September 11th conspiracy theories

[teacher]

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

Well I'll be a monkeys uncle Billo you pass muster. But then you tried calling me on this first.

Ya, but could you pass California inspections?

Not untll I read up on siesmic codes. But then I live in Florida and am more concerned with comlpiing with hurricane codes.

By conventional I assume you mean "hardwired".

Conventional is straight runs into a device and out to the next and so on until the last device where the EOL is put for supervision.

Addressable being each device has an assigned "number" with a monitor module, thus giving you location of a failed device or wiring problem.

If you T-tap an adressable systems your circiut is still monitered by the moniter module. With conventional you can T-tap (splice) into a run with a new device without adding to much resistance to the circuit yet then can have a device fail with out showing trouble.

ION's are more reliable.

Not nessasaraliy. They're better in a "dirty" enviorment (machine rooms, janitor closets) where gases and fumes or vapors can give false signals to a photo.

PHOTO's get dirty a lot.

Good systems have drift compensators which solve that.

To prevent posts such as yours. In addition to Epilepsy.

Another good one Billo. Clever and witty. Credit where credit is due.

Oh, I don't know. Probably the difference between #12 and #14 AWG for Notification Appliance Circuits (NAC) and 2/c#18 (or #16) T.P. (or T.S.P.) for your SLC loop.I wouldn't mind taking the Teacher to school.

That is not going to happen in this subject.

Here I disagree. I'm just a Specifier. MEP. Although I have done field work.

Then you know the value of an educated, seasoned, experianced field tech.

I tried to bend EMT one time with a "Hickey".

It's an aquired skill. I have it.

!"Sorry, I'm keeping this god-damn forehead as long as you have a problem with it.

Doesn't bother me a bit. I rather enjoy it because then I can call you an a*ss without the gavel coming down.

F__k, I think I'm starting to like you. GOD-DAMMIT!

I know what you mean. Creepy ain't it?

Enough talking shop. The only thing this has to do with 911 is if the panel went into "alarm!"

The reason why this came up is the tin foil hatter's (those that wear tin foil hats to block the brain control waves of the government and/or aliens) contention is that WTC #7 was not hit by planes, yet fell proving that 9/11 was an inside job. Fires started and burned long enough to cause it's collapse. Without damage to the suppression system by planes the sprinklers should have done the job. They didn't which leads me to believe that the fire alarm was faulty (improbable as we pointed out as it is supervised, though not impossible, as a lazy tech can "trick" the FACP into showing green) or the Fire alarm was sabotaged or "tricked" (I can do it in a matter of seconds) and the fires started on purpose. There are reports of a know terrorist seen in #7 wearing Fire Department #10 gear. Now what do you think is the more probable? Terrorists or a government conspiracy? I think perhaps in the confusion of the planes it would be an easy thing to set #7 ablaze, corrupt the FACP and let the 6000 gallon diesel fuel tank in the building do it's work. Read my posts on this subject Billo (which if you had you would have never questioned me on this subject) and consider my points in this matter. No matter your hatred of Bush I think even you would have a hard time saying that those planes were not flown by terrorists and that our government orchestrated this whole thing. That's just to big to keep quiet. Watergate and Irangate came out and they were tiny compared to this. I am also a metal fabricator and have done structural rigging so that along with my alarm knowledge makes me strangely qualified to pontificate on the buildings fires and subsequent collapse. Read up and give me your thoughts. A united front on this subject by sworn enemies would give the foil hatters pause. Unless you think Bush did it you giant forehead.

NICET is just a shakedown to make people pay to prove what they already know. I can pass NICET 4 in this area in my sleep but don't have the "years" to qualify. Sometimes one can learn and know without tedious repetition. But then I have a massive brain.

For your knowledge everyone hell HAS frozen over and the earth will soon be flung out of orbit. The giant forehead and I agree.

 

[arussian]

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

Then you would be easily convinced. HI. I'm teacher. Read this thread from the begining. Notice #103-120. Somewhere on this thread is the expanation of why the tower hit first fell second. Hint: Weight.

