Should Dems move to the Right of Biden?

[Gimmesometruth]

the point is not that impoverished American citizens won't take the jobs out of "desire" but because the pay is too low to make the job feasible

It is the same thing, the editorialized "desire" is want, or "demand" for those jobs, yes, of course demand is low because the pay is low, that is the point. Again, the context is she is complaining about the WH's removal of immigrant workers, it will be inflationary. You can't remove nearly half of the AG workforce and expect anything else.

Your "its a demand to keep an underclass" is just another variation on "Dem's wanna keep Blacks on the plantation" crap, just repackaged. Her comment made clear her view on that idea.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

There's no "streamlining"

I know there is no streamling, Donny told the House to kill the bill. We haven't had significant immigration reform in decades, but this is pointless, we have shifted to a lawless police state operation posing as BP/ICE.

 

[Jack Fabulous]

No. No. No.

They should stay the course. It is working.

 

[Ouroboros]

Ah, so you wanted to vote for a convicted felon and rapist 3 times. Okay. Totally different than what I said

Typical Mad Lib misreading. I meant to vote for Hilary at the time and did so, and the reasons are not particularly relevant. Then I began to see, during Trump's first term, how incredibly venal and stupid the current Mad Libs were, so I determined that the Dems, for whom I had voted consistently, were irretrievably corrupted away from the former standards of Classical Liberals. So, yes, both different from what you said and what you meant. And you might want to remember that in his first two campaigns Trump had no outstanding charges against him. Those all came about when he decided to run against Biden a second time, which in turn caused the corrupt Dems to marshal lawfare against him in the cases you reference. Also, none of the verdicts of those cases were supported by solid evidence, only by fanatical dogma.

 

[Ouroboros]

I guess he wanted to make sure that trump would be an awesome president before he spent his vote.

No need to guess, read post 679.

 

[Ouroboros]

I know there is no streamling, Donny told the House to kill the bill. We haven't had significant immigration reform in decades, but this is pointless, we have shifted to a lawless police state operation posing as BP/ICE.

Yes, here once again is the desperate Mad Lib lie that the "bipartisan" bill would have solved all the problems that Biden and Harris created. Yes, I prefer Trump's way whatever its disadvantages, for the stupid permissiveness of the Dems had already allowed far too many illegals into the country, and there's no reason to imagine that the flood would have slowed had Cackling Kamala been elected.

 

[Ouroboros]

It is the same thing, the editorialized "desire" is want, or "demand" for those jobs, yes, of course demand is low because the pay is low, that is the point. Again, the context is she is complaining about the WH's removal of immigrant workers, it will be inflationary. You can't remove nearly half of the AG workforce and expect anything else.

Your "its a demand to keep an underclass" is just another variation on "Dem's wanna keep Blacks on the plantation" crap, just repackaged. Her comment made clear her view on that idea.

The demand is low because the employers know they can get away with it. You Libs sing songs of total economic chaos if the illegals are ousted, but I don't believe you care about economics. It's just the same old attempt to paint yourselves as benefactors of POC. Your foolish liberality has allowed numerous criminals and foreign agents into the country, but you don't care as long as you can pretend to be "liberators." Crockett is the only one bringing up plantation practices, which she does in a bizarre reversal of the truth. The people kicking illegals out of the country are not the ones trying to maintain plantation practices.

 

[The Brad Dad]

Typical Mad Lib misreading. I meant to vote for Hilary at the time and did so, and the reasons are not particularly relevant. Then I began to see, during Trump's first term, how incredibly venal and stupid the current Mad Libs were, so I determined that the Dems, for whom I had voted consistently, were irretrievably corrupted away from the former standards of Classical Liberals. So, yes, both different from what you said and what you meant. And you might want to remember that in his first two campaigns Trump had no outstanding charges against him. Those all came about when he decided to run against Biden a second time, which in turn caused the corrupt Dems to marshal lawfare against him in the cases you reference. Also, none of the verdicts of those cases were supported by solid evidence, only by fanatical dogma.

So it was Trump's first term in which he lied to the nation about the threat covid posed while thousands of Americans were dying from it daily that you came to see the lies and deception of the Democratic Party. LOLOL Also: No, Trump hadn't been a convicted felon when you voted for him, but he had a children's cancer charity shut down for fraud. Along with his phony crooked university. But I'm sure those events wouldn't have mounted much challenge to your political awakening of voting for a racist grifter who wears make up.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

The demand is low because the employers know they can get away with it.

Because the undocumented workers are/were at a greater disadvantage, yeah, duh.

You Libs sing songs of total economic chaos if the illegals are ousted, but I don't believe you care about economics.

I care a lot about economics, I spend a lot of time debating economics.

It's just the same old attempt to paint yourselves as benefactors of POC.

Point of contention? Weird, pointless comments.

Your foolish liberality

lol

has allowed numerous criminals and foreign agents into the country,

Um, AG is run by and large by conservatives, they have been the big beneficiaries of the cheap labor, that benefits their profits. This absurd "has allowed" is useless noise. Criminals and agents have been entering the country before it was founded. Stupid argument.

but you don't care as long as you can pretend to be "liberators."

