Should rapists have parental rights? [W:30]

[ChrisL]

Using the child as a weapon in retaliation for an actual crime is never appropriate.

When it comes to the child, the child's best interests are the only priority, not any crime another person committed.

I don't think being around a rapist father who attacked a woman or women is in the best interest of the child. I don't know who would ever want to let their child go with a criminal.

 

[Jerry]

I did't say it was. It could work that way if legislators decided to change the way they handle the recognition of legal parenthood and responsibility toward born children and toward violent criminals.

**** in one hand, wish in the other, and let us know which one fills up first.

 

[maquiscat]

Using the child as a weapon in retaliation for an actual crime is never appropriate.

When it comes to the child, the child's best interests are the only priority, not any crime another person committed.

I'm sure you agree that those crimes do factor in, they just aren't overriding factors, yes?

 

[Jerry]

I'm sure you agree that those crimes do factor in, they just aren't overriding factors, yes?

A parent's criminal record is something any judge takes into consideration, and rightly so. If a parent is violent, then that parent shouldn't be alone with the child. It does't matter if the violence is rape or agrivated armed burglary.

But even a violent parent still has an obligation to that child (not the least of which is corecting their own behavior and becoming a decent roll-moddel). The best solution is to correct the violent behavior and let that parent eat crow for the rest of their life.

I agree that violent people shouldn't have access to children, but blocking parental rights is overkill. Stick with supervision, restraining orders and of course a personal firearm.

 

[Jerry]

I don't think being around a rapist father who attacked a woman or women is in the best interest of the child.

Not if he continues to be violent, no. If he gets treatment and makes marked improvement that his psycologist will testify to, that's a different story.

I don't know who would ever want to let their child go with a criminal.

"Go with"?

Visitation =/= "go with".

I trust that since we're assuming a rape conviction that the father will begin the first few years of the child's life behind bars.., yes? If this is the case, "visitation" typicaly looks like the ocasional photo and quick note pased from the victim's lawer to his lawyer.

 

[ChrisL]

Not if he continues to be violent, no.


"Go with"?

Visitation =/= "go with".

I trust that since we're assuming a rape conviction that the father will begin the first few years of the child's life behind bars.., yes? If this is the case, "visitation" typicaly looks like the ocasional photo and quick note pased from the victim's lawer to his lawyer.

He wouldn't be in jail forever though.

 

[Jerry]

He wouldn't be in jail forever though.

If he were he could never aford the child support.

 

[ChrisL]

If he were he could never aford the child support.

If it were me, I would do without the child support. Honestly, I wouldn't want any kind of connection to the loser at all.

I think it is incredibly unfair to tell a woman that if she doesn't abort her resultant pregnancy from a rape then she has to allow her attacker access to the child and it is a complete interference with her decision on whether or not to keep the child. I don't think that the result of a crime should have to be shared with the perpetrator of that crime. That is just ass backwards IMO.

 

[Jerry]

If it were me, I would do without the child support. Honestly, I wouldn't want any kind of connection to the loser at all.

I think it is incredibly unfair to tell a woman that if she doesn't abort her resultant pregnancy from a rape then she has to allow her attacker access to the child and it is a complete interference with her decision on whether or not to keep the child. I don't think that the result of a crime should have to be shared with the perpetrator of that crime. That is just ass backwards IMO.

Plan-B solves that problem.

Keep a box of it in your bathroom. I do. Should a poor woman be raped, take that Plan-B and avoid this whole mess. Keeping Plan-B at home also avoids doctors who ethically refuse to offer it (which I disagree with, btw, but they have that right; I also disagree with elective abortion, but women have that right, that's just how things work).

 

[ChrisL]

Plan-B solves that problem.

Keep a box of it in your bathroom. I do. Should a poor woman be raped, take that Plan-B and avoid this whole mess. Keeping Plan-B at home also avoids doctors who ethically refuse to offer it (which I disagree with, btw, but they have that right; I also disagree with elective abortion, but women have that right, that's just how things work).

Some people may not believe in that. I would certainly take it to prevent a pregnancy after a rape, but I know there are people out there who just don't believe in that.

 

[choiceone]

Plan-B solves that problem.

Keep a box of it in your bathroom. I do. Should a poor woman be raped, take that Plan-B and avoid this whole mess. Keeping Plan-B at home also avoids doctors who ethically refuse to offer it (which I disagree with, btw, but they have that right; I also disagree with elective abortion, but women have that right, that's just how things work).

Plan B is not 100% effective even if taken as soon as possible after the rape. It has a limited period of effectiveness and the probability of effectiveness decreases with every hour after the sex act until it reaches the no effectiveness point. And that's assuming the rape did not also involve kidnapping that prevented the woman from having access to Plan B during the time it works. So don't try to excuse being against abortion in a case of rape by bringing up Plan B as a panacea.