So, teacher, what about weight? Please, explain your idea.

Your main point is that:
These long spans between core and face are being heated over their about 1000 degrees Fahrenheit temperature where it loses rigidity. Heated spans sag like a BBQ grill. Sagging trusses increase pressure on truss to face anchor bolts above shear strength and fail.
Domino.…Floor falls on floor unable to bear weight of above falling floors weight and its own with its own sagging. … Pancake.

Although, your guess has very small explanatory power* let it stay for a while. So, how the weight of above floors affects the time of “sagging of trusses” which is caused by the temperature alone?
To put it another way, how do vertical forces of weight affect horizontal forces of “sagging”?

____________________
*It has it because it does not explain why the central core of the building has ruined. Let the floors may fall under the weight of above floors (which also has its own absurdities), but central columns would stay at least for some time, we would have seen them on video.

Regarding teachers “pan-cake – domino” idea. It is totally impossible, because every floor in any construction is made in a way that stands at least about ten of its own weights. Otherwise, controlled demolition would have been that easy, just burst the upper floor and the thing is done.

A “pan-cake” because of “sagging” is also an absurd. Sagging is extremely non-uniform, heterogeneous process, it will never give a plain “pan-cake”. I.e. some of the parts of a floor will fall while other will stay. Therefore, an under floor will not be exposed even to the weight of a “complete” upper floor.

 

[Buzzcut62]

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

Hey, teacher! Know anything about CSC systems? I used to work for CSC before the Tyco buyout manufacturing the head units. I don't understand all of the tech babble you were talking with 'Billo', but I know a little about the sprinklers themselves. I don't recall what systems I did installs on with Nat'l Guardian almost 20 years ago either, but I'm sure that whatyever we have today is far superior to the crap we had then.

 

[teacher]

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

Hey, teacher! Know anything about CSC systems?

What does CSC stand for? What do they make? Sprinkler stuff? Fire alarm stuff? Do you mean maybe DSC? They are owned by Tyco. A Canadian co. Security equipment. Quickly becoming my favorite alarm panel.

 

[teacher]

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

Perhaps if you had left out "guess" and "very small explanatory power" and "absurd", I would be civil about this.

When you try to throw smack on me, teacher, have your ducks in a row.

Trouble with English?

So, teacher, what about weight? Please, explain your idea.Your main point is that:

By teacher.-These long spans between core and face are being heated over their about 1000 degrees Fahrenheit temperature where it loses rigidity. Heated spans sag like a BBQ grill. Sagging trusses increase pressure on truss to face anchor bolts above shear strength and fail.
Domino.…Floor falls on floor unable to bear weight of above falling floors weight and its own with its own sagging. … Pancake

You. Although, your guess has very small explanatory power* let it stay for a while. So, how the weight of above floors affects the time of “sagging of trusses” which is caused by the temperature alone?

I'm having trouble getting the point of this sentance. Please refine.

To put it another way, how do vertical forces of weight affect horizontal forces of “sagging”?

Again, trouble. Maybe your asking for this. Take a ten foot 2x4 and support in on two saw horses under the ends of the 2x4. Stand on it next to a saw horse and you're cool. Stand in the middle and you're on your ass.

You. *It has it because it does not explain why the central core of the building has ruined. Let the floors may fall under the weight of above floors (which also has its own absurdities), but central columns would stay at least for some time, we would have seen them on video.

Are you one of those "if the core is still good then the building is just fine" people? "Let the floors may"? Huh?

Regarding teachers “pan-cake – domino” idea. It is totally impossible, because every floor in any construction is made in a way that stands at least about ten of its own weights. Otherwise, controlled demolition would have been that easy, just burst the upper floor and the thing is done.

A “pan-cake” because of “sagging” is also an absurd. Sagging is extremely non-uniform, heterogeneous process, it will never give a plain “pan-cake”. I.e. some of the parts of a floor will fall while other will stay. Therefore, an under floor will not be exposed even to the weight of a “complete” upper floor.

