• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Should Pit Bulls be Outlawed?

Squawker

Professor
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
1,314
Reaction score
4
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The main argument Pit Bull owners have is “if the dogs are raised properly, they won’t be vicious”. That doesn’t seem to be the case. This breed just seems to be too unpredictable to keep taking chances on.

Two pet pit bulls with no apparent history of aggression and described as well-kept attacked and killed their owner inside his suburban St. Louis home, authorities said Thursday.

Lorinze Reddings, 42, of St. Charles County, died after an apparent attack by his 8-year-old female and a 3-year-old male dogs. The animals were turned over to St. Charles County Animal Control and will be euthanized, director of humane services Theresa Williams said.
Source
 

Arch Enemy

Familiaist
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
7,470
Reaction score
2,085
Location
North Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
what will they do with all the Pit Bulls? Mass murder?
 

Squawker

Professor
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
1,314
Reaction score
4
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
what will they do with all the Pit Bulls? Mass murder?
Is putting down a dog murder? Just pretend the dog is one of those evil guns the left loves to ban.
 

Arch Enemy

Familiaist
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
7,470
Reaction score
2,085
Location
North Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
you're a sick man.

You'd compare to banning a gun, nothing more than metal with the killing of organisms... ones that have feelings and can feel pain. Never shall I compare guns to dogs, Dogs can be trained to be mean, but they can also be trained and taught to be quite loving.
 

Squawker

Professor
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
1,314
Reaction score
4
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
You'd compare to banning a gun/Never shall I compare guns to dogs
This is a vicious animal that doesn't deserve to exist. Please tell me you are against abortion Arch Enemy.
 

samantha_87

New member
Joined
May 13, 2005
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
You can't kill all the pit bulls in America you retard. If you kill the pit bull because their "dangerous," then you might as well kill every other dangerous animal in the world. The only real reason to do that would be if they were mass murdering.
 

Squawker

Professor
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
1,314
Reaction score
4
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
lol Welcome to the forum Samantha. :2wave: I don't believe I said kill them all. I said should the breed be banned.
If you kill the pit bull because their "dangerous," then you might as well kill every other dangerous animal in the world.
Most dangerous animals are not kept as pets, there is a law against it. I think the Pit Bull should be included in that law. They are responsible for more human deaths by attack, than any other breed of dog.
ps. FYI, I ain't no retard. girly :mrgreen:
 

shuamort

Pundit-licious
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
7,297
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Saint Paul, MN
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
http://rdu.news14.com/content/headlines/?ArID=67404&SecID=2
(OMAHA, Neb.) - A couple of pit bulls are being hailed as canine heroes. The bred may have a mean reputation, but Angie Pecoraro is happy the pit bulls were next door.

She was attacked in her Omaha, Nebraska, yard this week by a red chow. The dog had knocked her down and was biting her repeatedly.

That's when the neighbor's pit bulls came to the rescue.

They jumped a fence and fought off the chow.
Aren't Pit Bulls MEAN and VICIOUS?
No more vicious than golden retrievers, beagles or other popular dogs! In a recent study of 122 dog breeds by the American Temperament Testing Society (ATT), pit bulls achieved a passing rate of 83.9%. That's as good or better than beagles ... 78.2%, and golden retrievers ... 83.2%.
 

Squawker

Professor
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
1,314
Reaction score
4
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
No more vicious than golden retrievers, beagles or other popular dogs!
I would like to know how they did that study. The facts just don't back that up.

The breeds most often involved in fatal attacks are Rottweilers and Pit bulls.

In the United States, pit bulls make up one to three per cent of the overall dog population and cause more than 50 per cent of serious attacks.
-snip-

With respect to breed differences in the tendency to inflict serious injury, Plumb estimates that when a pit bull bites a human, one in 16 (e.g. 1/16) will inflict serious injury; this contrasts with a ratio of 1/296 Dobermans, and 1/156 German shepherds.
Source
 

shuamort

Pundit-licious
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
7,297
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Saint Paul, MN
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Squawker said:
I would like to know how they did that study. The facts just don't back that up.
Ask and receive:

The ATTS test focuses on and measures different aspects of temperament such as stability, shyness, aggressiveness, and friendliness as well as the dog's instinct for protectiveness towards its handler and/or self-preservation in the face of a threat. The test is designed for the betterment of all breeds of dogs and takes into consideration each breed's inherent tendencies.

