Should cigarette smoking be allowed in some bars & restaurants?

vesper · Nov 24, 2013

Bodhisattva said:
With regards to restaurants if smoking were allowed then not enough people would stop going to the establishment out of protest because they would "tolerate" it. Stop going to favourite places in order to protest is something that most people wouldn't do. Same with other "private" places that the public goes to. That said the unhealthy aspect of smoking would be placed upon individuals again. Those that complain the most are seeing their insurance rates and taxes used to support a filthy and disgusting habit.

Hi Bodhisattva. I personally don't see where anyone has the right to force another to conform to something that violates their rights because I or someone else finds it to be a poor choice especially when it is legal. It started with smoking, now we have food police dictating what people can and can not eat and it's effecting what items a restaurant can have on its menu. We got people trying to ban sports in school because of potential injuries. Where does it stop?

Bodi · Nov 24, 2013

vesper said:
Hi Bodhisattva. I personally don't see where anyone has the right to force another to conform to something that violates their rights because I or someone else finds it to be a poor choice especially when it is legal. It started with smoking, now we have food police dictating what people can and can not eat and it's effecting what items a restaurant can have on its menu. We got people trying to ban sports in school because of potential injuries. Where does it stop?

Slippery Slope?

We already have policy's in place that limit freedoms. This is nothing new. Yes, government over steps it's bounds sometimes too... and that isn't good. Smoking has ZERO positive health benefits. Smoking also affects others negatively... including death. I don't mind infringing on people's "rights" on this one.

SBu · Nov 24, 2013

radcen said:
Should cigarette smoking be allowed in some bars & restaurants?

Most states have blanket bans against smoking in all bars and restaurants. No exceptions. As a result, you often see smokers huddled in small groups outside partaking in cigarettes.

I am not, and have never been, a smoker but to me this in inherently unfair. IMO, the state should set aside special permits for a small percentage of bars and restaurants where smoking be allowed. To pick a number, I would say 10% to 15% of bars and restaurants should be allowed to have smoking inside. Have them post a large sign at each entrance notifying potentials customers, so everyone is fully informed and able to make their own choice. No one needs to go in and act surprised.

I don't see the need to make them age-restricted to 18+ or 21+, but I could live with that compromise.

What think you?

I'm a smoker and I would prefer keeping these places smoke free. If you believe that people should have rights to do whatever they please so long as it doesn't infringe on another's right, then I think you would have to admit that second hand smoke infringes on another's right and therefore should not be allowed in confined spaces.

That being said, it would be nice for a loop hole to exist that would allow businesses to create smoke zones inside. I think that could be a reasonable common ground.

Phil_Osophy · Nov 24, 2013

SBu said:
I'm a smoker and I would prefer keeping these places smoke free. If you believe that people should have rights to do whatever they please so long as it doesn't infringe on another's right, then I think you would have to admit that second hand smoke infringes on another's right and therefore should not be allowed in confined spaces.

That being said, it would be nice for a loop hole to exist that would allow businesses to create smoke zones inside. I think that could be a reasonable common ground.

In that case, we must ban petroleum fuel.

SBu · Nov 24, 2013

Phil_Osophy said:
In that case, we must ban petroleum fuel.

I believe it probably isn't legal to have a car running indoors in a confined space.

Paratrooper · Nov 24, 2013

I mixed on this. I remember going to Irish pubs in Germany where the smoke was so thick you could barely see. As a non smoker this sucked but I still went there up to 5 days a week.

I don't think that just because I don't smoke that I should be able to tell other people they cannot smoke. On the other hand kind of like having smoking/nonsmoking areas and smoking/nonsmoking hotel rooms.

MadLib · Nov 24, 2013

clownboy said:
And once again that harm doesn't exist with the proper equipment.

So should restaurants and bars that allow smoking be required to install such equipment?

Smeagol · Nov 24, 2013

Ikari said:
Coal is likely overall dirtier, gas and gas engines have become very good in the modern era in limiting pollution. But while there is a "push" for new energy, there isn't really a push. We have these little things on the side, wind and solar, but we shun nuclear and invest way more in finding new ways to blow each other up than for finding a better, cleaner source of energy. We'll see where Tesla Motors ends up.