I'm tired of this already. I'm gonna go pound another nail in the coffin and sip a sud then come back and decide on which method I'll use to take you to the woodshed. If all all.

Ah that's better. Upon further reflection I'll stick with my oft posted on this thread statement of, "this will not stand". Referring to the fact that you people trying to say my country orchestrated this tragedy disrespects the death of the civilians and the sacrifice of the police and firemen. Heads up.

Listen up sport. I'll back this down to romper room level.

A floor. A long truss connects the core to face columns. The truss is connected to the core by two 3/4" bolts, to the face by two 5/8" bolts. Take said 2x4 and drive nails into the sawhorses. Suppose the 2x4 doesn't break when you stand in the middle. The tension when you stand on it verses not it's way greater on the nails. Transfer that image to the trusses and imagine the greater force on the truss to column bolts because of sagging trusses due to heat induced failure of rigidity. Sooner or later you will exceed the shear point of those bolts. Bolts fail. Truss falls upon next floor. The force of the truss weight is magnified by acceleration. The below floor now carries the weight of itself, and the weight of a falling above floor truss. Now keep in mind the already compromised structure failure from the planes impact and the compromised integrity of the trusses from heat. How can the below floor not fail? And so on. Pancake. Domino. Feel stupid yet?

Now your idiotic statement about blow the top floor and the rest will fall is asinine. How about we blow the 97th floor and let that floor fail bringing down the weight of that floor onto the 96th, AND THE WEIGHT OF ALL THE FLOORS ABOVE IT. How about now? Feel stupid? If not then your too dumb to realize it. I got lots of time junior. Bring it.

Or try this. Go build yourself a scale erector set model of the towers. Load the spans with weight. Put your head under it and take a blow torch to the spans. Call me when you get out of the hospital.

Class dismissed.

 

[Buzzcut62]

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

For 'teacher':

CSC was Central Sprinkler Company. They were located in Lansdale, PA. They manufactured spinkler head units, valve bodies, etc. The control systems were not done by CSC. They were notorious for the Omega line that was recalled in '97-'98. Most of the product line was seperated by Tyco into smaller, individual 'companies'. The Mikron Dept., which is the part of the company that did the heads, was moved to Texas. That was the department I had worked for. The rest of the company is now scattered about the US. As far as I know, they still have some part of the organization in Lansdale. I left there in '99 amidst all the turmoil of the take-over.

 

[teacher]

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

For 'teacher':

In that case, no, haven't heard of them. Most I have to do with sprinklers is flow switches and valve tampers. You might enjoy this though. On one job someone screwed up and new sprinkler water fed to water fountains. And you thought bong water was bad....gah.

 

[Christopher Brooks]

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

Teacher , when are you going to provide an explanation for the Silverstein confession?

I`m not avoiding you teach, just waiting for your answer.

 

[teacher]

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

Teacher , when are you going to provide an explanation for the Silverstein confession?

I`m not avoiding you teach, just waiting for your answer.

Yea I know you pin all your hopes and dreams on that one statement don't you genius? But I did back on post #307. Still waiting for you to explain ONE fault with MY explanation. How about now? Not avoiding me huh? Why when I see you viewing his thread and I PM you you log off right away. Before I did last time I got a witness. Shall we get him? Your a liar. Just because you say something a lot don't mean it's right. You'll never find a chink in this armour. Who are you?

 

[arussian]

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

Teacher: I'm having trouble getting the point of this sentance. Please refine.

Regarding your troubles with understanding. The question I’ve posed was “how the tower hit second has fallen down first?” If it was due to trusses sagging caused by fire, this process in the first hit tower was much more profound so it should have fallen also the first.
In respond you’ve proposed a “hint” that was “weight”.
I’ve asked you, “what about weight?”, how it affects the sagging of trusses that depends on the temperature only. Is it clear now?

