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Shocking news. Published new Bible for homosexuals...

RAMOSS said:
Ah yes. the Christains talking about Isaiah 53, and misrepresenting it. It's about the suffering of the Nation of Israel, despite the Christian apologist trying to tell the Jews it's about the Messiah.
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Yes, yes, yes ---- I'm sure you can at least pull that one very narrow view. Oddly, the Bible being a living book, can have multiple means that are all just as valid. One needn't pick one at the exclusion of another. I'm sure the Nation of Israel suffered, though I would like to know if the Nation of Israel sees itself as the sheep who have gone astray, or as the one who died for our transgression and bore the sins of many. I guess Christians should be thanking Israel instead of any Messiah for their salvation? I think at least some rabbis maybe biting off more than they can chew from their supposed "correct" interpretation.

Isaiah 53​

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New International Version​

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1 Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
 
LittleNipper said:
Yes, yes, yes ---- I'm sure you can at least pull that one very narrow view. Oddly, the Bible being a living book, can have multiple means that are all just as valid. One needn't pick one at the exclusion of another. I'm sure the Nation of Israel suffered, though I would like to know if the Nation of Israel sees itself as the sheep who have gone astray, or as the one who died for our transgression and bore the sins of many. I guess Christians should be thanking Israel instead of any Messiah for their salvation? I think at least some rabbis maybe biting off more than they can chew from their supposed "correct" interpretation.

Isaiah 53​

​

New International Version​

​

​

1 Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
Click to expand...

OF course, you are quoting things out of context. Let's look at what the context is.. and various other proceeding passages. The suffering servant is specifically identified as Israel There won't be a meaning of the same terms from one passage to another.

Isaiah 41:8-9
But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, the offspring of Abraham, my friend; you whom I took from the ends of the earth, and called from its farthest corners, saying to you, “You are my servant, I have chosen you and not cast you off.”
Isaiah 44:1
But now hear, O Jacob my servant, Israel whom I have chosen!
Isaiah 44:21
Remember these things, O Jacob, and Israel, for you are my servant; I formed you; you are my servant; O Israel, you will not be forgotten by me.
Isaiah 45:4
For the sake of my servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen, I called you by your name, I name you, though you do not know me.
Isaiah 49:3
And he said to me, “You are my servant, Israel, in whom I will be glorified.”
 
LittleNipper said:
There isn't zero evidence. There are certainly Egyptian influences to be seen in the Bible. The name Moses is a simple one. All one needs to understand that the Egyptian rulers didn't like to look bad, and so, they rewrote history. They defaced reliefs and statues ---- we do know this is a fact. And it's thousands of years ago and not just yesterday. If the dating is off even a few centuries, everything could be viewed wrong and the little data existing misinterpreted. It must be remembered that no matter what you think of it, THE BIBLE is still a historical document.
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Zero evidence.
 
RAMOSS said:
OF course, you are quoting things out of context. Let's look at what the context is.. and various other proceeding passages. The suffering servant is specifically identified as Israel There won't be a meaning of the same terms from one passage to another.

Isaiah 41:8-9
But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, the offspring of Abraham, my friend; you whom I took from the ends of the earth, and called from its farthest corners, saying to you, “You are my servant, I have chosen you and not cast you off.”
Isaiah 44:1
But now hear, O Jacob my servant, Israel whom I have chosen!
Isaiah 44:21
Remember these things, O Jacob, and Israel, for you are my servant; I formed you; you are my servant; O Israel, you will not be forgotten by me.
Isaiah 45:4
For the sake of my servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen, I called you by your name, I name you, though you do not know me.
Isaiah 49:3
And he said to me, “You are my servant, Israel, in whom I will be glorified.”
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A prophetic message can be mixed in. And you still didn't answer the question. Which Hebrew/Jew/Israelite is this passage speaking of?
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

I'm sorry, you've come to the window but simply fail to observe what the gentiles see as obvious! And that is why gentiles are a stumbling block to the Jews. They want it to be all about THEM and not GOD.
 
LittleNipper said:
A prophetic message can be mixed in. And you still didn't answer the question. Which Hebrew/Jew/Israelite is this passage speaking of?
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

I'm sorry, you've come to the window but simply fail to observe what the gentiles see as obvious! And that is why gentiles are a stumbling block to the Jews. They want it to be all about THEM and not GOD.
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You have not made that case, and you are using a mistranslated.