"Liberators" doesn't apply to the situation, I don't think you know what the word means.

Crockett is the only one bringing up plantation practices,

It is a common reference you use all the time.

which she does in a bizarre reversal of the truth. The people kicking illegals out of the country are not the ones trying to maintain plantation practices.

Well, the point remains, the police state tactics of the admin in removing nearly half of AG workers is going to result in inflation and less food available on the shelves. If you think this shock troop strategy is going to benefit the US economy, you have no idea how supply and demand works.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Yes, here once again is the desperate Mad Lib lie that the "bipartisan" bill would have solved all the problems that Biden and Harris created.

Biden didn't create the immigration issue, it is over a hundred years old. It has been a series of policies based on racist ideology, much less on economics. Now, the economics are being completely ignored and the racism is on full blast.

Yes, I prefer Trump's way whatever its disadvantages,

Yes, you would prefer the racist way over a rational, more economically sound policy, no surprise there.

for the stupid permissiveness of the Dems had already allowed far too many illegals into the country, and there's no reason to imagine that the flood would have slowed had Cackling Kamala been elected.

We are not focused on immigration/entry, we are discussing the police state removal of essential workers and the macro effects on food supply and costs.

 

[Ouroboros]

So it was Trump's first term in which he lied to the nation about the threat covid posed while thousands of Americans were dying from it daily that you came to see the lies and deception of the Democratic Party. LOLOL

All politicians lie, and nothing Trump said about Covid caused anyone to die. Given that half the country hated him, any Lefties who died after Trump supposedly distorted "the truth" would have died no matter what he said. As for the Rightie half of the population-- you're trying to tell me you have this boundless well of compassion for any Righties who listened to Trump and-- did what? Drank bleach, like the lying mass media claimed he advocated?

Lame deflection from the Charlottesville Hoax, BTW.

Also: No, Trump hadn't been a convicted felon when you voted for him,

Thanks for your concession.

but he had a children's cancer charity shut down for fraud. Along with his phony crooked university. But I'm sure those events wouldn't have mounted much challenge to your political awakening of voting for a racist grifter who wears make up.

Mad Lib laundry lists impress me SO MUCH! And aren't Mad Libs supposed to love anyone in make up? Or is it just the drag queens teaching their sexual practices to kids?

 

[The Brad Dad]

All politicians lie, and nothing Trump said about Covid caused anyone to die

Objectively untrue.

Or is it just the drag queens teaching their sexual practices to kids?

No, that's Matt Gaetz.

 

[Ouroboros]

Because the undocumented workers are/were at a greater disadvantage, yeah, duh.

Why are you saying "duh" as if you understood the argument?

I care a lot about economics, I spend a lot of time debating economics.

Badly, I'm sure.

Point of contention? Weird, pointless comments.

Guess again.

lol

Um, AG is run by and large by conservatives, they have been the big beneficiaries of the cheap labor, that benefits their profits. This absurd "has allowed" is useless noise. Criminals and agents have been entering the country before it was founded. Stupid argument.

Biden and Harris made it far worse, obviously, catering to crazy Mad Libs. Their permissiveness probably pleased a lot of conservatives, and may have garnered Biden some undercover support, but Biden didn't do anything to help conservatives.

"Liberators" doesn't apply to the situation, I don't think you know what the word means.

Mad Libs like to imagine that they are promoting equity by liberating POC from their own cultures and giving them new lives here. What's hard to understand about the word's context for you?

It is a common reference you use all the time.

Exaggerate much? More like "all the time."

Well, the point remains, the police state tactics of the admin in removing nearly half of AG workers is going to result in inflation and less food available on the shelves. If you think this shock troop strategy is going to benefit the US economy, you have no idea how supply and demand works.

Both Liberal and Conservative legislators bear responsibility for letting illegals gain such a toehold in the American economy. When it was just seasonal peach pickers, I'm sure it didn't seem any sort of threat to either party. But no one could have foreseen the development of sanctuary cities and their total devotion to breaking the law and championing criminals.

 

[The Brad Dad]

Both Liberal and Conservative legislators bear responsibility for letting illegals gain such a toehold in the American economy

You mean capitalism. It's why Trump TACO'd on raiding farms. his donors in those industries told him they wanted to keep the cheap labor, so suddenly Mr Law and Order drooled into a mic that maybe farms should keep their illegal workers because this is all real and it's not just about hating brown people.

 

[Ouroboros]

Biden didn't create the immigration issue, it is over a hundred years old. It has been a series of policies based on racist ideology, much less on economics. Now, the economics are being completely ignored and the racism is on full blast.

There's no racism involved in the laws that prevent just any old person from living in the country because they just want to. Thanks for proving my previous statement that all you care about is racial poilitics.

Yes, you would prefer the racist way over a rational, more economically sound policy, no surprise there.

What you want is what LA wants: a complete return to the systemic abuses.

