Should Dems move to the Right of Biden?

[j brown's body]

I think you know you're wrong on this, and for some baffling reason you just find it less embarrassing to double down on a ridiculous take than to say "No, Ruth Bader Ginsburg was not a segregationist."

The alternative, of course, is that you genuinely believe this. Either way, a good reason for politicians not to waste any effort trying to appease crybullies. They won't appreciate it anyway.

I have no clue what you're talking about.

 

[aociswundumho]

What does that even mean? One single vote seldom swings an election. But votes, collectively, do make a statement.

In every election you've ever voted in, the same candidate would have won whether you voted for them, voted against them, or stayed home. If that's true, then your vote has never actually mattered.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

It means vote completely for what you believe.

I prefer to vote more strategically. In the end, you are given a choice between basically two options (in the U.S., anyway), and I vote for the better, or least bad, option.

I took a principled stand in 2016 and voted third party, thinking Clinton had it wrapped up. I didn't like how the Dem primaries were handled. My vote didn't swing anything, but collectively third party voters might have cost her the election and brought about the plague that is trump and trumpism. Few people at the time could have imagined how much damage trump could have done. As a consolation prize, I was looking forward to him destroying the Republican Party from within. Which sort of happened, but he replaced it with something worse.

 

[j brown's body]

I can't stress enough that in THIS case, the ruling was IN FAVOR of trans people. It LIMITS discrimination against them. It had a 6-3 majority including all four of the Democratic-appointed justices at the time. And yet you are comparing it to segregation and pregnancy discrimination. Just incredible. Nothing is ever good enough for trans extremists. Ever.

Yoor stressing notwithstanding, I have shown how it protects discrimination against them and how the court has used similar logic to discriminate against blacks, women and Japanese Americans.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

In every election you've ever voted in, the same candidate would have won whether you voted for them, voted against them, or stayed home. If that's true, then your vote has never actually mattered.

And yet, I get out and vote every election. Call me crazy.

 

[Real blank]

I prefer to vote more strategically. In the end, you are given a choice between basically two options (in the U.S., anyway), and I vote for the better, or least bad, option.

I took a principled stand in 2016 and voted third party, thinking Clinton had it wrapped up. I didn't like how the Dem primaries were handled. My vote didn't swing anything, but collectively third party voters might have cost her the election and brought about the plague that is trump and trumpism. Few people at the time could have imagined how much damage trump could have done. As a consolation prize, I was looking forward to him destroying the Republican Party from within. Which sort of happened, but he replaced it with something worse.

You expect politicians to be brave but you won’t even vote for what believe even when it doesn’t matter ?

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

You expect politicians to be brave but you won’t even vote for what believe even when it doesn’t matter ?

It always matters. Some elections more than others.

When I have the opportunity to vote for a brave candidate, I do so. Usually, that's just in the primaries, unfortunately.

 

[j brown's body]

They already suffer mental illness. These laws have nothing to do with it. And as we know empirically, over 90% of GD cases among minors resolve naturally in adulthood.

So since they already suffer mental illness you're fine with legislation that makes it worse because you care so much about them.

 

[aociswundumho]

And yet, I get out and vote every election. Call me crazy.

Irrational is a better word.

 

[Real blank]

It always matters. Some elections more than others.

When I have the opportunity to vote for a brave candidate, I do so. Usually, that's just in the primaries, unfortunately.

I don't mean to have a go at you, but why not just always vote for what you believe in?

 

[j brown's body]

So what do you do about the occasional 300-lb 8th grader who wants to play football with his much smaller classmates?

Sports involve some risk of injury. Girls get hurt playing against other girls all the time. And there are big size differences among girl athletes, too.

I don't know where you live, but the schools around here are not dominated by these trans-hulks you seem to see everywhere.

Indeed, and all competition involves unfair advantage. Transgender athlete are the least of it.

About the only female athletes I see speak out against them are either tied to anti-trans groups or are hard core Christian Nationalists.

It was never an issue until the right-wing turned it into one.

California has come up with a compromise that seems to please everyone here. She competes and gets an award if she wins, but so do the others as if she's not there.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

I don't mean to have a go at you, but why not just always vote for what you believe in?