For example , pierced does not appear in the Hebrew.

And, well, the Nation of Israel was made to suffer the sins of the surrounding countries.
aish.com

Isaiah 53: The Suffering Servant - Aish.com

Cutting through the distortions and mistranslations of this enigmatic text.
aish.com aish.com

(5) He was wounded as a result of our transgressions, and crushed as a result of our iniquities. The chastisement upon him was for our benefit; and through his wounds we were healed.


וְהוּא מְחלָל מִפְּשָׁעֵנוּ מְדֻכָּא מֵעֲוֽנתֵינוּ מוּסַר שְׁלוֹמֵנוּ עָלָיו וּבַחֲבֻרָתוֹ נִרְפָּא לָנוּ​


This verse describes how the humbled world leaders confess that Jewish suffering occurred as a direct result of “our iniquities” – i.e., depraved Jew-hatred, rather than, as previously claimed, the stubborn blindness of the Jews.


Isaiah 53:5 is a classic example of mistranslation: The verse does not say, “He was wounded for our transgressions and crushed for our iniquities,” which could convey the vicarious suffering ascribed to Jesus. Rather, the proper translation is: “He was wounded because of our transgressions, and crushed because of our iniquities.” This conveys that the Servant suffered as a result of the sinfulness of others – not the opposite as Christians contend – that the Servant suffered to atone for the sins of others.


Indeed, the Christian idea directly contradicts the basic Jewish teaching that God promises forgiveness to all who sincerely return to Him; thus there is no need for the Messiah to atone for others (Isaiah 55:6-7, Jeremiah 36:3, Ezekiel chapters 18 and 33, Hoseah 14:1-3, Jonah 3:6-10, Proverbs 16:6, Daniel 4:27, 2-Chronicles 7:14).
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Ramoss: "Christains talking about Isaiah 53, and misrepresenting it. It's about the suffering of the Nation of Israel"

That's beginner's nonsense.

From: https://chaim.org/cannot-be-israel

1.The servant of Isaiah 53 is an innocent and guiltless sufferer. Israel is never described as sinless. Isaiah 1:4 says of the nation: "Alas sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity. A brood of evildoers, children who are corrupters!" He then goes on in the same chapter to characterize Judah as Sodom, Jerusalem as a harlot, and the people as those whose hands are stained with blood (verses 10, 15, and 21). What a far cry from the innocent and guiltless sufferer of Isaiah 53 who had "done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth!"

2. The prophet said: "It pleased the LORD to bruise him." Has the awful treatment of the Jewish people (so contrary, by the way, to the teaching of Jesus to love everyone) really been God's pleasure, as is said of the suffering of the servant in Isaiah 53:10 ? If, as some rabbis contend, Isaiah 53 refers to the holocaust, can we really say of Israel's suffering during that horrible period, "It pleased the LORD to bruise him?" Yet it makes perfect sense to say that God was pleased to have Messiah suffer and die as our sin offering to provide us forgiveness and atonement.

3. The person mentioned in this passage suffers silently and willingly. Yet all people, even Israelites, complain when they suffer! Brave Jewish men and women fought in resistance movements against Hitler. Remember the Vilna Ghetto Uprising? Remember the Jewish men who fought on the side of the allies? Can we really say Jewish suffering during the holocaust and during the preceding centuries was done silently and willingly?

4. The figure described in Isaiah 53 suffers, dies, and rises again to atone for his people's sins. The Hebrew word used in Isaiah 53:10 for "sin-offering" is "asham," which is a technical term meaning "sin-offering." See how it is used in Leviticus chapters 5 and 6. Isaiah 53 describes a sinless and perfect sacrificial lamb who takes upon himself the sins of others so that they might be forgiven. Can anyone really claim that the terrible suffering of the Jewish people, however undeserved and unjust, atones for the sins of the world? Whoever Isaiah 53 speaks of, the figure described suffers and dies in order to provide a legal payment for sin so that others can be forgiven. This cannot be true of the Jewish people as a whole, or of any other mere human.

