Should every fetus have a right to life?

[Removable Mind]

...whatever...



Congratulations!

You finally said something intelligent.

Thank you. I'm waiting for you to reciprocate.

 

[Meister]

If you were being honest, it wouldn't matter if there were 51 Justices and 5 dissented.

Would you have agreed with RvW decision if all 9 came to the decision it did in 1973? No, you wouldn't.

My point is that they so often opine with bias, such as the imminent domains law where states had to go back and pass laws to nullify the effect.
Or, the separation of church and state where they literally redefined the intent of the FFs.

But thanks for deflecting with my question to you.

 

[Meister]

And you are the one who has a problem with our form of government and the Constitution.

Too much central government....yes
Constitution....no.

 

[Removable Mind]

My point is that they so often opine with bias, such as the imminent domains law where states had to go back and pass laws to nullify the effect.
Or, the separation of church and state where they literally redefined the intent of the FFs.

Uh huh......

Then you and I are reading from different sources regarding the FFs intent.

 

[Removable Mind]

Too much central government....yes
Constitution....no.

Too much government? Vote out the Republicans who keep growing it at exponential rates.

 

[Meister]

Uh huh......

Then you and I are reading from different sources regarding the FFs intent.

There is no doubt about that...knowing what they were dealing with in England and how the SC ending up with what we have now?
There is no doubt that the church shouldn't dictate policy to the government like what they had in England....
Not what the debacle is now

 

[Meister]

Too much government? Vote out the Republicans who keep growing it at exponential rates.

Both parties are are to blame....strange you could only bring yourself to blame one party. interesting

 

[Removable Mind]

Both parties are are to blame....strange you could only bring yourself to blame one party. interesting

Hmmmmmm...Okay. I have no love for either. If I could wiggle my nose and all in office today...regardless of affiliation would be gone tomorrow.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Granny-Grandma-Gram.....you figure it out.

Her screen name is Okgrannie. Calling her 'gram' is done to be insulting, IMO.

16 oz of maryjane-hemp-mother nature-pot, doesn't equal a gram

0.0352739619=Oz FYI

Yes, I was thinking of something else. Thank you for the correction.

 

[Meister]

Her screen name is Okgrannie. Calling her 'gram' is done to be insulting, IMO.




Yes, I was thinking of something else. Thank you for the correction.

Your opinion is duly noted.
It wasn't an insult on my behalf...that's what I called my own grandmother.
You saying I insulted her, too? Good grief

 

[vasuderatorrent]

I don't think that it's fair to consider a potential for life to have rights until it has actually been granted life. What are your thoughts?

Not all fetuses. What about the ones that have committed felonies? They forfeit their constitutional rights at that point. However, I will go ahead and vote no. Just because I have never heard of a fetus committing any felonies doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

 

[Meister]

I don't think that it's fair to consider a potential for life to have rights until it has actually been granted life. What are your thoughts?

A fetus doesn't have rights unless it's killed without the mothers consent....then it's called murder. Damn confusing

 

[minnie616]

A fetus doesn't have rights unless it's killed without the mothers consent....then it's called murder. Damn confusing

A fetus never has any rights but the state has a right to prosecute when an unborn is killed during a crime against the pregnant woman.

 

[JayDubya]

Most don't even know what "Right to Privacy" is derived from:

Derived from? Well, it's hard to know exactly what the Supreme Court had to eat that day in question (and the day before), but we know the "Constitutional right to privacy" came from their collective colons and ultimately their rectal orifices, as there is no such right specifically enumerated in the text.

 

[Meister]

A fetus never has any rights but the state has a right to prosecute when an unborn is killed during a crime against the pregnant woman.

So it's called an assault and not murder?

 

[minnie616]

So it's called an assault and not murder?

They are charged with violating the Federal UVVA or a states feticide law.

They are not charged with murder and cannot receive the death penalty if convicted.

For example Welden ( the Florida man who was charged [but they dropped in a plea bargin ]when his girlfriend's fetus died when he gave abortion pills he told her were antibiotics ) was not charged with murder.

He was charged with intentionally causing the death of " and intentionally attempted to kill and did kill,
the unborn child in utero of R.L.
In violation of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 1841 and 1111 ( a )."

http://www.frcblog.com/media/filer/...ohn_andrew_welden_indictment_047112045600.pdf

 

[Ikari]

I don't think that it's fair to consider a potential for life to have rights until it has actually been granted life. What are your thoughts?

When is an organism "granted life"?

 

[timslash]

Well, the fetus is live, fetus is not a person already, but he is live. And the killing of fetus, we need to consider as killing of human. Unborn child have the right for live, as well, as all of us.

 

[Pozessed]

When is an organism "granted life"?

Rephrase. I don't think that it's fair to consider a potential for human life to have rights until it has reached a stage in life that the majority of our populations considers viable for citizenship.

 

[Ikari]

Rephrase. I don't think that it's fair to consider a potential for human life to have rights until it has reached a stage in life that the majority of our populations considers viable for citizenship.

So when does one get to be a citizen? And if public opinion changed on that, then when we can kill a fetus or whatever by that measure, it can be OK? So long as society is cool with it?

