Should Dems move to the Right of Biden?

[Dans La Lune]

I'm told that Dems should move to the right, because it's a winning strategy. Should Dems move to the right of Biden on the following issues:

- Foreign Policy
- Healthcare (Medicare, Medicaid)
- Public Health Policy (e.g. Vaccines)
- Social Security
- Civil Rights
- Economy
- Immigration
- Foreign Policy
- Political Corruption
- Climate Change
- Infrastructure
- Regulations
- Unions / Labor / Workers Rights

Bonus Question #1: What does that coalition look like? The base would undoubtably change from what it currently is. Do they pick up disaffected MAGA voters to replace Progressives?

Bonus Question #2: Would progressives still be blamed for Dems losing after they were formally removed from the coalition?

....

Political scientists like David Broockman have pointed out that the term "moderate" is often misleading. When people identify as moderate, it may not reflect a balanced or centrist ideology but rather a lack of strong ideological commitment. In fact, many self-identified moderates hold extreme views on specific issues, but their opinions are spread across the spectrum, making them appear moderate when averaged out.

Research by Anthony Fowler and others suggests that moderates are not a monolithic group. Some are genuinely moderate, holding views that are neither strongly liberal nor conservative. Others may be ideologically incoherent, with random or inconsistent opinions. This diversity makes it difficult to define a single "moderate" position or to appeal to moderates with a unified message.

Furthermore, the idea that moderates are the key to winning elections has been challenged. While they are a significant portion of the electorate, their preferences are not easily predictable, and they may be more influenced by candidate characteristics than by policy positions. This has led some to argue that the focus on moderates is a distraction from the real issues and that the political system is more polarized than the polls suggest.

The Moderate Middle Is A Myth

Graphics by Ella Koeze Stop me if you’ve heard this one before: Independent voters will decide the election. Or better yet: Moderate voters will decide the elec…

fivethirtyeight.com

The Myth of the Moderate Republican

Liberal Republicanism’s collapse didn’t spring from some loss of decency in an age of polarization, but from the transformation of class struggle in America.

jacobin.com

The Increasingly Dangerous Myth of the 'Moderate Republican' | Common Dreams

The current notion of a "moderate Republican" is an oxymoron that helps to move the country rightward. Last week, every one of the GOP's so-called "moderates" voted to install House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, who won with the avid support of Donald Trump and got over the finish line by catering to su

www.commondreams.org

 

[Felis Leo]

I'm told that Dems should move to the right, because it's a winning strategy. Should Dems move to the right of Biden on the following issues:

- Foreign Policy
- Healthcare (Medicare, Medicaid)
- Public Health Policy (e.g. Vaccines)
- Social Security
- Civil Rights
- Economy
- Immigration
- Foreign Policy
- Political Corruption
- Climate Change
- Infrastructure
- Regulations
- Unions / Labor / Workers Rights

Bonus Question #1: What does that coalition look like? The base would undoubtably change from what it currently is. Do they pick up disaffected MAGA voters to replace Progressives?

Bonus Question #2: Would progressives still be blamed for Dems losing after they were formally removed from the coalition?

....

The Myth of the Moderate Republican

Liberal Republicanism’s collapse didn’t spring from some loss of decency in an age of polarization, but from the transformation of class struggle in America.

jacobin.com

The Increasingly Dangerous Myth of the 'Moderate Republican' | Common Dreams

The current notion of a "moderate Republican" is an oxymoron that helps to move the country rightward. Last week, every one of the GOP's so-called "moderates" voted to install House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, who won with the avid support of Donald Trump and got over the finish line by catering to su

www.commondreams.org

No. The Democrats should not move to the right. They should provide an actual alternative to the Republicans on all of the above issues, unless the Democrats simply want to lose a large section their liberal base and certainly what remaining progressives and leftists were willing to hold their nose and vote Democratic in order to gain the votes of the mythical centrists and independents looking for Republican Lite/Mitt Romney-style Democrats.

Answer to Bonus Question #1: I think the Democrats believe they would be picking up disaffected white blue collar workers burned by Trump's policies along with both wealthy metropolitan neo-liberal Democrats and elderly black voters of the kind who would vote for Andrew Cuomo.