5. It is the prophet who is speaking in this passage. He says: "who has believed our message." The term "message" usually refers to the prophetic message, as it does in Jeremiah 49:14. Also, when we understand the Hebrew parallelism of verse 1, we see "Who has believed our message" as parallel to "to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed." The "arm of the Lord" refers to God's powerful act of salvation. So the message of the speaker is the message of a prophet declaring what God has done to save his people.

6. The prophet speaking is Isaiah himself, who says the sufferer was punished for "the transgression of my people," according to verse 8. Who are the people of Isaiah? Israel. So the sufferer of Isaiah 53 suffered for Israel. So how could he be Israel?

So, exactly WHEN and WHERE did Israel die for the sins of Israel?
 
gboisjo said:
Me as well, some of the stuff they believe in is priceless.
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Then perhaps you can show us your wisdom by answering my challenge below:

How about you show me your BEST ONE EXAMPLE ( 1 - JUST ONE, your BEST ONE) of a fictitious person, place, or event in the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John). PERSON, PLACE OR EVENT. Cite the pertinent scripture(s) and make your case with some kind of evidence or substantiation WHY it's fictitious. Please follow the instructions above. Let's see that bad boy.

Don't forget to answer the WHY part or you'll not have made your case. Every skeptic I've posed this too always fails to respond to the WHY.
 
vegas giants said:
So when it says eating shellfish is an abomination unto god it really means all you can eat crab night is just fine
I swear Christians make me laugh
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If you'd bother to do your homework Christians wouldn't be laughing at you.

Shellfish are bottom feeders and garbage eaters, digesting the waste of other fish, etc. They can also digest Domoic acid from algae, which is a marine biotoxin known as Amnesic Shellfish Poison (ASP). There's also the risk of paralytic shellfish poisoning which can result from contaminates like Saxitoxin. So it's a health issue.

Glad to help you out. Next time I recommend you do your homework before you leap so you won't look so uninformed.

Shellfish - https://www.openbible.info/topics/eating_shellfish
 
Elora said:
https://lifeway777.blogspot.com/2015/07/shocking-news-published-new-bible-for.html
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Interesting, but as the Old Testament is the section of the Jewish Torah the Christian faith allowed as preceding the advent of Christ, that would be the proper source for any "modification."

Yet in the Leviticus of the Torah we find these passages:

4 You shall fulfill My ordinances and observe My statutes, to follow them. I am the Lord, your God.

22 You shall not lie down with a male, as with a woman: this is an abomination.

27 For the people of the land who preceded you, did all of these abominations, and the land became defiled.


While the passages state that those Pagan nations before this engaged in such, it was this which defiled the land. But there is no "only because it is a pagan act." It is clear that it is an "abomination" before God.

BTW, that "before God" means in front of, per, viewed by God, not simply because "other pagan's practiced it."
 
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Logicman said:
If you'd bother to do your homework Christians wouldn't be laughing at you.

Shellfish are bottom feeders and garbage eaters, digesting the waste of other fish, etc. They can also digest Domoic acid from algae, which is a marine biotoxin known as Amnesic Shellfish Poison (ASP). There's also the risk of paralytic shellfish poisoning which can result from contaminates like Saxitoxin. So it's a health issue.

Glad to help you out. Next time I recommend you do your homework before you leap so you won't look so uninformed.

Shellfish - https://www.openbible.info/topics/eating_shellfish
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So people who go to red lobster are an abomination unto god.....right?
 
Captain Adverse said:
Interesting, but as the Old Testament is the section of the Jewish Torah the Christian faith allowed as preceding the advent of Christ, that would be the proper source for any "modification."

Yet in the Leviticus of the Torah we find these passages:

4 You shall fulfill My ordinances and observe My statutes, to follow them. I am the Lord, your God.

22 You shall not lie down with a male, as with a woman: this is an abomination.

27 For the people of the land who preceded you, did all of these abominations, and the land became defiled.


While the passages state that those Pagan nations before this engaged in such, it was this which defiled the land. But there is no "only because it is a pagan act." It is clear that it is an "abomination" before God.

BTW, that "before God" means in front of, per, viewed by God, not simply because "other pagan's practiced it."
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Yeah it also says you cant eat lobster
 
Fictitious person in the New Testament - Joseph of Arimathea.