The test simulates a casual walk through the park or neighborhood where everyday life situations are encountered. During this walk, the dog experiences visual, auditory and tactile stimuli. Neutral, friendly and threatening situations are encountered, calling into play the dog's ability to distinguish between non-threatening situations and those calling for watchful and protective reactions.
The main problem is there are actually two "types" of pit bulls.

One,the APBT or the American Pit Bull Terrier. This is the breed recognized by the ADBA, CKC, APBR, APRI, OREBA, AKC and UKC.

Then there's the "Pit Bull" which is mixed breed or mutt terrier that has some of the APBT's physical charcteristics, but is not a pure breed. As such, a pure breed ban on the Pit Bull would be near impossible.
 

Squawker

Professor
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
1,314
Reaction score
4
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
That seemed like a very controlled environment, Shuamort. Hard to say how that relates to off leash. In the search I did
Source the common theme was: 1. They wanted to protect the breed from people like me who think they should be banned, and 2. They all had severe warnings to future owners. That leads me to think they are far more dangerous than the pit bull lovers are willing to admit.
 

Arch Enemy

Familiaist
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
7,470
Reaction score
2,085
Location
North Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Squawker,

I am not for the ideals surrounding abortion, but as it stands right now, abortion is the right of the woman.

Why not strict restrictions on Pit-Bulls? Like you have to have a license and to get this license, you must go through courses and other things to prepare you for the Pit-Bulls temper swings.

How many of those cases were the victims just "randomly strolling down the street"? I'd bet that the people did something to cause the attacks of the Pit-Bulls.
 

samantha_87

New member
Joined
May 13, 2005
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
How can you ban all the pit bulls in america? thats so retarded. AND how many people are responsible for pet deaths? Does that count at all?
 

Squawker

Professor
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
1,314
Reaction score
4
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Why not strict restrictions on Pit-Bulls? Like you have to have a license and to get this license, you must go through courses and other things to prepare you for the Pit-Bulls temper swings.
That might be a good compromise along with a controlled breeding program. There are so many other breeds out there, I fail to see anything endearing about the dangerous ones. I like cats, but I don't want a Tiger in my house. Last time I checked Samantha, Tigers were banned from owning without a special license.
 

shuamort

Pundit-licious
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Messages
7,297
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Saint Paul, MN
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Squawker said:
That might be a good compromise along with a controlled breeding program. There are so many other breeds out there, I fail to see anything endearing about the dangerous ones. I like cats, but I don't want a Tiger in my house. Last time I checked Samantha, Tigers were banned from owning without a special license.
Depends on what state you live in actually. Some states allow you to own a couple wild animals without registering them (tigers included).

I used to volunteer at the American Cancer Society and a lady I knew had joined a program by a local zoo to adopt wild anilmals when the zoo had run out of room. She had converted the lower half of her split-level house into a playroom and then had a door to allow them to go in and out to the caged in outside. She adopted two of these binturongs:
 

Fu_chick

Member
Joined
May 13, 2005
Messages
182
Reaction score
0
I am really glad that my acount was not activated until today, because if I had typed what I was thinking last night I probably would have recieved some sort of warning. I am an owner of a 1 yr old pit bull mix named Sally. The notion that you should decide whether or not my animal deserves to be alive is apalling to me. What DO you think happens to pits once they are banned? They are destroyed.

I suggest you eduacate yourself on dog behavior in general and the type of breed know as the "pit bull" specifically. You might be surprised what you learn.

First of all, BSL (breed specific regulation) does not work. It is opposed by dog experts, including the AKC, the leading canine authority in the US, and the American Veterinary Medical Association. There is no such thing as a dog that will not bite and ALL breeds can be unpredictable. There is a case where an infant was killed by a pomeranian while the childs uncle was making it a bottle. But don't take my word for it:

http://www.fataldogattacks.com/

www.avma.org/publichlth/dogbite/

www.dog-play.com/pitbull.html

www.adoa.org

www.dogwatch.net/alerts/stories/story05Mar03_1.html

www.dogwatch.net/alerts/stories/story05Mar18_1.html

www.dogwatch.net/alerts/stories/story05Mar02_1.html

www.canismajor.com/orgs/ovdo/bsl01.html

The CDC does site pits bull type dogs as the leader in fatal attacks on people. However, this info is questionable. There is no way to say for sure if all of those dogs were APBT, AST, SBT, a mix thereof, or possibly none of the above. The people IDing the offending dogs were not dog experts and pits do resemble many other breeds. People have been known to mistake everything from boxers to pugs as pit bulls. My nieghbor has an English bulldog that I've seen mistaken for a pit and it happens to the owners of American Bulldogs all the time. Take a look that the following site and see if you can find the pit on the first try. I OWN one an I couldn't http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

