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Should min wage be removed?

Should min wage be removed?


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Korimyr the Rat

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Yes. Labor is essentially a market good; its price is determined by the same forces of supply and demand that govern every other market good. Government policies, like price controls on other goods, can alter the price of a good but not its value meaning that the minimum wage decreases the demand for labor and thus reduces the amount of labor that businesses choose to purchase. It drives people out of jobs and depresses the wages of jobs that would otherwise be worth more than the minimum wage.

If we want to help the working class in this country, we should working on keeping jobs here rather than driving them overseas.
 

Gabriel

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Yes. Labor is essentially a market good; its price is determined by the same forces of supply and demand that govern every other market good. Government policies, like price controls on other goods, can alter the price of a good but not its value meaning that the minimum wage decreases the demand for labor and thus reduces the amount of labor that businesses choose to purchase. It drives people out of jobs and depresses the wages of jobs that would otherwise be worth more than the minimum wage.

If we want to help the working class in this country, we should working on keeping jobs here rather than driving them overseas.

It's not that cut and dry.
Does a Higher Minimum Wage Reduce Jobs?
 

Camlon

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Yes. Labor is essentially a market good; its price is determined by the same forces of supply and demand that govern every other market good. Government policies, like price controls on other goods, can alter the price of a good but not its value meaning that the minimum wage decreases the demand for labor and thus reduces the amount of labor that businesses choose to purchase. It drives people out of jobs and depresses the wages of jobs that would otherwise be worth more than the minimum wage.

If we want to help the working class in this country, we should working on keeping jobs here rather than driving them overseas.

But you can't place a value on a person in that way. A person is not worth 300 dollars. What he is worth depends on the market like other goods.

Think about a village with 100 people. 30 of them are uneducated and can only do sevice jobs for the remaining 70. There are only 20 such jobs and 10 of them are unemployed and desperate of getting a job. Let's say the 20 people earn 10 dollars per hour, but the 10 unemployed earns nothing except food so 8 dolllars is pretty good wage. However, the 70 don't really need more service workers and employ 21 people. It keeps going till for instance the wage is at 4 dollars and they are so cheap that they can employ workers for nearly useless tasks.

It would have been much better for the 30 people at the bottom if they decided to keep a minimum wage, and gave support to the ones who can't find a job. Also the unemployed workers could have found something else that was in demand, or they could have gotten themselves an education and increase their value. Actually it would have been better, even if they didn't find other jobs.

We need a minimum wage, but it shouldn't be too high. Because then it's too hard to enter the labour market, since they have to create so much value.
 

tacomancer

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I don't understand why anyone would want this country to become more like a third world ****hole.
 

The_Patriot

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I said no because minimum wage puts a false bottom on goods and services, which prevents them from being cheaper. Also, the minimum wage doesn't help the people it is supposed to, the unskilled worker, because the prices of goods and services rises to the new floor on prices. The only people that the minimum wages help are union workers at the top of their pay scale. The only way that they will get a raise is when minimum wage increases. In my 41 years of life I have seen minimum wage go up three times and each time the cost of goods and services went up. The cost was roughly the same percentage of what it cost to purchase basic goods and services under the new minimum wage as it was under the old minimum wage. For example, back when minimum wage was $3.15 an hour a hamburger at McDonalds was 59 cents. With minimum wage at $7.50 an hour that same burger is now $1.09. Did minimum wage actually help the unskilled worker in order to afford a basic food product? No, because it costs roughly the same percentage as it did under the old minimum wage.
 
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tacomancer

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I said no because minimum wage puts a false bottom on goods and services, which prevents them from being cheaper. Also, the minimum wage doesn't help the people it is supposed to, the unskilled worker, because the prices of goods and services rises to the new floor on prices. The only people that the minimum wages help are union workers at the top of their pay scale. The only way that they will get a raise is when minimum wage increases. In my 41 years of life I have seen minimum wage go up three times and each time the cost of goods and services went up. The cost was roughly the same percentage of what it cost to purchase basic goods and services under the new minimum wage as it was under the old minimum wage. For example, back when minimum wage was $3.15 an hour a hamburger at McDonalds was 59 cents. With minimum wage at $7.50 an hour that same burger is now $1.09. Did minimum wage actually help the unskilled worker in order to afford a basic food product? No, because it costs roughly the same percentage as it did under the old minimum wage.

@7.50/hr*40hr the burger (at 1.09) = .47% of wages
@3.15/hr*40hr the burget (at 0.59) = .36% of wages
 

The_Patriot

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@7.50/hr*40hr the burger (at 1.09) = .47% of wages
@3.15/hr*40hr the burget (at 0.59) = .36% of wages

Your calculation is flawed since you assume that every minimum wage worker works as a full time employee. You should have just calculated based off of one hour of work.

@7.50/hour the burger (1.09)=6.8% of the hourly wage
@3.15/hour the burger (.59)=5.3% of the hourly wage

It's roughly the same percentage wise, but it does show a distriburbing trend that the higher minimum wage goes the less buying power the earner has.
 

Camlon

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I said no because minimum wage puts a false bottom on goods and services, which prevents them from being cheaper. Also, the minimum wage doesn't help the people it is supposed to, the unskilled worker, because the prices of goods and services rises to the new floor on prices. The only people that the minimum wages help are union workers at the top of their pay scale. The only way that they will get a raise is when minimum wage increases. In my 41 years of life I have seen minimum wage go up three times and each time the cost of goods and services went up. The cost was roughly the same percentage of what it cost to purchase basic goods and services under the new minimum wage as it was under the old minimum wage. For example, back when minimum wage was $3.15 an hour a hamburger at McDonalds was 59 cents. With minimum wage at $7.50 an hour that same burger is now $1.09. Did minimum wage actually help the unskilled worker in order to afford a basic food product? No, because it costs roughly the same percentage as it did under the old minimum wage.

