we could leave anytime."
 
Not true at all. You're either ignorant of the truth or lying...which is it?


Source: Iraq War Results & Statistics as of Sept 12, 2007

Now here's a NY Times story from Dec. 2006 showing what you're writing is wrong, untrue, a fabrication, a falsehood.

Source: Iraq Insurgents Starve Capital of Electricity - New York Times

Where's your proof of what you're claiming?

Recall that my assertion is about BAGHDAD....Put up your facts now or run away with your tail between your legs again.

I'm talking about nation wide, ofcourse Baghdad has less electricity because now electricity is evenly distributed to the whole of Iraq rather than to the Sunni minority.

Electricity Consumption
Year Data Source Value Notes
2004 World Factbook (2005) 33.70 TWh -
2003 U.S. DOE (2005) 13.67 TWh (provisional)
2002 U.S. DOE (2005) 27.29 TWh -
2002 IEA (2005) 29.33 TWh -
2001 U.S. DOE (2005) 27.50 TWh -
2001 IEA (2004) 34.93 TWh -
2001 World Factbook (2004) 33.49 TWh -
2000 U.S. DOE (2005) 27.20 TWh

http://www.iaea.org/inis/aws/eedrb/data/IQ-elc.html
According to the Iraqi Electricity Minister Mohsen Shalash:

"Now electricity has reached a record after we broke 5,350 megawatts a few days ago for the first time since the war."

This is well above the pre-war levels and the USAID expects the electrical output to reach 6,000 MW within the year.

According to the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) the pre-war electricty output in 2002 was only 4,400 MW. And it was only Baghdad that had continous power, because Saddam was allowing the the basic services to fall into disrepair in order to control the Iraqi populace through strict controls over even the most basic necessities of life.


In 2002 Baghdad had access to electricity on a near continuous basis while the rest of Iraq was limited to 3 to 6 hours daily. The U.S. government has made significant progress in improving electricity supply in Iraq and distributing it more equitably throughout the country. USAID has added over 1490 MW of new or rehabilitated capacity to the electrical grid.

http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/accomplish...ectricity.html

Run along now plenty more lies of omission to distribute to the uninformed masses.
 
Originally posted by TOT:
That's not the same as asking us to leave there buddy, that was a response to the DemocRAT parties insults.
It's exactly the same!

Deal with it, junior!
 
?What our presense in Iraq is doing is killing them faster than they can send them in and turning the Iraqi's against them. As we want.
BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT! BULLSHIT! Prove in nou ncertain terms that we're killing more terrorists in Iraq than we're creating! STOP LYING!
It can make us a lot less safer if we do not succeed there, it will be a weakening we most likely will never overcome.
OOOOOOO...The old standard Republican scare tactic! Sorry Bub but that tired old song is only believed by the less than 30% of Americans who somehow believe anything that Bush tells them, right Stinger?
Our economy is as strong as it has ever been if not stronger in spite of the war, and our credibility is only hampered by the Democrats and leftest here who speak of our country and it's military leaders with such disdain.
Really? Tell that to the home builders and sellers and their mortgage brokers and the Fed which is going to lower the interest rate this week in order to try to revitalize a very weak economy! Why must you lie?
And if we don't succeed, if we are defeated, what then?
Really? Defeated? By whom and how and where? Do you sleep with a gun? Do you lock your bedroom doors before you go to sleep? How about your bathroom? Do you keep a gun there too in case we are defeated?
 
I'm talking about nation wide, ofcourse Baghdad has less electricity because now electricity is evenly distributed to the whole of Iraq rather than to the Sunni minority.

Run along now plenty more lies of omission to distribute to the uninformed masses.
:rofl Your using stats from 2004 before the insurgency advanced to where it has today! I used stats from last month! I knew you would do that because you can't handle the truth, can't accept that you're wrong and that you're spreading lies.

I also knew you would try to weasel away from my BAGHDAD claim because that's who you are. You're twisting my point, my truths to serve your lies but the only people who believe your bullshit are the Gang Of Five which leaves the rest of us shaking our heads at your intense inability to be a man and deal with the truth...
 
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