Your example with saw-horses seems to me irrelevant, unless you kindly explain what stands in a Twin Tower for one saw-horse, other saw-horse and the object, that you have referenced to as “you”? Remember that columns of core don’t press on the floors they hold them!

Teacher: Now your idiotic statement about blow the top floor and the rest will fall is asinine. How about we blow the 97th floor and let that floor fail bringing down the weight of that floor onto the 96th, AND THE WEIGHT OF ALL THE FLOORS ABOVE IT. How about now? Feel stupid? If not then your too dumb to realize it. I got lots of time junior. Bring it.

I also referenced to this idea as absurd. I’ve written “otherwise demolition would be that simple…”. The problem is that I cannot guess, where it differs from your “pan-cake – domino” explanation.
You also wrote:

Teacher: Bolts fail. Truss falls upon next floor. The force of the truss weight is magnified by acceleration.[from the height of about 12 ft. it is great of course] The below floor now carries the weight of itself, and the weight of a falling above floor truss. Now keep in mind the already compromised structure failure from the planes impact and the compromised integrity of the trusses from heat. How can the below floor not fail?

I would respond that some bolts and some trusses surely failed during the fire within those 3-4 floors those were mostly affected by it. Nevertheless, the under floors accepted them all right, because they were not so sagged and were designed to withstand much more loadings.

It is much more important that in your “pan-cake - domino” explanation the core of the building is missing. Do you suppose that falling floors were able to disassemble its’ hard and strongly connected to each other columns with such a remarkable speed and regularity? :roll: :lol:

Teacher: Are you one of those "if the core is still good then the building is just fine" people? "Let the floors may"? Huh?

Exactly! Core is the “core” of the problem! If fire and impact have damaged it in their place, we should see the upper part of the building (above fire) fall down aside. While the rest of building would stay.
If fire and impact had not damaged it, we would have seen exactly what we have actually seen at the end of the fire (shortly before demolition). Both towers are standing straight, although severely smoking.

But the total collapse is possible only if the core is completely damaged from the top to the bottom!.
Otherwise:
1) the part of building with undamaged core would stay. Or (being blown from beneath) fall down aside staying relatively integer.
2) or (if "pan-cake - domino" would be valid regarding the floors) we should have seen the core standing in the midst of fallen floors.

Teacher: Referring to the fact that you people trying to say my country orchestrated this tragedy disrespects the death of the civilians and the sacrifice of the police and firemen. Heads up.

The most important, teacher, I (as well as I hope other participants) don’t have intention to blame the whole country. Actually, it doesn’t have sense, because country cannot orchestrate anything, although some bastards within it can. It is also possible that these bastards sit rather high. It will be good for the country and the whole world to re-investigate this case deep and thoroughly, truly answer all the questions, identify all of the bastards including the inward ones, and prosecute them.

 

[arussian]

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

Summary of above

Believers of official tales about multiplication effect of falling floors (aka “pan-cake – domino” version) have two options:

1) Believe that the falling floors have disconnected from the columns of core and perimeter. Doing this they imply that at least the core remained to stand (perhaps, as well as some of the perimeter columns). This contradicts the all-known fact that the whole building has fallen.

2) Believe that the falling floors ruined columns of the both core and perimeter. This contradicts any sense whatever, because it is unclear how core and perimeter those were designed to carry the whole weight of the building could ruin because of the floors that they have always carried.

Choose your favorite absurdity!

 

[teacher]

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

Regarding your troubles with understanding. The question I’ve posed was “how the tower hit second has fallen down first?” If it was due to trusses sagging caused by fire, this process in the first hit tower was much more profound so it should have fallen also the first.
In respond you’ve proposed a “hint” that was “weight”.
I’ve asked you, “what about weight?”, how it affects the sagging of trusses that depends on the temperature only. Is it clear now?

I gave a hint to try to get you see see this through yourself. I see now you're incapable of that. The tower hit second was hit lower. Therefore had more wieght on the damaged area. Get it?

