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Should federal Gov. fund private entities holding people against their will?

Should federal Gov. fund private entities holding people against their will?

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The Mark

Sporadic insanity normal.
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One of my anger triggers is private prisons, detention centers, etc.

Whatever the euphemism we use to describe it, a private entity holding people against their will is in my mind completely unacceptable.
That federal (or for that matter, state and/or local) funds (in theory part of that is my taxes) pay for or in any way support these angers me greatly.

Over the past few years I've heard/read about privately owned facilities where people are given the barest minimum (or less) of necessary food, exercise, or other such. Paid minimum wage to work and then charged most if not all of that in "housing costs". And of course mistreated by the guards, sometimes to the point of death (some of this happens in government-run prisons, of course, but they can be held accountable easier - in theory).

Which doesn't even touch the issue of elected or appointed officials working with these private entities to ensure enough prisoners are provided to maximize profit. I remember a version of that years ago in my state involving juvenile detention.
Which is even worse, but doesn't lessen the problems I speak of.

A few links that a couple brief google searches provided:
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...ificant-issues-at-immigrant-detention-centers
https://www.hrw.org/report/2017/05/...tandard-medical-care-us-immigration-detention
The Problem with Private Prisons ? Justice Policy Institute
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.852cd76c8cfa
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/03/us/mississippi-private-prison-abuse.html

This has to stop.


So, to the poll:
Should federal Gov. fund private entities holding people against their will?
Yes - please explain.
No - please explain.
Other - please explain.
 

Only thirteen of the federal government’s 146 prisons are privately run according to your last link. Doesn't seem to be that widespread of a problem.
Your first two links didn't give federal prisons glowing remarks either.
Probably all prisons and detention centers, both private and government run, need better oversight, imo.
 
No one should be upset of a privately run prison, as long as they can provide the same for less.

And yes they should be held responsible for every valid claim made against them just as State run Prisons are.
 
Big Corporate private prisons can lobby to get laws passed to make things illegal to promote their business. They get contracts for minimum occupancy like 96% occupancy. They make more profit by providing fewer services. They also pay lower wages and reduced benefits for employees. OTOH, they represent the 1%. A CORPORATE state, a/k/a fascism representing business over the 99% public.
/
 
The Mark said:
So, to the poll:
Should federal Gov. fund private entities holding people against their will?
Yes - please explain.
No - please explain.
Other - please explain.
Click to expand...

No.
For the same reason I wouldn't privatize law enforcement, the military, or the courts.
These are things I deem too dangerous to let out of your control. Unlike say various forms of caregiving, construction, administration, etc.

I remember that juvenile incarceration scam. If it truly lived up to what I read, it would be a horrifying example of what you speak of, and everyone involved in setting it up should die in (a government run) prison.
 

I am against privately owned prisons.Especially seeing how many of them have a minimum occupancy clause in their contracts, which encourages judges to lock up people because of a quota instead of because they actually deserve it. I have no problem with criminals being locked up. They should be locked up because they deserve it,not because of profit. I also don't think profit driven industries should be in charge of certain government functions like housing criminals,speed/traffic enforcement and etc(maybe I seen one too many Robocop movies). However your poll is deceptive.It makes it sound like corporations are kidnapping and holding innocent people against their will. Instead the poll question should be "Should the federal government fund or not fund privately owned prisons?".
 
Just like any government run jail, private jails should be monitored and any problems addressed. But there is nothing inherently wrong with privately run incarceration. It's also much easier to sue a private company for damages than it is government.
 
Oh, good God, no. But, wait, there's money to be made...They could even make money from the increased detention of children. Scum of the earth, making blood money kind of money. It would be our taxpayer's money too.
 
Rosie1 said:
Oh, good God, no. But, wait, there's money to be made...They could even make money from the increased detention of children. Scum of the earth, making blood money kind of money. It would be our taxpayer's money too.
Click to expand...

I would bet they're already making money detaining children.
 
This might work IF politicians couldn't be bought with the money made by cutting the corners the politicians were paid to make possible.
 
The Mark said:
This might work IF politicians couldn't be bought with the money made by cutting the corners the politicians were paid to make possible.
Click to expand...

That problem exists pretty much throughout government. And I'd even say it applies to the private sector. I would like to say that tight oversight prevents all these problems; but then who watches the watchers? Unfortunately, a society can only be as honest and ethical as the vast majority of it's citizens. That doesn't bode too well for us.
 

