• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Should the 2A be repealed?

Repeal the 2A?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.
What I find amusing is that every right-winger preaches freedom and 'but THE CONSTITUTION!".... except when they have to shit on freedom or the Constitution because of their actual agenda.

No, you just don't believe in protected rights afforded by the US constitution.
Go sell your my way or the highway way of life to the commies.
 
If yes, tell us why and what should replace it (if anything) and any other caveats to your answer.

If no, tell us why and any other caveats you have to your answer.
yep. It's nothing but a fossilized relic that causes a hell of a lot more trouble than it's worth. Let the legislative branch either congressional or state level decide gun policy and respond to constituent pressures on this issue like any other. Take a figurative 'white out' stick out of the desk drawer and just make every word of it disappear.
 
No, you just don't believe in protected rights afforded by the US constitution.
Go sell your my way or the highway way of life to the commies.

Project much? Your picks in the Supreme Court are currently showing you up much respect they have for the Constitution. And speaking of 'my way or the highway', that's exactly what your variant of conservatism preaches.
 
that's non-responsive. He asked what would be another anti gunner's argument IF, i repeat IF, the second amendment merely said what he stated

Except it doesn't, does it?
 
Well, for one, ****ing read the 2nd Amendment. We know that conservatives can spin Jesus himself into a right-wing white guy who punches down on the poor. It's not a surprise that they mangle the 2nd Amendment to fit their actual goals.
It's not true that gun rights advocates mangle the Second Amendment. We just interpret it correctly. There are two clauses in the Second Amendment, the prefatory clause and the objective clause:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The prefatory clause, "A well regulated militia, being necessary for the security of a free state" is crystal clear. The authors thought a properly functioning militia was necessary for the security of a free state. Simple as that. And in order for such a militia to exist it's necessary for the civilian populace to be armed, so they added the operative clause "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".

Please note that this interpretation of the prefatory clause relies on the prefatory clause, the whole prefatory clause and nothing but the prefatory clause. No taking words like "militia" or "well regulated" out of context and spinning elaborate explanations how the prefatory clause goes against grammar, history and common sense to magically change the meaning of the operative clause. It can't. It's an absolute clause (aka absolute phrase) and absolute clauses add background to the operative clause but do NOT limit or change their meaning. (for more on the grammar of absolute clauses, see this post).

So if you disagree, please point out exactly where the "mangling" is taking place. And provide an equally detailed explanation of your interpretation.
 
So you don't believe in protected rights.

How "Independent" of you....
I don't believe in guns. Unfortunately, that doesn't make them go away.
 
yep. It's nothing but a fossilized relic that causes a hell of a lot more trouble than it's worth. Let the legislative branch either congressional or state level decide gun policy and respond to constituent pressures on this issue like any other. Take a figurative 'white out' stick out of the desk drawer and just make every word of it disappear.
why is it that every single person who wants to get rid of the right to keep and bear arms is a big government fan boy?
 
New Zealand and Australia are currently demonstrating the need for a Second Amendment in their societies.
Advocating for them to shoot up their government for enforcing Covid restrictions? How patriotic!
 
Well, for one, ****ing read the 2nd Amendment. We know that conservatives can spin Jesus himself into a right-wing white guy who punches down on the poor. It's not a surprise that they mangle the 2nd Amendment to fit their actual goals.

It's not conservatives, it's the 2A and the SCOTUS.

2A, USC

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

" In the 2008 case District of Columbia v. Heller, the Supreme Court held that the "Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home."

Link to the Opinion and analysis at Law.cornell.edu

 
why is it that every single person who wants to get rid of the right to keep and bear arms is a big government fan boy?
That's because 'big govt fanboys' are also educated, and educated people know how silly every gun killer apologist is, who claims that gun 'rights' have anything to do with the running of a secure confident democratic republic. We just tend to be a smarter group of people as a general rule. :sneaky:
 
That's because 'big govt fanboys' are also educated, and educated people know how silly every gun killer apologist is, who claims that gun 'rights' have anything to do with the running of a secure confident democratic republic.
I am better educated than almost every anti gun poster on this board and most of the anti gun posters are rather uneducated when it comes to gun laws and gun use.
 
I don't believe in socialism, having guns keeps it in check
BINGO!! TurtleDude for the win! That's what really bothers the left, fear that their socialist takeover will be met with force. Because we all know that even if guns are completely outlawed the first time a black man shoots someone, especially a white man, or even a newborn white infant, the entire left will say it was 100% justified and find 100 reasons to pardon him, even erect a statue in his honor. Only those who cherish the US Constitution shouldn't have guns. All the rest can, and can use them as they wish without impunity.
 
I am better educated than almost every anti gun poster on this board and most of the anti gun posters are rather uneducated when it comes to gun laws and gun use.
I am sure you can find the time to 'educate' your state legislator which is exactly where your arguments belong. They are supposed to handle policy issues and that is exactly where this discussion belongs.

you have the added advantage because the NRA can afford to buy you politicians who can't follow the debate.
 