We are not focused on immigration/entry, we are discussing the police state removal of essential workers and the macro effects on food supply and costs.

They're not essential; they're just illegal. Employers just want them because they're cheaper than actual citizens.

 

[The Brad Dad]

There's no racism involved in the laws that prevent just any old person from living in the country because they just want to

Sure because red lining doesn't exist, never did. It's so funny reading conservatives say things like this when just a few years ago they insisted having to wear a little piece of cloth over all their big mouths was the single greatest threat to our rights. But you know, if you're a non white and can't get loans to LIVE somewhere, suck it up, buttercup.

 

[Ouroboros]

Objectively untrue.

Truth from Mad Libs is a many splintered thing.

No, that's Matt Gaetz.

I've heard his name but don't know the reference. I suspect it does not do anything to meliorate the dubious actions of drag queens and their story hours.

 

[Ouroboros]

You mean capitalism. It's why Trump TACO'd on raiding farms. his donors in those industries told him they wanted to keep the cheap labor, so suddenly Mr Law and Order drooled into a mic that maybe farms should keep their illegal workers because this is all real and it's not just about hating brown people.

Maybe the farmers got lenience because they weren't going out of their way, as LA is, to benefit cartels involved in drug trade and sex slavery rings. That too could be deemed capitalism, but it's currently illegal, just like "undocumented" workers.

 

[Ouroboros]

Sure because red lining doesn't exist, never did. It's so funny reading conservatives say things like this when just a few years ago they insisted having to wear a little piece of cloth over all their big mouths was the single greatest threat to our rights. But you know, if you're a non white and can't get loans to LIVE somewhere, suck it up, buttercup.

What in your mind does redlining against Black citizens (of fifty years ago, since that's the key Mad Lib point of bringing up the topic in any Trump argument) have to do with illegals getting let into the country by Biden and then living off the grid?

 

[The Brad Dad]

Maybe the farmers got lenience because they weren't going out of their way, as LA is, to benefit cartels involved in drug trade and sex slavery rings. That too could be deemed capitalism, but it's currently illegal, just like "undocumented" workers.

But you just agreed with me undocumented workers aren't illegal. And what drug and sex trades are you babbling about, sir? They were raiding home depots and TRump's regime needs to keep revoking legal statuses to meet their quota. Maybe Republicans were just lying to us about these "invading forces" and really just hate brown people? Since we are throwing "maybe's" around.

 

[The Brad Dad]

What in your mind does redlining against Black citizens (of fifty years ago, since that's the key Mad Lib point of bringing up the topic in any Trump argument) have to do with illegals getting let into the country by Biden and then living off the grid?

RIght, it doesn't happen anymore and racism is over. Are all of your arguments feelings-based? Do you claim anything at all that has any perch in history or data?

 

[Crunchtime]

I'm told that Dems should move to the right, because it's a winning strategy. Should Dems move to the right of Biden on the following issues:

- Foreign Policy
- Healthcare (Medicare, Medicaid)
- Public Health Policy (e.g. Vaccines)
- Social Security
- Civil Rights
- Economy
- Immigration
- Foreign Policy
- Political Corruption
- Climate Change
- Infrastructure
- Regulations
- Unions / Labor / Workers Rights

Bonus Question #1: What does that coalition look like? The base would undoubtably change from what it currently is. Do they pick up disaffected MAGA voters to replace Progressives?

Bonus Question #2: Would progressives still be blamed for Dems losing after they were formally removed from the coalition?

....

The Myth of the Moderate Republican

Liberal Republicanism’s collapse didn’t spring from some loss of decency in an age of polarization, but from the transformation of class struggle in America.

jacobin.com

The Increasingly Dangerous Myth of the 'Moderate Republican' | Common Dreams

The current notion of a "moderate Republican" is an oxymoron that helps to move the country rightward. Last week, every one of the GOP's so-called "moderates" voted to install House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, who won with the avid support of Donald Trump and got over the finish line by catering to su

www.commondreams.org

It will take 2 or 3 election cycles to get rid of their current “leadership”. Once the Schumer, Pelosi’s, Warrens, Jeffries, Sanders and the rest are voted out, AOC can really take over and kill the party.

Any move to the right by Democrats would be seen as disingenuous at best. They made their bed. Now it’s time for more nightmares.

 

[Crunchtime]

But you just agreed with me undocumented workers aren't illegal. And what drug and sex trades are you babbling about, sir? They were raiding home depots and TRump's regime needs to keep revoking legal statuses to meet their quota. Maybe Republicans were just lying to us about these "invading forces" and really just hate brown people? Since we are throwing "maybe's" around.

You’re in denial just like your hero Gavin Newsom. There should never be “sanctuary” for people that intentionally break the law. It has nothing to do with hate. It’s about restoring order and immigration is the obvious place to begin and LA is a good place to start.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

There's no racism involved

What else would a Lost Causer argue?

 

[Gimmesometruth]

They're not essential;

Lost Causers do not eat food, they exists on the never ending energy of hate.