Should hospitals treat the unvaccinated?

[Kreton]

As we are moving into the next Covid season hospitals are once again being overrun with Covid patients, the majority of which are unvaccinated. Other people cannot get rooms in hospitals, some surgeries and elective procedure are once again being cancelled because of the irresponsibility of these people. If these people are deciding to risk their lives why should hospitals be forced to save them? To avoid a simple shot. They have decided they don't trust medicine or science why not keep with that and stay out?

I think the time is here to let them live with their choices.

 

[Gatsby]

Of course they should. What kind of question is that?

 

[AGENT J]

As we are moving into the next Covid season hospitals are once again being overrun with Covid patients, the majority of which are unvaccinated. Other people cannot get rooms in hospitals, some surgeries and elective procedure are once again being cancelled because of the irresponsibility of these people. If these people are deciding to risk their lives why should hospitals be forced to save them? To avoid a simple shot. They have decided they don't trust medicine or science why not keep with that and stay out?

I think the time is here to let them live with their choices.

Yes of course and general triage should apply. Stupidity/negligence is no reason to not treat people .. see crackheads, kids doing drunken double back flips out a tree house etc

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Of course they should treat them. However, that does not mean that insurers should be required to pay for it. Insurers should not have to pay for COVID treatment if a member opts to not be vaccinated. As the saying goes, freedom isn't free.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Of course they should treat them. However, that does not mean that insurers should be required to pay for it. Insurers should not have to pay for COVID treatment if a member opts to not be vaccinated. As the saying goes, freedom isn't free.

I like this answer.

 

[Mr Person]

I understand the urge to say "toss 'em in the parking lot" and I think I once made that very quip, but we can't make ourselves into monsters as we attack other people for behaving monstrously.

 

[switt]

Yes, but insurance companies should deny coverage

 

[Gatsby]

Insurance companies should NOT deny coverage for unvaccinated people. In the past decade we finally moved beyond the idea that preexisting conditions and personal behavior (with the exception of smoking, for some reason) should be factors in insurance coverage. Why would we want to turn the clock backward on that and start micromanaging how people live their lives and charge them accordingly?

The only things that should impact health insurance premiums are age and zip code, and I am open to eliminating those as well and just charging everyone a flat premium without regard to the actuarial tables.

 

[Lutherf]

As we are moving into the next Covid season hospitals are once again being overrun with Covid patients, the majority of which are unvaccinated. Other people cannot get rooms in hospitals, some surgeries and elective procedure are once again being cancelled because of the irresponsibility of these people. If these people are deciding to risk their lives why should hospitals be forced to save them? To avoid a simple shot. They have decided they don't trust medicine or science why not keep with that and stay out?

I think the time is here to let them live with their choices.

The only way we'll ever be free of Covid is to rid the world of the unvaccinated. Basically, it's the same solution we need to use to save democracy. As long as we get rid of Republicans we'll be good to go. Can't have that good ol' freedom if we've got asshole we disagree with hanging around!

 

[Argent]

I don't think unvaxed should be treated to the exclusion of all other people needing medical care which has been the case where I live for almost 2 yrs. I would like to see triaging of patients done more often. Our ICUs have been full of ventilated unvaxed covid cases for too long. None of them, by the way, have the money to pay for their care if their insurance doesn't so the fallout from that wouldn't solve anything.

 

[BirdinHand]

As soon as they stop treating smokers, alcoholics, drug addicts, the obese that won’t diet/exercise, people that take part in “risky” activities like extreme sports, etc

 

[ttwtt78640]

Yes, if we were to get into refusing to treat medical conditions which resulted from (alleged) patient negligence then why limit it to just not having (suggested?) up to date vaccination records? We treat folks for conditions caused by committing crimes, attempting suicide and resulting from drug, tobacco and alcohol abuse.

 

[BirdinHand]

Of course they should treat them. However, that does not mean that insurers should be required to pay for it. Insurers should not have to pay for COVID treatment if a member opts to not be vaccinated. As the saying goes, freedom isn't free.

Excellent.

Let’s go back to denying coverage for all preexisting conditions while we are at it.

Man…it’s almost like the left wants to see the ACA dismantled

 

[eohrnberger]

Of course they should treat them. However, that does not mean that insurers should be required to pay for it. Insurers should not have to pay for COVID treatment if a member opts to not be vaccinated. As the saying goes, freedom isn't free.

You can easily see where this is going.
"According to our records, we find that you have an established history of buying meat lover's pizza every Friday night. We refuse to cover your life saving cardiac procedure."

No, the insurance company needs to provide their expected and contracted for usual coverage.