BTW, solar cells require massive arsenic strip mining.

I saw something saying solar is on the verge of a revolutionary breakthrough. There's a range of light spectrum the present solar cells cannot convert to electricity. Scientists are researching a way to allow solar cells to see that spectrum. I understand they're close but noting workable yet on a widespread level. Once they do, game change in a big way as solar electric becomes 5 times (500%) more powerful. It would make sense for almost everybody to have solar electric roofing.

Oozlefinch · Nov 24, 2013

Smeagol said:
I saw something saying solar is on the verge of a revolutionary breakthrough.

Solar has been on the "verge of a revolutionary breakthrough" for over 30 years now. Off topic and nothing to do with smoking.

And yes, I expect solar to still be on the "verge of a revolutionary breakthrough" in another 30 years. Kinda like fusion energy and everything else similar, never really gonna happen.

Tothian · Nov 26, 2013

I don't like there being more restrictions. Let people do what they want. The restaurants can individually decide. But then again, having smoking sections seemed to work alright.

cpgrad08 · Nov 26, 2013

Carleen said:
You would have to have bar tenders and waiters who were smokers also, then it would be fair.

No you wouldn't. Just ones that would agree to work in that environment.

Carleen · Nov 27, 2013

cpgrad08 said:
No you wouldn't. Just ones that would agree to work in that environment.

If you are a non smoker and choose to work in that environment, you need your head examined imo.

Amandi · Dec 2, 2013

Tothian said:
I don't like there being more restrictions. Let people do what they want. The restaurants can individually decide. But then again, having smoking sections seemed to work alright.

From my experience smoking sections in restaurants worked about as well as peeing sections in pools. If the restaurant was going to have a section that was physically divided from the other section, then I wouldnt mind but I have never seen that.

paddymcdougall · Dec 2, 2013

radcen said:
Should cigarette smoking be allowed in some bars & restaurants?

Most states have blanket bans against smoking in all bars and restaurants. No exceptions. As a result, you often see smokers huddled in small groups outside partaking in cigarettes.

I am not, and have never been, a smoker but to me this in inherently unfair. IMO, the state should set aside special permits for a small percentage of bars and restaurants where smoking be allowed. To pick a number, I would say 10% to 15% of bars and restaurants should be allowed to have smoking inside. Have them post a large sign at each entrance notifying potentials customers, so everyone is fully informed and able to make their own choice. No one needs to go in and act surprised.

I don't see the need to make them age-restricted to 18+ or 21+, but I could live with that compromise.

What think you?

No, the smoke drifts into the non-smoking sections and servers have to work both sections.

Keep it outside the building.

paddymcdougall · Dec 2, 2013

Carleen said:
If you are a non smoker and choose to work in that environment, you need your head examined imo.

Checked the unemployment rate lately? not a lot of choices in some areas.

AlabamaPaul · Dec 2, 2013

paddymcdougall said:
Checked the unemployment rate lately? not a lot of choices in some areas.

But still a choice...

Master PO · Dec 2, 2013

radcen said:
Should cigarette smoking be allowed in some bars & restaurants?

Most states have blanket bans against smoking in all bars and restaurants. No exceptions. As a result, you often see smokers huddled in small groups outside partaking in cigarettes.

I am not, and have never been, a smoker but to me this in inherently unfair. IMO, the state should set aside special permits for a small percentage of bars and restaurants where smoking be allowed. To pick a number, I would say 10% to 15% of bars and restaurants should be allowed to have smoking inside. Have them post a large sign at each entrance notifying potentials customers, so everyone is fully informed and able to make their own choice. No one needs to go in and act surprised.

I don't see the need to make them age-restricted to 18+ or 21+, but I could live with that compromise.

What think you?

should have phrased it ..........ALL smoking restrictions should be lifted on private property.

government has authority to put restrictions on..,, government property.