Answer to Bonus Question #2: Yes, progressives would still be blamed because they refused to come out and vote for the still corporate-captured yet slightly-less fascist option, and Democratic punditry would continue punching left.

 

[j brown's body]

Dems could help themselves by advocating for and defending their positions on issues.

 

[redbeer]

I'm told that Dems should move to the right, because it's a winning strategy. Should Dems move to the right of Biden on the following issues:

- Foreign Policy
- Healthcare (Medicare, Medicaid)
- Public Health Policy (e.g. Vaccines)
- Social Security
- Civil Rights
- Economy
- Immigration
- Foreign Policy
- Political Corruption
- Climate Change
- Infrastructure
- Regulations
- Unions / Labor / Workers Rights

Bonus Question #1: What does that coalition look like? The base would undoubtably change from what it currently is. Do they pick up disaffected MAGA voters to replace Progressives?

Bonus Question #2: Would progressives still be blamed for Dems losing after they were formally removed from the coalition?

....

The Myth of the Moderate Republican

Liberal Republicanism’s collapse didn’t spring from some loss of decency in an age of polarization, but from the transformation of class struggle in America.

jacobin.com

The Increasingly Dangerous Myth of the 'Moderate Republican' | Common Dreams

The current notion of a "moderate Republican" is an oxymoron that helps to move the country rightward. Last week, every one of the GOP's so-called "moderates" voted to install House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, who won with the avid support of Donald Trump and got over the finish line by catering to su

www.commondreams.org

It might take generations to get Trump removed from the brains of liberal/progressives. Keep up the good work.

 

[NatMorton]

I'm told that Dems should move to the right, because it's a winning strategy. Should Dems move to the right of Biden on the following issues:

- Foreign Policy
- Healthcare (Medicare, Medicaid)
- Public Health Policy (e.g. Vaccines)
- Social Security
- Civil Rights
- Economy
- Immigration
- Foreign Policy
- Political Corruption
- Climate Change
- Infrastructure
- Regulations
- Unions / Labor / Workers Rights

Bonus Question #1: What does that coalition look like? The base would undoubtably change from what it currently is. Do they pick up disaffected MAGA voters to replace Progressives?

Bonus Question #2: Would progressives still be blamed for Dems losing after they were formally removed from the coalition?

....

The Myth of the Moderate Republican

Liberal Republicanism’s collapse didn’t spring from some loss of decency in an age of polarization, but from the transformation of class struggle in America.

jacobin.com

The Increasingly Dangerous Myth of the 'Moderate Republican' | Common Dreams

The current notion of a "moderate Republican" is an oxymoron that helps to move the country rightward. Last week, every one of the GOP's so-called "moderates" voted to install House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, who won with the avid support of Donald Trump and got over the finish line by catering to su

www.commondreams.org

I think Democrats would go a long way by toning it down with some of their rather odious positions on social issues. Defending child mutilation in the name of trans ideology purity should be something they avoid. Putting fewer drag queens in front of kids would be another. If they could get a bit more pragmatic on climate change it would help them in midwest swing states. And they simply must get serious about immigration law enforcement.

Public Health, SS, Infra, and Civil Rights will remain strengths for them.

 

[Eriech]

I think they should keep on keeping on. Go all in tomorrow for impeachment and suing in federal court on the wrong sides of 80/20 issues

 

[NatMorton]

I think they should keep on keeping on. Go all in tomorrow for impeachment and suing in federal court on the wrong sides of 80/20 issues

The optics will be Democrats coming to the defense of Iran, and that's not going to play well.

 

[Lursa]

I'm told that Dems should move to the right, because it's a winning strategy. Should Dems move to the right of Biden on the following issues:

- Foreign Policy
- Healthcare (Medicare, Medicaid)
- Public Health Policy (e.g. Vaccines)
- Social Security
- Civil Rights
- Economy
- Immigration
- Foreign Policy
- Political Corruption
- Climate Change
- Infrastructure
- Regulations
- Unions / Labor / Workers Rights

Bonus Question #1: What does that coalition look like? The base would undoubtably change from what it currently is. Do they pick up disaffected MAGA voters to replace Progressives?

Bonus Question #2: Would progressives still be blamed for Dems losing after they were formally removed from the coalition?

....