An insurance company doesn't get to just violate a contract just because you feel animus to people who make different health choices than what you want.

 

[Argent]

As soon as they stop treating smokers, alcoholics, drug addicts, the obese that won’t diet/exercise, people that take part in “risky” activities like extreme sports, etc

This approach is fallacious. Those things you and others have mentioned do not have the same impact on an entire population as a pandemic.

 

[Court Jester]

I understand the urge to say "toss 'em in the parking lot" and I think I once made that very quip, but we can't make ourselves into monsters as we attack other people for behaving monstrously.

While I agree with your approval of treating the unvaccinated, I take issue with you assuming that their personal choices are "monstrous".

Individuals make personal healthcare choices all the time. YOU and I are free to have OURSELVES vaccinated at any time. What others decide to do or not do does not make them a monster.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Of course they should treat them. However, that does not mean that insurers should be required to pay for it. Insurers should not have to pay for COVID treatment if a member opts to not be vaccinated. As the saying goes, freedom isn't free.

I agree that more pre-existing conditions (aka actuarial risk factors) should be allowed for consideration (other than age and tobacco use) for increased medical care insurance premium rates, but not that care for those conditions should be excluded from insurance coverage. Why one’s age and tobacco use were included, but drug/alcohol abuse and obesity were excluded by the PPACA law remains a political mystery.

 

[BirdinHand]

This approach is fallacious. Those things you and others have mentioned do not have the same impact on an entire population as a pandemic.

131K die annually of lung cancer, with approximately 235K cases annually
659K die annually from heart disease
300K die annually from obesity
95K die from alcoholism
70K die from drug addiction


SO....more people die from those conditions in any given year than from Covid. If we stop treating them, we will have plenty of space for any Covid patients in hospitals. Heart disease, alone, has killed more people in ONE YEAR than Covid has in the US since the onset.

 

[Kreton]

131K die annually of lung cancer, with approximately 235K cases annually
659K die annually from heart disease
300K die annually from obesity
95K die from alcoholism
70K die from drug addiction


SO....more people die from those conditions in any given year than from Covid. If we stop treating them, we will have plenty of space for any Covid patients in hospitals. Heart disease, alone, has killed more people in ONE YEAR than Covid has in the US since the onset.

Can you point me to that time that our hospitals were so over run with heart attack or lung cancer cases that they were cancelling appointments, turning away people from emergency rooms, and treating people in hallways? I'll wait while you look that up.

 

[Kreton]

I understand the urge to say "toss 'em in the parking lot" and I think I once made that very quip, but we can't make ourselves into monsters as we attack other people for behaving monstrously.

I disagree. When their choices are affecting the quality of healthcare available to others, something needs to happen.

 

[BirdinHand]

Can you point me to that time that our hospitals were so over run with Covid cases that they were cancelling appointments, turning away people from emergency rooms, and treating people in hallways? I'll wait while you look that up.

Didn't happen around me, so I don't know. I know that elective procedures were cancelled in the beginning of Covid, but since late spring - early summer 2020, it has been business as usual (although with varying levels of patient visitors).

 

[CaughtInThe]

hospitals and their staffs are gonna bust their asses to save as many people as they can as always.


and whiney ass bitches are gonna sit at home and complain about them.

 

[ttwtt78640]

This approach is fallacious. Those things you and others have mentioned do not have the same impact on an entire population as a pandemic.

Any patient requiring inpatient medical care resources makes those resources unavailable to other patients. The question was should (specific) alleged patient negligence be considered to be grounds for refusing inpatient treatment of a resulting (related?) medical condition.

 

[Argent]

131K die annually of lung cancer, with approximately 235K cases annually
659K die annually from heart disease
300K die annually from obesity
95K die from alcoholism
70K die from drug addiction

I didn't say we shouldn't treat the unvaxed. I said we should be selective in triaging. You can't catch any of those diseases you mentioned from those who have them. You can catch covid from someone else. That was the fallacious point of your earlier comment.

 

[Ginger Ale]

Insurance companies should NOT deny coverage for unvaccinated people. In the past decade we finally moved beyond the idea that preexisting conditions and personal behavior (with the exception of smoking, for some reason) should be factors in insurance coverage. Why would we want to turn the clock backward on that and start micromanaging how people live their lives and charge them accordingly?

The only things that should impact health insurance premiums are age and zip code, and I am open to eliminating those as well and just charging everyone a flat premium without regard to the actuarial tables.

Yep, I agree. We should just have a flat fee for everyone, stupid or not. I mean, we are all stupid at some point.