Should Sante Fe shooters father be punished?

[trixare4kids]

Dimitrios Pagourtzis' father didn't secure his legally owned guns that were used in the Sante Fe school shooting. Should he face prison time because of this, and if so, how long?

No.

Since Pagourtzis is seventeen-years-old, his father appears to be immune to prosecution under the so-called negligent storage law, which holds the parents of children who commit crimes with their firearms liable in fourteen states. Texas is one of those states, but it defines a child shooter as sixteen years of age or younger.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/this-is-a-dream-i-cant-wake-up-from

 

[RickJames3000]

I know what SCOTUS has said in Miller, Heller, McDonald and Caetano, I just want to know your opinion.

"The Court has held that “the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding,” District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U. S. 570, 582 (2008), and that this “Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States,” McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U. S. 742, 750 (2010)" Caetano v Massachusetts.

"The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Pp. 2–53.

(a) The Amendment’s prefatory clause announces a purpose, but does not limit or expand the scope of the second part, the operative clause. The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms."

"The Court cannot take judicial notice that a shotgun having a barrel less than 18 inches long has today any reasonable relation to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, and therefore cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees to the citizen the right to keep and bear such a weapon", implying that firearms having "any reasonable relation to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia" are protected the Second Amendment.

Given this, what is the federal government and the states empowered to restrict?

As I have said already, this isn't a matter of my "opinion"...
It's a matter of court precedent, of which there is ample evidence, if you only care to put in the effort to inform yourself.

 

[Rucker61]

As I have said already, this isn't a matter of my "opinion"...
It's a matter of court precedent, of which there is ample evidence, if you only care to put in the effort to inform yourself.

Did you not see the list of 2A SCOTUS cases I listed? I think you need to do some research, just to be able to defend your posts. That's how it works here.

 

[RickJames3000]

Did you not see the list of 2A SCOTUS cases I listed? I think you need to do some research, just to be able to defend your posts. That's how it works here.

What post are you asking me to defend? Provide a direct quote.

 

[Northern Light]

A gun owner would answer by saying that a gun you have to go and look for may as well not be there.

Many gun owners carry a gun when they go out. In their purse, pocket, holster. They have readily accessible guns in the home and car.


If a child wants to take a gun to school to kill other children, do you think he will worry too much what his parents say if he breaks open the gun rack ?

There's a middle ground here.

For example it's possible to have most of your main firearms locked up at home but maybe keep one hidden (yet very accessible) in case of intruders.

I'm not even talking about CCW or transporting firearms as those are unlikely ways children will obtain them. Almost every school shooting involving a parent's firearm had the weapon obtained at home. Some simple precautions could prevent a whole world of pain.

 

[TaterTots]

The countering argument to that is that in many instances, the family firearm...in homes where parents have taught their kids about firearm safety and their use...have been used to defend children in their homes from armed predators.

I don't know how many children have stopped an armed intruder in their home. Do you have a number on that because I'm guessing it's not significant.

 

[TurtleDude]

I don't know how many children have stopped an armed intruder in their home. Do you have a number on that because I'm guessing it's not significant.

when shots are not fired, reports rarely make it to the news

 

[VanceMack]

I don't know how many children have stopped an armed intruder in their home. Do you have a number on that because I'm guessing it's not significant.

Google it. I posted at least two recent news accounts. While it may not be a tremendous amount, does that really matter? There are on average 2.5 mass shootings a YEAR since 1982. Does that small number make those incidents insignificant?

 

[jonny5]

https://lawnews.tv/dgu-of-the-day-teen-shoots-burglar-in-leg-with-shotgun/
https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/news/nc-teen-scares-off-intruders-with-rifle/279954648

There is plenty of precedence where prepared minors used family weapons to prevent tragedies in the home. I dont think its a simple as "the father is responsible".

In that case, the parents are responsible as well. They taught their children well!

 

[jonny5]

There's a middle ground here.

For example it's possible to have most of your main firearms locked up at home but maybe keep one hidden (yet very accessible) in case of intruders.

I'm not even talking about CCW or transporting firearms as those are unlikely ways children will obtain them. Almost every school shooting involving a parent's firearm had the weapon obtained at home. Some simple precautions could prevent a whole world of pain.

The middle ground is teach your kids better. Millions of people have kids who own their own guns and they dont go out and shoot people. The problem isnt the gun, its the kid.

 

[Northern Light]

The middle ground is teach your kids better. Millions of people have kids who own their own guns and they dont go out and shoot people. The problem isnt the gun, its the kid.

That's just silly. Ask most firearms owners in most other countries and they will say that of course they make sure their guns are not accessible by their children. Here in Canada if a kid took a parent's firearm and shot up a school one of the first things the cops would ask is how secure the firearm was in the home. Yet in the USA this question is deemed absurd by many because of some misguided entitlement to have a ready weapon for defending one's home -- which by the way, is totally possible without creating access for children.

Teaching your kids is irrelevant if they turn out psycho. It's about access, not values. I taught my children about guns from the age of 6 onward, but they are not allowed to touch my guns without my supervision. One day they will have their own when they are adults and they can make their own rules -- but probably in their homes and not on my property, where my rules are god.

Gun safety culture is severely lacking in some areas of the U.S. It's because under the 2a anyone can buy a gun regardless if they know how to safely handle or store it. THAT'S the problem. We don't need more gun control we need a stronger culture of gun safety.

I'm sorry but if your kid can easily grab one of your guns to go carry out a massacre then something is wrong with your gun safety knowledge.

 

[jonny5]

That's just silly. Ask most firearms owners in most other countries and they will say that of course they make sure their guns are not accessible by their children. Here in Canada if a kid took a parent's firearm and shot up a school one of the first things the cops would ask is how secure the firearm was in the home. Yet in the USA this question is deemed absurd by many because of some misguided entitlement to have a ready weapon for defending one's home -- which by the way, is totally possible without creating access for children.

Teaching your kids is irrelevant if they turn out psycho. It's about access, not values. I taught my children about guns from the age of 6 onward, but they are not allowed to touch my guns without my supervision. One day they will have their own when they are adults and they can make their own rules -- but probably in their homes and not on my property, where my rules are god.

Gun safety culture is severely lacking in some areas of the U.S. It's because under the 2a anyone can buy a gun regardless if they know how to safely handle or store it. THAT'S the problem. We don't need more gun control we need a stronger culture of gun safety.

I'm sorry but if your kid can easily grab one of your guns to go carry out a massacre then something is wrong with your gun safety knowledge.

Millions of people in other countries let their kids have guns too. They just teach them to be responsible. In this country we expect the govt to raise our kids, and thats the cause of lots of problems in this country.