The sites that you mentioned as having "severe warnings' have such because it is HUMAN IGNORANCE that has hurt the breed so badly. You get these punks that buy a pit-type because they look tough, then encorage aggression, and chain it in the yard, preventing the dog from being socialized. Back in the early days of the breed ANY pit that showed human agression was KILLED. Now irresponsible breeders breed dogs that they KNOW have human agression because they want a tough and vicious dog, and that's waht they get. There are MANY wonderful pitbulls out there, and MANY good breeds of pit-type dogs. These dogs, like ALL breeds need to be socialized from an early age, and they need responsible owners who will actually look after and properly care for and train the dog.

Comparing these dogs to guns is just absurd. Guns have killed WAY more people than pits (or any dog) ever has or will, and this is coming from someone who is against gun control.

There are those who agree with you that pits should be banned, and they are as follows:

--an ignorant public
--opportunistic politicians
--PETA
 

Blackflagx

Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2005
Messages
56
Reaction score
0
Location
Michigan, USA
I myself have two pitbull puppies so naturally I am against banning them. It is the persons choice to own the animal and thats the way it should be. In the event of an attack the owner should be 100% responsible. I never, however, think a dog should be put down, even in the event of attack. I think pitbulls, like any dog, can be trained to be nice peacefull little angels, or vicious killers. My pitbulls are some of the nicest dogs I have ever seen. It is how they are trained that makes them what they are. Make animal abuse and fight training illegal and make the owners responsible for attacks. This will solve the problem and pitbulls will be able to be nice loving pets for all people.
 

Squawker

Professor
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
1,314
Reaction score
4
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Hi Fu_chick! :2wave:


I am an owner of a 1 yr old pit bull mix named Sally. The notion that you should decide whether or not my animal deserves to be alive is apalling to me. What DO you think happens to pits once they are banned? They are destroyed.
If I had that much power it would be done already. PETA wouldn’t allow them to be killed. The only thing in this country people can kill with no regard are human babies. Ban the breeding and sale, or put stricter limits on the owners.
I suggest you eduacate yourself on dog behavior in general and the type of breed know as the "pit bull" specifically. You might be surprised what you learn.
Did you read the case I posted at the beginning of this thread? You can cite how wonderful the dogs are all day long, it doesn’t negate the facts. Pit Bulls kill people when they turn vicious. The number one killer out of the breeds below. You can’t wish the facts to go away. If your dog kills a child, you will have to live with it for the rest of your life. Is a dog worth it to you? All the other owners thought their dog was different and would never do that too.
The dogs most likely to bite
A 1997 study of dog bite fatalities in the years 1979 through 1996 revealed that the following breeds had killed one or more persons: pit bulls, Rottweilers, German shepherds, huskies, Alaskan malamutes, Doberman pinschers, chows, Great Danes, St. Bernards and Akitas. (Dog Bite Related Fatalities," Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, May 30, 1997, Vol. 46, No. 21, pp. 463 et. seq.) The experience of the author of Dog Bite Law confirms that the dogs on the CDC list are the most frequent attackers of human beings.
Source
 

Arch Enemy

Familiaist
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
7,470
Reaction score
2,085
Location
North Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
I promise that my idea is the best course of action. Killing the dogs would be insane, but keeping them as free, would be just as bad. The major thing I have against Pit Bulls, is not the dog, but it's the way they've been used.. since they are typically a moody dog, white-trash can easily turn them into evil fighters... that is the worst type of Animal Cruelty.
 

Fu_chick

Member
Joined
May 13, 2005
Messages
182
Reaction score
0
First of all, PETA is advocating baning them--read for yourself...
http://www.badrap.org/rescue/PETAA.cfm

Do you know the people who would be hurt by the ban on pits? The same people who would be hurt by a ban on guns--RESPONSIBLE OWNERS. It wouldn't be the trash that breeds and fights these dogs, it would be people like me that have their dogs lisenced by the county, up to date on their shots, alter them, and use positive methods to train.