The Myth of the Moderate Republican

Liberal Republicanism’s collapse didn’t spring from some loss of decency in an age of polarization, but from the transformation of class struggle in America.

jacobin.com

The Increasingly Dangerous Myth of the 'Moderate Republican' | Common Dreams

The current notion of a "moderate Republican" is an oxymoron that helps to move the country rightward. Last week, every one of the GOP's so-called "moderates" voted to install House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, who won with the avid support of Donald Trump and got over the finish line by catering to su

www.commondreams.org

I thought Biden was pretty moderate. Certainly not a Sanders. He just didnt push hard enough or play dirty enough to get enough shit done. IMO the higher visibility "woke" stuff was not his platform but made a bigger splash in the media, was more controversial, and wasnt stuff that would help the average American buy a house or pay their bills. He was working on that stuff...but it's boring and people dont pay attention...and the GOP fought it in order to squash any Dem. progress.

 

[cpwill]

I'm told that Dems should move to the right, because it's a winning strategy. Should Dems move to the right of Biden on the following issues:

- Foreign Policy
- Healthcare (Medicare, Medicaid)
- Public Health Policy (e.g. Vaccines)
- Social Security
- Civil Rights
- Economy
- Immigration
- Foreign Policy
- Political Corruption
- Climate Change
- Infrastructure
- Regulations
- Unions / Labor / Workers Rights

Bonus Question #1: What does that coalition look like? The base would undoubtably change from what it currently is. Do they pick up disaffected MAGA voters to replace Progressives?

Bonus Question #2: Would progressives still be blamed for Dems losing after they were formally removed from the coalition?

....

The Myth of the Moderate Republican

Liberal Republicanism’s collapse didn’t spring from some loss of decency in an age of polarization, but from the transformation of class struggle in America.

jacobin.com

The Increasingly Dangerous Myth of the 'Moderate Republican' | Common Dreams

The current notion of a "moderate Republican" is an oxymoron that helps to move the country rightward. Last week, every one of the GOP's so-called "moderates" voted to install House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, who won with the avid support of Donald Trump and got over the finish line by catering to su

www.commondreams.org

Only if they want to win elections outside of deep blue enclaves.

 

[The Brad Dad]

We already have one Republican Party. Progressive issues are super popular with the public. The Dems need to move left and nominate candidates who are completely unapologetic about being progressive. No more dance parties with Liz Cheney. When you strive to get Republicans out to vote, they tend to vote for Republicans.

 

[The Brad Dad]

Only if they want to win elections outside of deep blue enclaves.

Conservatism is a dead ideology. The last election was an outlier, not a harbinger.

 

[Integrityrespec]

I'm told that Dems should move to the right, because it's a winning strategy. Should Dems move to the right of Biden on the following issues:

- Foreign Policy
- Healthcare (Medicare, Medicaid)
- Public Health Policy (e.g. Vaccines)
- Social Security
- Civil Rights
- Economy
- Immigration
- Foreign Policy
- Political Corruption
- Climate Change
- Infrastructure
- Regulations
- Unions / Labor / Workers Rights

Bonus Question #1: What does that coalition look like? The base would undoubtably change from what it currently is. Do they pick up disaffected MAGA voters to replace Progressives?

Bonus Question #2: Would progressives still be blamed for Dems losing after they were formally removed from the coalition?

....

The Myth of the Moderate Republican

Liberal Republicanism’s collapse didn’t spring from some loss of decency in an age of polarization, but from the transformation of class struggle in America.

jacobin.com

The Increasingly Dangerous Myth of the 'Moderate Republican' | Common Dreams

The current notion of a "moderate Republican" is an oxymoron that helps to move the country rightward. Last week, every one of the GOP's so-called "moderates" voted to install House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, who won with the avid support of Donald Trump and got over the finish line by catering to su

www.commondreams.org

They should, I doubt they will. The progressive wing has too much influence.

 

[Lursa]

We already have one Republican Party. Progressive issues are super popular with the public. The Dems need to move left and nominate candidates who are completely unapologetic about being progressive. No more dance parties with Liz Cheney. When you strive to get Republicans out to vote, they tend to vote for Republicans.

Excuse me but...**** no. You were being sarcastic, correct?

 

[reinaert]

Sure. If the Dems want to harakiri whilst eating poison, let 'em.

