Should GITMO be closed?

[Iriemon]

Would you pay for the costs involved to prosecute thousands of Japanese and german prisoners?

Good point. Why shold we be just and fair if it might cost some money.

I bet you'd be willing to just do away with all trials, eh? Heck they cost lots of money.

But I don't think our Govt is claiming the Guantanamo prisoners are prisoners of war.

 

[Navy Pride]

I know the difference, however I was not entirely certain you were talking about POWs. I decided to post arguments that could handle either case.

Also, why not actually address my point? Our treatment of people at Gitmo is not even close to POW treatment in WW2. And again, we are not at war.

You have no clue what are treatment of prisoners in Gitmo is like......From what I have seen its not that bad..........Your just drinking the left wing koolaid.....

 

[Kasmos]

Your just drinking the left wing koolaid.....

It's ok Rathi, the left wing koolaid is better then the right wing urine.

 

[Navy Pride]

If you are not, then you are against some very important tenets of the Constitution.

The constitution does not apply to the scum being held at Gitmo as it did not apply to the German and Japanese POWs of WW2..........

 

[Navy Pride]

There are also most definitely innocent people interned in Gitmo. People that are not terrorists. 80% of people captured where done so by Afghan Bounty hunters who were only keen in making in making a few dollars. Some of the people interned, the US has no evidence for at all that they are terrorists. Some even have proven their innocence and been freed by the US, no composition of their captivity.

Gitmo goes against everything the US is about. The symbol of Gitmo creates more terrorists than it can contain.

a link please......

 

[Navy Pride]

Good point. Why shold we be just and fair if it might cost some money.

I bet you'd be willing to just do away with all trials, eh? Heck they cost lots of money.

But I don't think our Govt is claiming the Guantanamo prisoners are prisoners of war.

You leftys love spending money as long as its the taxpayers and not yours....

 

[Iriemon]

You have no clue what are treatment of prisoners in Gitmo is like......From what I have seen its not that bad..........Your just drinking the left wing koolaid.....

I'm sure what they have shown about Guantanamo on Fox News depicts the prison there as being a real comfy place to hang.

 

[Kasmos]

Hey Navy Pride, you never responded to my post about how you, like many others, think it's ok to not follow the Constitution, but only if it's off our shores....

 

[Iriemon]

Originally Posted by Iriemon
Good point. Why shold we be just and fair if it might cost some money.

I bet you'd be willing to just do away with all trials, eh? Heck they cost lots of money.

But I don't think our Govt is claiming the Guantanamo prisoners are prisoners of war.

You leftys love spending money as long as its the taxpayers and not yours....

That is true, we lefties insist on spending money on wasteful things like trials for the accused. It must drive you righties mad.

What is the basis for your assertion that I am not a taxpayer?

Making stuff up *again*?

Based on my understanding that you receive a monthly check from the government, I'm pretty confident that my net contribution in taxes is substantially more than yours.

 

[rathi]

The constitution does not apply to the scum being held at Gitmo as it did not apply to the German and Japanese POWs of WW2..........

Thats not correct. Nobody in the POW camps were being accused of a crime, unlike Gitmo. Hell, even the worst Nazi's who created the holocaust were given a trial. We treat suspected terrorists, some who have been innocent, worse than Nazis.

You have no clue what are treatment of prisoners in Gitmo is like......From what I have seen its not that bad..........Your just drinking the left wing koolaid.....

You are denying reality. We never waterboarded POWs. We never kept our POW camp conditions a secret. Name rank and serial number, that was all we asked for. And yet again, we are NOT at war. Not a valid comparison.

 

[Navy Pride]

Hey Navy Pride, you never responded to my post about how you, like many others, think it's ok to not follow the Constitution, but only if it's off our shores....

The U. S. constitution does not apply to non American Citizens terrorists who want to kill us.......It applies to American citizens that want to kill us....

 

[Navy Pride]

That is true, we lefties insist on spending money on wasteful things like trials for the accused. It must drive you righties mad.

What is the basis for your assertion that I am not a taxpayer?

Making stuff up *again*?

Based on my understanding that you receive a monthly check from the government, I'm pretty confident that my net contribution in taxes is substantially more than yours.

If you want to spend your money on fair trials for non citizen terrorists who want to kill you so be it but don't spend mine.....

 

[Navy Pride]

Thats not correct. Nobody in the POW camps were being accused of a crime, unlike Gitmo. Hell, even the worst Nazi's who created the holocaust were given a trial. We treat suspected terrorists, some who have been innocent, worse than Nazis.



You are denying reality. We never waterboarded POWs. We never kept our POW camp conditions a secret. Name rank and serial number, that was all we asked for. And yet again, we are NOT at war. Not a valid comparison.

1. What the hell are you talking about.......The POWs in WW2 were captured on the battlefiled.......

The people who were given trials at Nurenberg were the leaders of the Nazi partty.....

2. I don't know that waterboarding takes place in Gitmo.......I believe that is a left wing myth but even if it did if it save American lives so be it.......Its a hell of a lot better then having your head chopped off......

 

[Hatuey]

The U. S. constitution does not apply to non American Citizens terrorists who want to kill us.......It applies to American citizens that want to kill us....

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

Dunno....says all criminal prosecutions....