Should the government fund entities who perform abortions, against US law?
 
Moderate Right said:
Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the left. Therefore, it is not a non-sequitur deflection.
Click to expand...

It had nothing to do with the topic and was completely off base, it served as a tool to not engage in the discussion, but to deflect away from it.

Therefore, it is a non-sequitur deflection. Which is an extremely intellectually dishonest and weak tool of debate.

Good job.
 

I pointed out two very similar situations, therefore they are not completely off base. One is where the left are against one while on the other hand, in the very similar situation, the left is for it. Call it whatever you want. I call it yet another example of left wing hypocrisy.
 

They are not two "very similar" situations. Don't lie. It's completely out of the blue, snatched up so you don't have to deal with the initial question of this thread.

I call it yet another example of extreme intellectually dishonest and lazy debate tactic.
 

Claiming judges lock up people solely to fill available prison slots seems a bit of a stretch.

Resetting stop lights and cameras to increase revenue should be stopped. So too robo speed infringement. Both find the vehicle guilty. then fine the owner, not necessarily the driver. A violation of the Constitution.
 
jimbo said:
Claiming judges lock up people solely to fill available prison slots seems a bit of a stretch.
Click to expand...

Private prisons have minimum occupancy clauses in their contracts in which the state can be forced to pay for unused beds.How is that stretch to say that judges lock up people to full those lock up quotas?


Private Prison Contracts and Minimum Occupancy Clauses - AUBLR
One specific clause that many of the contracts between private prisons and federal and state governments include is a minimum occupancy clause.[5] These clauses state that the government contracting with a prison must maintain a specific percentage of occupancy at that prison. A version of this clause used by prisons is a per-diem rate clause, which establishes high, fixed per diem rates per person housed in the prison up to a specified percentage of prison occupancy, then a lower, fixed per diem rate for every individual past that threshold percentage.[6]

Minimum occupancy clauses are a prominent feature of private prison contracts because they help guarantee profits and alleviate the risk of revenue fluctuation.[7] One study found that approximately sixty-five percent of contracts between private prisons and federal or state governments contained a form of minimum occupancy clause.[8] Private prison companies and federal and state governments have added these clauses through contracts for new facilities and through amendments in renegotiations of contracts.[9]

Resetting stop lights and cameras to increase revenue should be stopped. So too robo speed infringement. Both find the vehicle guilty. then fine the owner, not necessarily the driver. A violation of the Constitution.
Click to expand...

Sounds almost the same way Civil Asset forfeiture happens. They decide they want your money or some other property and charge the property itself with crime instead of the owner of that property because its much easier for the state to seize that property if they don't have to prove guilt of the owner in a criminal trial.
 

You're claiming that judges keep a roster of available beds, then establish a quota to fill those slots with people who don't deserve to be in prison. Do you honestly believe that?
 
I would rather we not privatize prisons, but I understand why it is sometimes done.

I think we are talking about something like 7% of Federal prisons are privately ran accounting for 18% of prisoners held (the stats are a bit all over the place on this depending on source.) Regardless it does present a conflict of interest between profit from prisons and the social / economic concerns of our ranking in prisoners per capita in this nation.

But for this subject it seems to be a product of the problem, an interest to ensure people are held.
 

Private prison contracts do not generally demand occupancy, only that the space is paid for.

CAF is far worse than robo cams, it doesn't even need a photo. But it is a different topic.
 

Maybe you're right. I found the poll question to be very difficult and have yet to vote. In fact, I probably won't vote because I really don't know which way to vote. If paying private entities to do this saves money and could be done right, I would vote yes. I have serious reservations that this would be the case. Even if it initially cost less money to do, the oversight itself would cost money, probably negating the original cost savings. And, of course many posters have already pointed out possibly serious conflicts of interest, although even though they are legitimate concerns, there are already a lot of concerns with the system in place that is not involved with privatization. Personally I think the whole justice system needs revamping, particularly the sentencing part.
 

I don't think there is room for private prisons, and some of the ways those prisons "save money" can be rather disturbing. The power to exercise force against the rights of the individual to convict and jail is that of the governments. It's the government's responsibility to do it and there needs to be significant oversight. Our prison system is in dire need of repair, along with our laws that resort to jail sentences. America has the highest per capital jailed population in the world. So there's a lot of reform necessary, and part of that would involve the removal of private prisons. I think that power is given to government and there it must stay.
 
i don't support private prisons.
 
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