Your example with saw-horses seems to me irrelevant, unless you kindly explain what stands in a Twin Tower for one saw-horse, other saw-horse and the object, that you have referenced to as “you”? Remember that columns of core don’t press on the floors they hold them!

I see you haven't done my suggested erector set experiment.
I also referenced to this idea as absurd. I’ve written “otherwise demolition would be that simple…”. The problem is that I cannot guess, where it differs from your “pan-cake – domino” explanation.
You also wrote:

I would respond that some bolts and some trusses surely failed during the fire within those 3-4 floors those were mostly affected by it. Nevertheless, the under floors accepted them all right, because they were not so sagged and were designed to withstand much more loadings.

It is much more important that in your “pan-cake - domino” explanation the core of the building is missing. Do you suppose that falling floors were able to disassemble its’ hard and strongly connected to each other columns with such a remarkable speed and regularity? :roll: :lol:

Exactly! Core is the “core” of the problem! If fire and impact have damaged it in their place, we should see the upper part of the building (above fire) fall down aside. While the rest of building would stay.
If fire and impact had not damaged it, we would have seen exactly what we have actually seen at the end of the fire (shortly before demolition). Both towers are standing straight, although severely smoking.

But the total collapse is possible only if the core is completely damaged from the top to the bottom!.
Otherwise:
1) the part of building with undamaged core would stay. Or (being blown from beneath) fall down aside staying relatively integer.
2) or (if "pan-cake - domino" would be valid regarding the floors) we should have seen the core standing in the midst of fallen floors.

The most important, teacher, I (as well as I hope other participants) don’t have intention to blame the whole country. Actually, it doesn’t have sense, because country cannot orchestrate anything, although some bastards within it can. It is also possible that these bastards sit rather high. It will be good for the country and the whole world to re-investigate this case deep and thoroughly, truly answer all the questions, identify all of the bastards including the inward ones, and prosecute them.

I enjoyed your little statement alluding to the height of 12' feet not being great enough to multiply force. Set a bowling ball on your foot. No problem. Drop it on your foot from 12 inches. Now you got a problem. You failed all your mechanical reasoning and spatial relations tests, didn't you?
Just go read. It's there.

 

[arussian]

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

Ok, teacher! I'm generous now! Let all the floors have fallen down to the ground!
Have they ruined also the core and the perimeter columns?
(Within 10-15 seconds while the time of free fall was about 9 sec?). I.e. they almost haven't encountered any resistance!
Pay attention to that the core and perimeter have collapsed simultaneously with the floors! Not after some time. We've never seen the core alone standing!

If you say "yes, the floors ruined also the core and perimeter" then it contradicts your own pan-cake version, that supposed them to be disassembled from core and perimeter. And simultaneous collapse could only happen if they somehow pulled the core and perimeter columns down together with them. :doh

If you say "no" then what has happened to core and perimeter? Why they were not standing in the midst of fallen floors at least for some time?

While if we assume that the core was detonated top-down, everything becomes clear. The core ruined involving the floors as well, and the floors involved relatively weak perimeter.

Just consider contradictions and strangeness of official version and clarity of the alternative. Where is the truth?

 

[teacher]

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

arussian,
What's your professional background? I'm trying to fathom your complete lack of comprehension here. I'm guessing hair dresser or fish cleaner. Did you read my posts on this matter starting at #103? I'm not retyping for you. I was right in one of my first guesses. Your one of those "core" people. Consider the placement of collums. Do you really think if the core was undamaged, just the outside of the building would have fallen away like a calving glacier? The "core" is not some inner sanctum of super strength. It is the normal layout of collums. The difference in the WTC is many collums were placed on the face of the building so there could be open collum free office spaces between the "core" and face.
Where do you people come from? So you think if the top floor is blown it will force the whole building down? Dude, impact and fire damaged the tower at around the 80th floor. That's 30 stories of building weight above it pressing down on that damaged structure. How can it not fail? You've got "issues" don't you? You want so fervently to find fault in my country that science and logic are beyond you. And now you've thrown in with the "no resistance" conspiracy crowd. Yea, okay, we have a way to create a vacuum around a building with no visible equipment so as to facilitate the speedier collapse of the building. Love that reletivly weak perimeter part. The perimeter was the strongest part. All those collums so close together. Are you coming up with stuff on your own? Surely it takes a whole pack of idiots to come up with this amount of stupidity. You're a friggin wing nut.