 

[The Brad Dad]

Excuse me but...**** no. You were being sarcastic, correct?

**** no.

 

[Gatsby]

I think Democrats would go a long way by toning it down with some of their rather odious positions on social issues. Defending child mutilation in the name of trans ideology purity should be something they avoid. Putting fewer drag queens in front of kids would be another. If they could get a bit more pragmatic on climate change it would help them in midwest swing states. And they simply must get serious about immigration law enforcement.

Public Health, SS, Infra, and Civil Rights will remain strengths for them.

This, 100%.

 

[noonereal]

I'm told that Dems should move to the right, because it's a winning strategy. Should Dems move to the right of Biden on the following issues:

- Foreign Policy
- Healthcare (Medicare, Medicaid)
- Public Health Policy (e.g. Vaccines)
- Social Security
- Civil Rights
- Economy
- Immigration
- Foreign Policy
- Political Corruption
- Climate Change
- Infrastructure
- Regulations
- Unions / Labor / Workers Rights

Bonus Question #1: What does that coalition look like? The base would undoubtably change from what it currently is. Do they pick up disaffected MAGA voters to replace Progressives?

Bonus Question #2: Would progressives still be blamed for Dems losing after they were formally removed from the coalition?

....

The Myth of the Moderate Republican

Liberal Republicanism’s collapse didn’t spring from some loss of decency in an age of polarization, but from the transformation of class struggle in America.

jacobin.com

The Increasingly Dangerous Myth of the 'Moderate Republican' | Common Dreams

The current notion of a "moderate Republican" is an oxymoron that helps to move the country rightward. Last week, every one of the GOP's so-called "moderates" voted to install House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, who won with the avid support of Donald Trump and got over the finish line by catering to su

www.commondreams.org

Dems need to stay centrist.

They need better marketing as Trump painted the party very differant than it is.

 

[Gatsby]

Only if they want to win elections outside of deep blue enclaves.

Yup. Democrats can keep winning elections in California without changing anything. But if they want to win elections in places that currently vote for Republicans, they need to be more moderate.

 

[noonereal]

This, 100%.

Oh. You belived the MAGA bullshit.
Sad

 

[Gatsby]

We already have one Republican Party. Progressive issues are super popular with the public. The Dems need to move left and nominate candidates who are completely unapologetic about being progressive. No more dance parties with Liz Cheney. When you strive to get Republicans out to vote, they tend to vote for Republicans.

If unapologetically progressive issues are super popular with the public, then what is your explanation for why we don't have 95 Bernie Sanders clones in the Senate?

 

[The Brad Dad]

If unapologetically progressive issues are super popular with the public, then what is your explanation for why we don't have 95 Bernie Sanders clones in the Senate?

Oh, money in politics. Look at what’s happening in NY. You have major media and dem establishment shoving Cuomo down everyone’s throat.

 

[MikePrime]

They should return to the 90s right before they were being hijacked by progressive ideas and stop acting as if they were never hijacked and as if they weren't the ones that tilted the scales in the 21st century (information age) that invited the rightwing backlash that they act like arose out of nowhere.

 

[Surrealistik]

I'm told that Dems should move to the right, because it's a winning strategy. Should Dems move to the right of Biden on the following issues:

- Foreign Policy
- Healthcare (Medicare, Medicaid)
- Public Health Policy (e.g. Vaccines)
- Social Security
- Civil Rights
- Economy
- Immigration
- Foreign Policy
- Political Corruption
- Climate Change
- Infrastructure
- Regulations
- Unions / Labor / Workers Rights

Bonus Question #1: What does that coalition look like? The base would undoubtably change from what it currently is. Do they pick up disaffected MAGA voters to replace Progressives?

Bonus Question #2: Would progressives still be blamed for Dems losing after they were formally removed from the coalition?

....