The reality of a town named Arimathea has been a matter of debate for a long time - like 1400 years at least.
 
Logicman said:
Ramoss: "Christains talking about Isaiah 53, and misrepresenting it. It's about the suffering of the Nation of Israel"

That's beginner's nonsense.

From: https://chaim.org/cannot-be-israel

1.The servant of Isaiah 53 is an innocent and guiltless sufferer. Israel is never described as sinless. Isaiah 1:4 says of the nation: "Alas sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity. A brood of evildoers, children who are corrupters!" He then goes on in the same chapter to characterize Judah as Sodom, Jerusalem as a harlot, and the people as those whose hands are stained with blood (verses 10, 15, and 21). What a far cry from the innocent and guiltless sufferer of Isaiah 53 who had "done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth!"

2. The prophet said: "It pleased the LORD to bruise him." Has the awful treatment of the Jewish people (so contrary, by the way, to the teaching of Jesus to love everyone) really been God's pleasure, as is said of the suffering of the servant in Isaiah 53:10 ? If, as some rabbis contend, Isaiah 53 refers to the holocaust, can we really say of Israel's suffering during that horrible period, "It pleased the LORD to bruise him?" Yet it makes perfect sense to say that God was pleased to have Messiah suffer and die as our sin offering to provide us forgiveness and atonement.

3. The person mentioned in this passage suffers silently and willingly. Yet all people, even Israelites, complain when they suffer! Brave Jewish men and women fought in resistance movements against Hitler. Remember the Vilna Ghetto Uprising? Remember the Jewish men who fought on the side of the allies? Can we really say Jewish suffering during the holocaust and during the preceding centuries was done silently and willingly?

4. The figure described in Isaiah 53 suffers, dies, and rises again to atone for his people's sins. The Hebrew word used in Isaiah 53:10 for "sin-offering" is "asham," which is a technical term meaning "sin-offering." See how it is used in Leviticus chapters 5 and 6. Isaiah 53 describes a sinless and perfect sacrificial lamb who takes upon himself the sins of others so that they might be forgiven. Can anyone really claim that the terrible suffering of the Jewish people, however undeserved and unjust, atones for the sins of the world? Whoever Isaiah 53 speaks of, the figure described suffers and dies in order to provide a legal payment for sin so that others can be forgiven. This cannot be true of the Jewish people as a whole, or of any other mere human.

5. It is the prophet who is speaking in this passage. He says: "who has believed our message." The term "message" usually refers to the prophetic message, as it does in Jeremiah 49:14. Also, when we understand the Hebrew parallelism of verse 1, we see "Who has believed our message" as parallel to "to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed." The "arm of the Lord" refers to God's powerful act of salvation. So the message of the speaker is the message of a prophet declaring what God has done to save his people.

6. The prophet speaking is Isaiah himself, who says the sufferer was punished for "the transgression of my people," according to verse 8. Who are the people of Isaiah? Israel. So the sufferer of Isaiah 53 suffered for Israel. So how could he be Israel?

So, exactly WHEN and WHERE did Israel die for the sins of Israel?
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ah yes.. Of course, that ministry trying to convert jews fails to take into account context. It's a big fail. None of that use of mis-translation is taking into account the previous passages.

Sorry, but big fail. It's taking things out of context, and it's also assumnig an analogy is a real person.
 
RAMOSS said:
ah yes.. Of course, that ministry trying to convert jews fails to take into account context. It's a big fail. None of that use of mis-translation is taking into account the previous passages.

Sorry, but big fail. It's taking things out of context, and it's also assumnig an analogy is a real person.
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That's just your usual bs.
 
Logicman said:
Right after you show my WHY the Gospel Nativity accounts are false.
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I did already. The idea that everyone had to go to the town their family came from to count the census is laughable. That never happened in Roman history
 
Logicman said:
That's just your usual bs.
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Yet, one thing your 'source' , a chrisitian ministry trying to convert Jews, doesn't actually do is answer the context of the phrase. The fact it can not shows that it's a fraud. It takes bad translations , out of context, and then takes other phrases out of context, ignoring the allegory nature of Isaiah 53 to begin with, and ignoring the entire narrative that leads up to Isaiah 53. Dishonest, and shows they are not spiritually discerning. They should be ashamed of themselves.
 
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