Now put your foil hat back on a make me a nice Halibut fillet.

 

[Tetracide]

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

A good read.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=1

 

[Didga]

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

Upon further reflection I'll stick with my oft posted on this thread statement of, "this will not stand". Referring to the fact that you people trying to say my country orchestrated this tragedy disrespects the death of the civilians and the sacrifice of the police and firemen. Heads up.

What I am saying is that elements in the U.S government have historically planned and carried out terror attacks and other operations to achieve a political agenda.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

The Pearl Harbor and the Gulf of Tonkin attacks appear to have facts that question the official explanation of events.

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/pearl.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_Resolution

As well as other examples of the US administration abusing their citizens for political gain.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/us_prisoners_claim_roosevelt_left_them_in_philippines_deliberately.htm

Given this historical perspective it is easy to see that elements in the US administration are more than capable of carrying out terror attacks on their own citizens to further a political agenda. Examine 911 with the knowledge that it just might be another in a long line of terror and other manipulated attacks carried out by the US government for a particular reason.

 

[teacher]

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

What I am saying is that elements in the U.S government have historically planned and carried out terror attacks and other operations to achieve a political agenda.

Given this historical perspective it is easy to see that elements in the US administration are more than capable of carrying out terror attacks on their own citizens to further a political agenda. Examine 911 with the knowledge that it just might be another in a long line of terror and other manipulated attacks carried out by the US government for a particular reason.

Batten down your foil hat.

This is a new administration. You're not gonna get away with the "sins of those that came before" crap. Not on my watch.

I'm not gonna view your conspiracy theory links. You think they got merit? Put it in your own words. Tell me. Then I'll chew it and you up and spit.

This is about 9/11. You got other problems then find the right thread or start your own.

Eloquence doesn't translate into correctness.

Try harder.

Bring your own thoughts.

Or just go the fuc*k away.

Just like the rest.

Read ALL my posts in this thread. Find a hole.

You'd be the first.

Yes, I am that good.

I'm always here.

 

[arussian]

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

Teacher

arussian,
What's your professional background? I'm trying to fathom your complete lack of comprehension here. I'm guessing hair dresser or fish cleaner.

What’s the problem? If your position is sound, you’ll be able to explain it to anybody.
If you are tired then who force you to answer?
Actually, I can tell a terrible secret. It is about a fortnight since I began seriously thinking that Americans could explode WTC1, 2 & 7 and this very thread has played decisive role in it.

The "core" is not some inner sanctum of super strength. It is the normal layout of collums. The difference in the WTC is many collums were placed on the face of the building so there could be open collum free office spaces between the "core" and face

.

Does it mean that you propose to expand the “pan-cake – domino” explanation that initially referred to floors and trusses to the core with its’ different structure?

Perhaps it could be, done perhaps – not, some additional facts about the core and its structure required. Actually, there are some serious doubts about the "trusses" as well. Ok leave it for now.
I would like to base on something clear and evident. Let us consider the following.

By his statement: “Do you really think if the core was undamaged, just the outside of the building would have fallen away like a calving glacier?” teacher definitely expresses idea that core was damaged to some extent in both of the buildings. As WTC2 has fallen 47 minutes sooner, its’ example deserves to be considered first. The way of plane’s strike to WTC2 was essentially asymmetric.