I am sure you can find the time to 'educate' your state legislator which is exactly where your arguments belong. They are supposed to handle policy issues and that is exactly where this discussion belongs.
Unless you are proposing a "Amendment" to edit or change the 2A, that won't happen.

The last Amendment was 1992 addressing Congressional Compensation, the only Amendment to be eliminated was done via the 21st Amendment in 1953 repealing prohibition.

An amendment may be proposed by a two-thirds vote of both Houses of Congress, or, if two-thirds of the States request one, by a convention called for that purpose. The amendment must then be ratified by three-fourths of the State legislatures, or three-fourths of conventions called in each State for ratification.

Do you really see that happening in the case of the 2A?
 
I am sure you can find the time to 'educate' your state legislator which is exactly where your arguments belong. They are supposed to handle policy issues and that is exactly where this discussion belongs.

you have the added advantage because the NRA can afford to buy you politicians who can't follow the debate.
what is the debate? big government liberals hate the fact that the NRA opposed Leftwing schemes where the left wants to cover its lack of desire to punish real criminals with "gun control" and now gun control is mainly pushed to punish the NRA and likeminded gun owners?
 
It's not conservatives, it's the 2A and the SCOTUS.

2A, USC

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

" In the 2008 case District of Columbia v. Heller, the Supreme Court held that the "Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home."

Link to the Opinion and analysis at Law.cornell.edu


Do you understand the Supreme Court at all?

Scalia, J., delivered the opinion of the Court, in which Roberts, C. J., and Kennedy, Thomas, and Alito, JJ., joined. Stevens, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which Souter, Ginsburg, and Breyer, JJ., joined. Breyer, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which Stevens, Souter, and Ginsburg, JJ., joined.
 
It's not true that gun rights advocates mangle the Second Amendment. We just interpret it correctly.

Right. Just as you're about to interpret abortion correctly. There's no POLITICAL or IDEOLOGICAL agenda, you're just originalists.

**** your judicial activism.
 
Do you understand the Supreme Court at all?

Scalia, J., delivered the opinion of the Court, in which Roberts, C. J., and Kennedy, Thomas, and Alito, JJ., joined. Stevens, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which Souter, Ginsburg, and Breyer, JJ., joined. Breyer, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which Stevens, Souter, and Ginsburg, JJ., joined.
yeah socialist justices ignore the obvious intent of the second
 
Suppose the 2A read, "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." If that were the text, would you agree that all gun control laws are unconstitutional?
I'd still, as the Supreme Court justice that I am, put it in the context of the day. I'd still believe that the intended definition of "arms" were the armaments generally consistent with the capabilities of armaments of that day, and not on a sliding scale so that machine guns, cannons, tanks, rifle-projected nuclear bombs. And there still could be/would be be limits on where exactly they could be "beared," like not on airplanes, not in hospital nurseries, not in private domiciles or businesses that posted against, not in courts of law, or police stations, etc. But, the basic answer to your question, without the militia wording, I would have to rule that the rights of the amendment, whatever they are, would extend to every person in the USA, with very few people excluded (criminals, minors, the insane, ...).
 
I am better educated than almost every anti gun poster on this board and most of the anti gun posters are rather uneducated when it comes to gun laws and gun use.

You're better educated, just wrong and misinformed about basically everything. Which means your education is worth exactly a pile of shit.
 
You're better educated, just wrong and misinformed about basically everything. Which means your education is worth exactly a pile of shit.
except every supreme court case and all leading legal scholar line up on my side and not that of the bannerrhoids or the collectivists. I also know that an AR 15 is not a "weapon of war" nor an "assault rifle" despite the idiotic braying of the bannerrhoid left
 
Do you understand the Supreme Court at all?

Scalia, J., delivered the opinion of the Court, in which Roberts, C. J., and Kennedy, Thomas, and Alito, JJ., joined. Stevens, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which Souter, Ginsburg, and Breyer, JJ., joined. Breyer, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which Stevens, Souter, and Ginsburg, JJ., joined

Do you understand the Supreme Court at all?

Scalia, J., delivered the opinion of the Court, in which Roberts, C. J., and Kennedy, Thomas, and Alito, JJ., joined. Stevens, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which Souter, Ginsburg, and Breyer, JJ., joined. Breyer, J., filed a dissenting opinion, in which Stevens, Souter, and Ginsburg, JJ., joined.
The ruling stands despite the fact that thr progressive opinions against.

Yes i do understand how the court works, do you?

Its the ruling that matters, not the opinions against.
 
except every supreme court case and all leading legal scholar line up on my side and not that of the bannerrhoids or the collectivists. I also know that an AR 15 is not a "weapon of war" nor an "assault rifle" despite the idiotic braying of the bannerrhoid left

The Supreme Court is a vehicle for the right-wing agenda, and the 'leading legal scholars' you cite are undoubtedly federalist flunkies.
 
Back
Top Bottom