Don't forget about inflation and wage increases. Actually if we adjust the minimum wage for inflation and don't even think about wage increases, then the minimum wage has decreased the last 30 years. The burger is more expensive due to inflation.
 

earthworm

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A better question....Should there be a maximum wage...??
There should be a training wage, similar to the olden days of journeymen....And this should be tied in with the craft unions....
This is only an idea...
 

Camlon

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A better question....Should there be a maximum wage...??
There should be a training wage, similar to the olden days of journeymen....And this should be tied in with the craft unions....
This is only an idea...

Hell no! How would that help?

If it set around 100K, then it will cause severe shortage in many fields, and will crush the US economy.

If it is set around 500K, it will still cause harm to companies. Large companies spend a lot of money to get a good CEO, because billions of dollars is at stake. To spend a couple of million dollars on a good CEO, is a good investment if he saves the company billions of dollars. And it's not like rich people will vanish with a cap. People who own companies will still be rich. Actually, they are the richest people in america, and that's good, because they are the ones who create jobs.
 

The_Patriot

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Don't forget about inflation and wage increases. Actually if we adjust the minimum wage for inflation and don't even think about wage increases, then the minimum wage has decreased the last 30 years. The burger is more expensive due to inflation.

True, but I think what you're trying to say is that the buying power of wages has decreased while wages themselves have increased. It's a different way of putting what you said. Inflation affects buying power only, so the impact of inflation in combination of the wage increases results in a poorer unskilled worker class. By extension, everyone is poorer as well.
 
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digsbe

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I don't think they should remove minimum wage. Some companies are cheap excuses for a business when it comes to their employees.
 

The_Patriot

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I don't think they should remove minimum wage. Some companies are cheap excuses for a business when it comes to their employees.

I believe you're confusing a for profit business with a charity. If a company doesn't make a profit then it won't be able to employ people. One of the nasty side effects of the minimum wage is that when it increases jobs actually decrease in order to maintain a company's profitability. If you're for minimum wage you hate the poor and workers everywhere.
 

liblady

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absolutely not. we are already in a race to the bottom.
 

samsmart

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I believe you're confusing a for profit business with a charity. If a company doesn't make a profit then it won't be able to employ people. One of the nasty side effects of the minimum wage is that when it increases jobs actually decrease in order to maintain a company's profitability. If you're for minimum wage you hate the poor and workers everywhere.

Or that company can just cut the pay of those who earn the highest salaries in it's company. That wouldn't result in a loss of jobs at all.
 

Camlon

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True, but I think what you're trying to say is that the buying power of wages has decreased while wages themselves have increased. It's a different way of putting what you said. Inflation affects buying power only, so the impact of inflation in combination of the wage increases results in a poorer unskilled worker class. By extension, everyone is poorer as well.
I was talking about what makes the burger more expensive.
1. Inflation
2. Real wage increases. Burgers isn't any more efficiently made today, that they were 30 years ago. But the ones making burgers, from farmers to employees want their wage to be increased with the rest of society.

It is true that poor people in the US hasn't got any richer the last 30 years and the minimum wage has decreased in real terms. However, it's not true for the whole population. However, I must comment that this inequality has very little to do with the minimum wage.
1106aa.gif
 
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The_Patriot

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Or that company can just cut the pay of those who earn the highest salaries in it's company. That wouldn't result in a loss of jobs at all.

You're under the false asumption that a CEO and an entry level worker have the same basic job functions and responsibilities. This isn't the case since those at the top of the company are responsible for all of the employees under them and if they fail to do their job properly they affect everyone that is below them. An entry level worker doesn't have the same effect, since their decisions do not impact the company to the same degree as the top salaries and definitely do not impact anyone below them since there isn't anyone there.
 

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You're under the false asumption that a CEO and an entry level worker have the same basic job functions and responsibilities. This isn't the case since those at the top of the company are responsible for all of the employees under them and if they fail to do their job properly they affect everyone that is below them. An entry level worker doesn't have the same effect, since their decisions do not impact the company to the same degree as the top salaries and definitely do not impact anyone below them since there isn't anyone there.

those at the top in most cases are certainly NOT worth 6 hundred times more than those at the bottom. ceo salaries are grossly out of line, and that's a fairly recent occurrence.
 

The_Patriot

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I was talking about what makes the burger more expensive.
1. Inflation
2. Real wage increases. Burgers isn't any more efficiently made today, that they were 30 years ago. But the ones making burgers, from farmers to employees want their wage to be increased with the rest of society.

It is true that poor people in the US hasn't got any richer the last 30 years and the minimum wage has decreased in real terms. However, it's not true for the whole population. However, I must comment that this inequality has very little to do with the minimum wage.
1106aa.gif

Your chart is meaningless since it doesn't include a key to understand what the two columns mean. Minimum wage hasn't decreased in real terms. It has increased as evidenced by the fact that the amount has increased. The buying power of the wage has decreased due to inflation. What would have cost to purchase before minimum wage increased should have remained constant with the increase, but due to inflation eroding the value of the dollar has decreased what the same amount of money could buy.
 

The_Patriot

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those at the top in most cases are certainly NOT worth 6 hundred times more than those at the bottom. ceo salaries are grossly out of line, and that's a fairly recent occurrence.

Do you run a multibillion dollar company? If you don't then you have no idea what the top employees are worth.
 

liblady

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Do you run a multibillion dollar company? If you don't then you have no idea what the top employees are worth.

nope.....but i work for one that has been run into the ground by our ceo.
 
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