Because those candidates don't always exist. So I vote for the best available option.

There are already plenty of people voting for horrible candidates and horrible ideas. Why don't they change?

 

[j brown's body]

It needs to be said: Independents aren't centrist, they aren't where the two parties converge, they don't share the same opinions, and they are not the epitome of pragmatic compromise. Some are to the left of me, some are to the right or Trump. Some are just contrarians. These are not people that should be catered to because it's impossible mission.

I remember people saying, "I'm not voting for Dems or Republicans, I'm voting for RFK Jr."

Because they're freakin' weirdos, not serious people.

Many vote Dem or GOP as faithfully and predictably as party stalwarts do.

 

[Real blank]

Oddly, about the only female athelets I see speak out against them are either tied to anti-trans groups or are hard core Christian Nationalists.

Nice sleight of hand.

 

[j brown's body]

I don't mean to have a go at you, but why not just always vote for what you believe in?

Here's a perplexing dilemma- the Senate candidate you'd like to vote for is of the other party, but you don't want the other party controlling the senate.

 

[j brown's body]

Nice sleight of hand.

How so?

 

[Real blank]

Here's a perplexing dilemma- the Senate candidate you'd like to vote for is of the other party, but you don't want the other party controlling the senate.

It’s sort of a cost benefit analysis. How much do you believe in the individual I’m assuming more than a party

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

It’s sort of a cost benefit analysis. How much do you believe in the individual I’m assuming more than a party

Over the past few decades, party-line voting is the norm.

 

[Real blank]

How so?

Well any female athlete I could mention is likely to have been at least quoted positively by a “anti trans group” that’s why you didn’t just put any female athlete.

 

[Real blank]

Over the past few decades, party-line voting is the norm.

You get my point though

 

[j brown's body]

Hillary came across as aloof during her campaign, but I have watched several interviews/podcasts where she was very likeable and funny. It is a shame
she couldn't get that side of her to come out on the campaign trail. Maybe she thought she had to be serious to be taken seriously.

Interesting that her likability comes up but, is Trump likable? No, but he is relatable. He brilliantly exploits the resentments of cis white males. The guy that just won in NY, kinda copied him by tapping into and exploiting everyone's optimism.

More than anything these days, a leader is seen as a symbol voters can relate to. Hillary symbolized the breaking of the glass ceiling, but not enough Americans bought into the power of that symbolism. Hell, theyd already elected a black president, one step at a time! Thus, she became a symbol of competence and intelligence, which is fine, as far as it goes. While votes appreciate that in a leader, it's boring and don't neccerarily put much value on it. How's it going to effect me?

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

Well any female athlete I could mention is likely to have been at least quoted positively by a “anti trans group” that’s why you didn’t just put any female athlete.

Kids have become much more accepting and understanding of gays, trans, etc. It is likely that these athletes have the general support of their teammates and classmates. It's completely different than when I was in school.

 

[j brown's body]

Well any female athlete I could mention is likely to have been at least quoted positively by a “anti trans group” that’s why you didn’t just put any female athlete.

I don't know what this means. My point is that I have not seen an outpouring of cisfemale atheletes complaining about transgender females in sports. No one seemed bothered by it until the anti-trans movement got into full swing.

 

[Manc Skipper]

I don't mean to have a go at you, but why not just always vote for what you believe in?

I voted for what I believe in by voting red Tory in preference to the Greens, who had little chance of beating the incumbent blue Tory. He's now gone and we've got a slightly less Tory Labour MP. Had I voted Green, the blue Tory might have held on, so I'm marginally better off.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

You get my point though

Sure. Hypothetically, if everyone voted their conscience, we would elect people who would also vote their conscience once in Congress. But that is not the reality of American politics. At all.

You can see it right here on this thread. Republicans are voting based on complete BS like a tiny number of trans athletes, or allowing parents and doctors to make medical decisions for their kids (but just on things they don't like, of course). Good luck getting Americans voting on real issues. Good luck getting everybody on the same page, fact-wise and information-wise.