 

[minnie616]

Well, the fetus is live, fetus is not a person already, but he is live. And the killing of fetus, we need to consider as killing of human. Unborn child have the right for live, as well, as all of us.

Not according to the US law.

The Supreme Court rejected the fetal right to life argument in the Roe v Wade decision.

 

[Pozessed]

So when does one get to be a citizen? And if public opinion changed on that, then when we can kill a fetus or whatever by that measure, it can be OK? So long as society is cool with it?

So long as the majorities agree, and the government doesn't make laws to its own agenda that opposes its majorities, laws will be placed to convict or protect abortion. So yes, as long as society has weighed the repercussions and democratically agree, and the government is not opposing its societies democracy, it should be considered reasonable to kill a fetus.

 

[Ikari]

So long as the majorities agree, and the government doesn't make laws to its own agenda that opposes its majorities, laws will be placed to convict or protect abortion. So yes, as long as society has weighed the repercussions and democratically agree, and the government is not opposing its societies democracy, it should be considered reasonable to kill a fetus.

OK, and if society feels that one isn't really a "citizen" till 10 years old, that's cool too then? So long as it's democratic and "repercussions" are weighed, yes?

 

[Meister]

So long as the majorities agree, and the government doesn't make laws to its own agenda that opposes its majorities, laws will be placed to convict or protect abortion. So yes, as long as society has weighed the repercussions and democratically agree, and the government is not opposing its societies democracy, it should be considered reasonable to kill a fetus.

Kinda like obamacare, huh?

 

[minnie616]

A few facts about abortion and the civilized world.

A few facts abort abortion and a civilized world.

Some Basic Information about Abortion Around the World


Abortion is probably the world's most common surgical procedure. About 46 million abortions are performed every year, 20 million of them illegal. Abortion is practiced widely by women all over the world, across all social classes, and regardless of laws against abortion.

Since the beginning of recorded history, abortion has been commonly practiced by almost all societies, including ancient China, Egypt, Greece, Rome, and countless others. In fact, abortion could be called a fundamental aspect of human behaviour.

But because abortion is still illegal or restricted in many countries today, two out of every five abortions in the world are performed unsafely -- by an untrained provider or in an unclean setting. Every year, about 78,000 women die from unsafe and illegal abortions. For every death caused by unsafe abortion, several women are injured or left infertile.

And countless unwanted children are born to women unable to obtain an abortion. Many of these kids will live a life marred by poverty, abuse, and neglect.

About 35 out of every 1000 women of childbearing age have an abortion each year.
That's an average of one abortion for every woman over her lifetime.

The abortion rate does not differ significantly between developed and less developed regions, but where it is illegal, it is very unsafe. One-third of the world's women do not have access to legal or safe abortion, and these women die at the rate of 330 deaths per 100,000 abortion procedures. In contrast, the death rate from legal abortion averages 0.7 deaths per 100,000 procedures. Over 30% of women who have an unsafe abortion suffer serious complications, such as hemorrhaging, sepsis, or infertility. In contrast, in countries where abortion is legal and safe, the complication rate is about 1-3%, and most of the complications are of a minor nature and do not require hospitalization.

Many women who suffer complications from unsafe, illegal abortion are afraid to come in for medical treatment, so they suffer or die without ever being counted as an abortion statistic. When they do make it to hospital, they take up to two-thirds of the maternity beds, and up to 50% of the hospital's maternity budget. Obviously, this seriously compromises other maternity and emergency services.

In most cases, unsafe abortion equals illegal abortion, but even where abortion is legal, it may be unavailable or too expensive, forcing many women to still resort to unsafe abortion. The quality and skill of medical care also affect abortion safety. Unsafe abortion is defined by the World Health Organization as an "abortion not provided through approved facilities and/or persons." Legality is not the only factor that makes abortion safe, but it's the major one, by far.

Legal abortion is also a very critical factor in improving survival rates for women. About 600,000 maternal deaths related to pregnancy and childbirth occur every year in the world, mostly in the developing world. 13% of these deaths are due to unsafe abortion. But almost all maternal deaths are preventable, simply by providing safe abortion; improving pre-natal care, nutrition, and contraceptive use; and preventing common obstetrical complications.

How did the world manage to arrive at this troubling state of affairs?

After all, abortion has been generally legal throughout history.
It was only during the 19th century that abortion was made illegal in most parts of the world for the first time. Doctors led the crusade to criminalize abortion, partly to protect women from dangerous abortion techniques, but also to exercise more control over the practice of medicine, since abortions were being performed by mostly female practitioners, such as midwives. Restrictions against abortions started to lift after the 2nd World War, primarily in socialist countries like the former Soviet Union. Most western and European countries liberalized their abortion laws over the following decades, an ongoing trend that is now spreading to developing countries.


By 1986, 36 countries had liberal abortion laws, and as of 1997, an additional 10 developed and 9 developing countries had also eased their laws.



The driving forces behind liberalization, then and now, were the threat to public health of illegal abortion, increasing social support for women's rights, availability of modern contraceptives, concern for the equal treatment of both poor women and rich women, ...

Legal Abortion: the Sign of a Civilized Society

http://www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org/civilize.html