 

[Kasmos]

If you want to spend your money on fair trials for non citizen terrorists who want to kill you so be it but don't spend mine.....

Haha, it really is tough trying to put sense into your head isn't it Navy? Wonder if, let's say, those "non citizen terrorists who want to kill you" DIDN'T WANT TO KILL US AND WEREN'T TERRORISTS? How do explain putting them through that treatment?? And how do they prove their INNOCENCE if not given a trial!!!

You basically are saying you have faith in our government to ONLY PUT PEOPLE WHO ARE TERRORISTS in Gitmo! That's ridiculous! People have been proven INNOCENT in there, so obviously we fail at that already!

 

[Iriemon]

The U. S. constitution does not apply to non American Citizens terrorists who want to kill us.......It applies to American citizens that want to kill us....

Same rational was used for upholding slavery in the Dred Scott decision.

It was just as wrong, IMO.

"... we hold these truths as self-evident, that all men are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights ..."

 

[rathi]

What the hell are you talking about.......The POWs in WW2 were captured on the battlefiled.......

So? We still treated them much better.

The people who were given trials at Nurenberg were the leaders of the Nazi partty.....

And we even treated them better! And they were some of the most vile people in all of history!

2. I don't know that waterboarding takes place in Gitmo.......I believe that is a left wing myth but even if it did if it save American lives so be it.......Its a hell of a lot better then having your head chopped off......

Cheney confirms use of waterboarding | csmonitor.com

Cheney himself admitted to waterboarding being in use. You have nothing to back up that it saves lives, and it worse that the treatment of Nazi's in ww2.

 

[Navy Pride]

So? We still treated them much better.



And we even treated them better! And they were some of the most vile people in all of history!



Cheney confirms use of waterboarding | csmonitor.com

Cheney himself admitted to waterboarding being in use. You have nothing to back up that it saves lives, and it worse that the treatment of Nazi's in ww2.

1. Prove it............


2. See #1

3. Which do you prefer waterboarding or having you head cut off?

4. If I knew waterboarding would stop another 9/11/01 I would be all for it.......

 

[Navy Pride]

Same rational was used for upholding slavery in the Dred Scott decision.It was just as wrong, IMO.

"... we hold these truths as self-evident, that all men are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights ..."

Horse ****..........

 

[Iriemon]

3. Which do you prefer waterboarding or having you head cut off?

4. If I knew waterboarding would stop another 9/11/01 I would be all for it.......

1) Go to this thread: http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls...titution-worth-giving-up-complete-safety.html

2) Vote "yes"

and your sentiment will be registered.

 

[AcePylut]

Yes it should be closed.

This will allow these people to be held until one of two things happen: They die of old age, or, AQ and the Taliban surrender.

I don't see AQ or the Taliban ever offering up a surrender (if they do, great. We win), so we can hold them as POW's until they die of old age.

Also, any effective intel we need to torture out of them can be done before they get to Gitmo, in Afghanistan or Iraq, and we can wash our hands of it with plausible deniability.

 

[rathi]

1. Prove it............

Read the Geneva convention. We followed that. The Geneva convention didn't allow waterboarding.

2. See #1

The Nazi leaders were given trials at Nuremberg. The people in Gitmo have not been given trials.

3. Which do you prefer waterboarding or having you head cut off?

That has nothing to do with our argument. Terrorists treat our prisoners worse, but that doesn't matter. Our standards are not set by terrorists.

4. If I knew waterboarding would stop another 9/11/01 I would be all for it.......

However its not going to stop another 9/11, so I'm not for it.

 

[Iriemon]

Originally Posted by Navy Pride
The U. S. constitution does not apply to non American Citizens terrorists who want to kill us.......It applies to American citizens that want to kill us....

Originally Posted by Iriemon
Same rational was used for upholding slavery in the Dred Scott decision.It was just as wrong, IMO.

Horse ****..........

No, it absolutely was the exact same rational.

The Supreme Court upheld slavery on the basis that the US consitution does not apply to non American citizens, which they decided included negros.

In March of 1857, Scott lost the decision as seven out of nine Justices on the Supreme Court declared no slave or descendant of a slave could be a U.S. citizen, or ever had been a U.S. citizen. As a non-citizen, the court stated, Scott had no rights ...

http://www.historyplace.com/lincoln/dred.htm

 

[Navy Pride]

Read the Geneva convention. We followed that. The Geneva convention didn't allow waterboarding.



The Nazi leaders were given trials at Nuremberg. The people in Gitmo have not been given trials.



That has nothing to do with our argument. Terrorists treat our prisoners worse, but that doesn't matter. Our standards are not set by terrorists.



However its not going to stop another 9/11, so I'm not for it.

1. The Geneva Conv. applies to wars between countries.We are not at war with a country..

2. 99.9 percent of the POWS in WW2 received no trial nor should they.....Only their leaders were tried in Nurenberg.......

3. Yeah, right.......

 

[Iriemon]

1. The Geneva Conv. applies to wars between countries.We are not at war with a country..

2. 99.9 percent of the POWS in WW2 received no trial nor should they.....Only their leaders were tried in Nurenberg.......

3. Yeah, right.......

We are not at war, so the GC does not apply; but we are at war, so it's fair to compare treatment of POWs in WWII.

How can one argue with such sound logical reasoning?