The Myth of the Moderate Republican

Liberal Republicanism’s collapse didn’t spring from some loss of decency in an age of polarization, but from the transformation of class struggle in America.

jacobin.com

The Increasingly Dangerous Myth of the 'Moderate Republican' | Common Dreams

The current notion of a "moderate Republican" is an oxymoron that helps to move the country rightward. Last week, every one of the GOP's so-called "moderates" voted to install House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, who won with the avid support of Donald Trump and got over the finish line by catering to su

www.commondreams.org

Dems should definitely opt out of the performative leftism of unpopular/contentious social wedge issues that Republicans excel at reducing elections to, and which the third way/neoliberal old guard loves as it smokescreens their deliberate lack of leftism in more substantive (and popular) areas meant to avoid alienating megadonors when it's not satisfying their own political biases.

Other than that, no, they obviously should orient towards elements of progressivism (like universal healthcare, free albeit curated public college/trade school, infrastructure investment, higher taxes on the rich, divesting money and professional lobbying from politics) that consistently polls extremely well across the board.

 

[Gatsby]

Conservatism is a dead ideology. The last election was an outlier, not a harbinger.

It was neither. It was an ordinary outcome in line with historical trends. Republicans have won 3 of the 6 presidential elections this century. They have won somewhere in the ballpark of 225 out of 400 Senate elections this century. Clearly there are plenty of voters willing to pull the lever for a Republican candidate. It's not as though this past election cycle, the voters just suddenly elected a crop of candidates wildly out of step with their past policy views.

 

[Perotista]

I'm told that Dems should move to the right, because it's a winning strategy. Should Dems move to the right of Biden on the following issues:

- Foreign Policy
- Healthcare (Medicare, Medicaid)
- Public Health Policy (e.g. Vaccines)
- Social Security
- Civil Rights
- Economy
- Immigration
- Foreign Policy
- Political Corruption
- Climate Change
- Infrastructure
- Regulations
- Unions / Labor / Workers Rights

Bonus Question #1: What does that coalition look like? The base would undoubtably change from what it currently is. Do they pick up disaffected MAGA voters to replace Progressives?

Bonus Question #2: Would progressives still be blamed for Dems losing after they were formally removed from the coalition?

....

The Myth of the Moderate Republican

Liberal Republicanism’s collapse didn’t spring from some loss of decency in an age of polarization, but from the transformation of class struggle in America.

jacobin.com

The Increasingly Dangerous Myth of the 'Moderate Republican' | Common Dreams

The current notion of a "moderate Republican" is an oxymoron that helps to move the country rightward. Last week, every one of the GOP's so-called "moderates" voted to install House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, who won with the avid support of Donald Trump and got over the finish line by catering to su

www.commondreams.org

I think the democrats need to remember that they lost the presidency by just 1.5 points, by 2.3 million votes out of 156 million cast. Also, that the democrats did gain 2 house seats in the only other what could be called, national election. This when the sitting president had just a 39% overall job approval/57% disapproval. The economy, inflation, rising prices did the democrats in. What could be done about the economy differently, I don’t know. I’ve always been one who believed the economy, inflation is like the weather. It’s going to do whatever it’s going to do. If presidents or governments could control the economy, we’d have all good times, all ups, no downs and no bad times.

Immigration, securing the southern border. Immigration was the second most important issue in folks deciding who to vote for. Behind the economy in general and inflation, rising prices in particular. Along with the economy, illegal immigration really hurt the democrats. The rest of your issues was fine as far as I’m concerned. But many folks voted their wallets last year which means against Biden, Harris and the democrats.

Moving as a whole to the right, probably wouldn’t do much good. According to Gallup independents, the non-affiliated, the less to non-partisan group make up 43% of the electorate. Which means the democrats need to get them to vote for their candidates. When Biden won, independents voted for him by a 54-41 margin. When Harris lost, independents still voted for her 49-46, but that 10-point drop of independent support cost her the election. That 10-point drop was due to many independents feeling they had it better under Trump, financially, living standards etc. than under Biden. Independents aren’t a monolithic group. They will support the democrats on some issues, oppose them on others. Same for the republicans, support them on some issues, oppose them on others. Prime example is an independent who is pro-choice and pro-2nd amendment at the same time.

Moving right won’t help much in my opinion. Right now, most independents are disgusted with both major parties. Movement left or right by either party isn’t what they’re looking for. They’re looking for both major parties being willing to compromise and stop treating each other like they’re enemies to be destroyed. They don’t want the far-left agenda forced on them anymore than they want the far right agenda forced on them as Trump is doing now and what Biden and the democrats tried to do during his presidency.