I did read the story in the beginning of the thread, actually I knew about it before I even discovered this sight. It was being discussed on a dog board I belonged to. Most dog people would agree that the entire thing sounds rather fishy. No one will ever know what happened in that house but the dogs themselves. I truely think there is more to the story.

Once we start banning, where do we stop? Italy started banning breeds and the number is up to something like 40. They are even considering banning Welsh Corgis. After we ban pits, rotts are next on the list--do we ban them too? And after the rotts are the GSDs, then the huskies, and the malimutes. Were does it end? Hell, lets just ban ALL dogs, then there is no chance of anyone getting bitten. I own horses--are they next? Many people are killed in horseback riding accidents. It could go on and on.....

Any, I repeat ANY large dog is capable of killing an adult if it turns visious and ANY dog expert will tell you as much.

How on earth can you call yourself a concervative? I mean, really--what ever happened to PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY?

BTW--In one study Staffordshire Bull Terriers (a pit-type dog) were found to be one of the ten best dogs for kids. They are known as the "nanny dog" in England.

You're right, I can't denie facts, that is why I prefer to trust the word of EXPERTS of that of emotional hand-wriggers.
 

Arch Enemy

Familiaist
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
7,470
Reaction score
2,085
Location
North Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
.... eventually it'll end up to the banning of German Sheppard.

I, for one, wouldn't stand for that. Who are we to determine whether an animal lives or dies? Just because some of use feel discomfort around them, then they're supposed to be banned?

As a Christian ask yourself, should you really be playing the role of God? Should you be destroying something God placed on this Earth, just like humans?
 

Squawker

Professor
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
1,314
Reaction score
4
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Who are we to determine whether an animal lives or dies? Just because some of use feel discomfort around them, then they're supposed to be banned?
I don't believe a dogs life has the same value that a humans life has. Call me crazy, but that's just me. Go figure. I don't feel "discomfort" at all. I wouldn't own a vicious dog period, and I see no value in it. When a breed gets a reputation as a killer of children and adults, that would be it for me. Be glad I don't have the power to do it today, because I wouldn't allow them out in public, and I don't care how responsible the owner is. I don't know what to say to people who choose the life of a dog over a human.
 

Arch Enemy

Familiaist
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Messages
7,470
Reaction score
2,085
Location
North Carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Just because we're more intelligent, have opposable thumbs, does that make us more important than a dog? Is an organism still an organism no matter how smart they are?
If I had to choose between shooting a person and shooting a dog, I'd shoot the dog, but that doesn't mean that the dog is less important than the person. It is a species characteristic to want to protect their species and to show their species dominance.

You do have the best argument in this case, I just cannot agree with the fact that these dogs should be "put-down", I own a Jack Russel Terrier and if somebody tried to "put-down" my dog, I'd grab my licensed AK-74 and fill them full of lead. That's protecting my property.

With that I leave this debate, not much I can argue for.
 

Fu_chick

Member
Joined
May 13, 2005
Messages
182
Reaction score
0
Squawker said:
I don't believe a dogs life has the same value that a humans life has. Call me crazy, but that's just me. Go figure. I don't feel "discomfort" at all. I wouldn't own a vicious dog period, and I see no value in it. When a breed gets a reputation as a killer of children and adults, that would be it for me. Be glad I don't have the power to do it today, because I wouldn't allow them out in public, and I don't care how responsible the owner is. I don't know what to say to people who choose the life of a dog over a human.
We do agree on one thing--I wouldn't own a vicious dog either, therefore I don't. You can go on and on about the breed's bad repuation all day, but I still choose to listen to people that actually know want they're talking about, rather then ignorant individuals (ack) and the media (double ack). It's interesting that rather than argue the facts in this case (then again, how can you when every dog EXPERT is telling you that you are wrong), you choose to take what the media says about the breed as gospel. Bush has a repuation in the media as being an idiot. Those in opposition to gun control have a reputation as "gun-nuts" in the media. Really, does any critical thinker take the media's word for it anymore? I know I don't.

I do realize that human and animal life are not on the same level, but if I had to choose between the life of my dog and the life of a person, I can think of a few individuals that would be on the losing end of that deal.
 
Top Bottom