Van Basten · Dec 2, 2013

Can't stand smokers that smoke in public places where it's banned. Disgusting, keep your little addiction to yourself.

Keep it as it is, hell, enforce it more if anything.

maquiscat · Dec 2, 2013

Bodhisattva said:
Slippery Slope?

We already have policy's in place that limit freedoms. This is nothing new. Yes, government over steps it's bounds sometimes too... and that isn't good. Smoking has ZERO positive health benefits. Smoking also affects others negatively... including death. I don't mind infringing on people's "rights" on this one.

So what positive health effects does bungee jumping have?

Amandi said:
From my experience smoking sections in restaurants worked about as well as peeing sections in pools. If the restaurant was going to have a section that was physically divided from the other section, then I wouldnt mind but I have never seen that.

I would say that unless there is a physical barrier that prevents any mixing, then it's all or nothing. The whole establishment is either smoking or non-smoking.

Van Basten said:
Can't stand smokers that smoke in public places where it's banned.

This has nothing to do with the OP. I'm willing to bet that you can't stand smokers that smoke in places where it's not banned.

Peter Grimm · Dec 2, 2013

radcen said:
Should cigarette smoking be allowed in some bars & restaurants?

Most states have blanket bans against smoking in all bars and restaurants. No exceptions. As a result, you often see smokers huddled in small groups outside partaking in cigarettes.

I am not, and have never been, a smoker but to me this in inherently unfair. IMO, the state should set aside special permits for a small percentage of bars and restaurants where smoking be allowed. To pick a number, I would say 10% to 15% of bars and restaurants should be allowed to have smoking inside. Have them post a large sign at each entrance notifying potentials customers, so everyone is fully informed and able to make their own choice. No one needs to go in and act surprised.

I don't see the need to make them age-restricted to 18+ or 21+, but I could live with that compromise.

What think you?

You're on the wrong side of history if you want smoking restrictions to be let up. Really since the 70's, the trend has been to tighten up more and more on smokers. I think in my lifetime, tobacco will be illegal altogether.

Tobacco is a very dangerous substance and it makes no more sense to allow it than to allow heroin, for example. The only difference is that a substantial part of the population is not dependent on heroin.

Phil_Osophy · Dec 3, 2013

Peter Grimm said:
You're on the wrong side of history if you want smoking restrictions to be let up. Really since the 70's, the trend has been to tighten up more and more on smokers. I think in my lifetime, tobacco will be illegal altogether.

Tobacco is a very dangerous substance and it makes no more sense to allow it than to allow heroin, for example. The only difference is that a substantial part of the population is not dependent on heroin.

Yes. Being on the side of freedom is always the wrong side, as demonstrated time and time again.

I agree with the last part, though i think all drugs should be legal.

Peter Grimm · Dec 3, 2013

Phil_Osophy said:
Yes. Being on the side of freedom is always the wrong side, as demonstrated time and time again.

I agree with the last part, though i think all drugs should be legal.

That's quite a simplistic way to look at it. Should I be free to buy anthrax and a rocket launcher?

Phil_Osophy · Dec 3, 2013

Peter Grimm said:
That's quite a simplistic way to look at it. Should I be free to buy anthrax and a rocket launcher?

Is there a reason you shouldnt be free to?

roguenuke · Dec 3, 2013

I think most states have gotten it right. Smoking not allowed in enclosed bars/restaurant areas. I think some may have gone a bit too far (Hawaii bans many outdoor places to smoking). I don't see an issue with how they have it here. The bar/club I go to (InCahoots) here in San Diego has a large patio deck outside the bar for smokers. It has been that way for at least a decade (my first visit to this particular club was during 2002). You can hear the music just fine and even drink out there since the patio is only accessible via the bar.

Amandi · Dec 3, 2013

Phil_Osophy said:
Is there a reason you shouldnt be free to?

I know the question wasnt directed at me but I am going to give my opinion. They are too dangerous. I realize you are Libertarian. You have your way of thinking and I have mine. I believe society has the right to enact laws for it's protection.

Should cigarette smoking be allowed in some bars & restaurants?