 

[Jerry]

Some people may not believe in that.

What's to believe in? It's a medication, not a religion.

 

[Jerry]

Plan B is not 100% effective even if taken as soon as possible after the rape.

Nothing is 100% effective, ever. I thought everyone already knew this. At least now you know from here.

So don't try to excuse being against abortion in a case of rape...

When did I make a statement against abortion for rape? Is it that you aren't following the conversation or are you trying to change the coarse of this thread?

I said the woman should abort, ChrisL said is was harsh to tell a woman that she either has to abort or have the rapist in her life. That's when I brought up Plan-B. How the hell do you get me opposing abortion out of that?

 

[Henrin]

What's to believe in? It's a medication, not a religion.

:doh How a medication works can in fact go against what people think of life and pregnancy. Of course, pro-life people shouldn't be against plan-B since it stops fertilization.

 

[Jerry]

:doh How a medication works can in fact go against what people think of life and pregnancy. Of course, pro-life people shouldn't be against plan-B since it stops fertilization.

That's an error in their 'belief', not in the medication or advice to take said medication.

 

[ChrisL]

What's to believe in? It's a medication, not a religion.

Jerry, you know that not everyone agrees when conception begins and there are plenty of people who believe that the morning after pill is the equivalent of abortion.

 

[Jerry]

Jerry, you know that not everyone agrees when conception begins and there are plenty of people who believe that the morning after pill is the equivalent of abortion.

Those people aren't correct, though. Willfull stupidity on the mothers part does not justify infringing on the fathers or child's rights.

 

[ChrisL]

Those people aren't correct, though. Willfull stupidity on the mothers part does not justify infringing on the fathers or child's rights.

I guess that would be a matter of opinion.

 

[maquiscat]

I guess that would be a matter of opinion.

If you are of the opinion that preventing the sperm from even merging with the egg is equivalent with abortion, then yes. Otherwise they are mistaken about the function of the drug.

 

[SheWolf]

A lot of them don't go to jail, but this can get really complicated when the rapist is a family member and the victim.is a minor.

Hell no, he shouldn't have any rights. He committed a crime and impregnated a woman against her will. He should be in jail for a very, very long time anyway, so this shouldn't even be an issue. Unfortunately, rapists usually don't get very long prison sentences.

 

[ChrisL]

A lot of them don't go to jail, but this can get really complicated when the rapist is a family member and the victim.is a minor.

Clarification please?

 

[ChrisL]

If you are of the opinion that preventing the sperm from even merging with the egg is equivalent with abortion, then yes. Otherwise they are mistaken about the function of the drug.

Well there are some people who do feel that way apparently. Besides that, this thread is supposed to assume that the mother had the child as a result of rape and if the father should be allowed visitation, so we are kind of getting off topic here.

 

[choiceone]

Nothing is 100% effective, ever. I thought everyone already knew this. At least now you know from here.



When did I make a statement against abortion for rape? Is it that you aren't following the conversation or are you trying to change the coarse of this thread?

I said the woman should abort, ChrisL said is was harsh to tell a woman that she either has to abort or have the rapist in her life. That's when I brought up Plan-B. How the hell do you get me opposing abortion out of that?

Not accusing, just tired of sites all over the web where naive people tout Plan B as an always effective panacea and afraid that your post could be misunderstood by some ignoramus as touting that and then more such sites would pop up.

 

[Jerry]

Not accusing, just tired of sites all over the web where naive people tout Plan B as an always effective panacea and afraid that your post could be misunderstood by some ignoramus as touting that and then more such sites would pop up.

When it comes down to it, abortion itself isn't even 100% effective. In fact we can't even be cretin the woman will always 100% survive child birth; or that the child will always 100% survive childbirth. Nothing is 100% effective, not situation avoidance, not a personal firearm, not convincing a rapist to use a condom, not Plan-B, not abortion, not child birth, nothing. Do you know nothing about the topic of abortion?

Everyone already knows that nothing is 100% effective. I don't see your point.

 

[Jerry]

Clarification please?

About 60% of all rapes go unreported: https://www.google.com/search?q=M91...jCrCQ0QGAuIHIAQ&ved=0CC0QsAQ&biw=1600&bih=775

Should you pass a 'rapist get no rights' law, the best you can hope for is a 40% effective rate since most rapists won't even be accused, let alone convicted.

*****
As for complications if family, consider marital rape. A husband and wife already have 2-3 children, the husband rapes the wife and she becomes pregnant, she files charges, he's convicted, and has no rights to that one child.

But he still has rights to the other children in that home, who will be growing up with their full-blood sibling and whom their father will have access to.

Complications abound.