Official version claims that:

Photographic evidence suggests that from 27 to 32 columns along the south building face were destroyed over a five-story range. Partial collapse of floors in this zone appears to have occurred over a horizontal length of approximately 70 feet, while floors in other portions of the building appeared to remain intact. It is probable that the columns in the southeast corner of the core also experienced some damage because they would have been in the direct travel path of the fuselage and port engine.

Therefore, if there is a best place for pan-cake domino theory then it is the southeast and southwest sides floors in WTC2.

Let us suppose that the plane damaged the whole core area to the right from the engine line.
Let it be so generous! It will be about 20% of the core (5-10% in reality).
Could such an impact cause domino effect within the core?
The most important, if the hit was so essentially bilateral (southeast - southwest sides) then how collapse has occurred uniformly in all of the 4 directions?

Instead, it is more probable that the upper part of the building would bent and then glide aside, somehow in the way that we’ve really seen in the very beginning of collapse.

Official version even says:

The top portion of WTC 2 falls to the east, then south, as viewed from the northeast.

Why then the core and the whole building beneath has ruined to the very bottom?
Domino effect is likely to have place only on the one part of the building, why had the whole structure collapsed uniformly?

Actually, I have rather “creative”, so to say, explanation of it in favor of official version, but let first this dude “teacher” propose his one.

 

[Didga]

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

This is a new administration. You're not gonna get away with the "sins of those that came before" crap. Not on my watch.

Actually the links between this Bush/Cheney admin and those that came before are quite strong

I'm not gonna view your conspiracy theory links. You think they got merit? Put it in your own words. Tell me. Then I'll chew it and you up and spit.

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is hardly a conspiracy theory link.

This is about 9/11. You got other problems then find the right thread or start your own.

Understanding 911 is a big issue with many contributing factors that may be relevant.

Eloquence doesn't translate into correctness.

Try harder.

Bring your own thoughts.

Or just go the fuc*k away.

Just like the rest.

Read ALL my posts in this thread. Find a hole.

You'd be the first.

Yes, I am that good.

I'm always here.

The Project for the New American Century was founded in 1997 by Jeb Bush, **** Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz and Donald Rumsfeld. This organization actually published documents suggesting the need for helpful” Pearl Harbor like events” in order to convince the American public to support a “war on terror”. On 9/11/01 this event did occur and allowed the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq to go ahead.

Jeb Bush ran security for world trade center complex.
Donald Rumsfeld is Secretary of Defense.
**** Cheney Vice President.
Paul Wolfowitz is currently President of the World Bank.

The very men that had the means to carry out 911 as an inside job also planned for it to occur before it actually did. All these men had motive and have now profited from the 911 terror attacks.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

 

[naptowntruthseeker]

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

I'm Baaaack :2razz: Here's a little bit of text to chew on.


Ok, this is to all of the people who still believe 9/11 was the work of 19 Arabic Hijackers and an operation entirely masterminded by Osama Bin Laden, mainly because he hates our freedom’s and disagrees with American Liberalism. Despite all of their hard work, the United States Government simply could not see the attack coming.

When one considers all of the hardcore facts, there is no way this excuse holds even a grain of truth in it. The official story is impossible and simply does not stand up to scrutiny. Even more laughable is the excuse given by government officials that it was simply a "failure of intelligence" and the attack could not be averted. Politicians should not even form their mouths to even use an incompetence excuse. Warnings were received by the US by at least 18 other countries, and agents in the CIA, and the FBI were warned. The FAA got warnings too. In fact,

Prior Knowledge:

CIA had high-jacker details
Taliban warned the US of huge attack
FBI warned of plot to high-jack planes in 1995
FBI warned of Suspicious flight student last yearCIA ignorned warnings of Al-Queda
US knew of Suicide highjack threat in 1995
The airlift of evil
Threat of US attacks passed Taliban weeks before the attacks
US clamps secrecy on attacks before 911


It seems that there were so many warnings, that


"The information provided by European intelligence services prior to 9/11 was so extensive that it is no longer possible for either the CIA or FBI to assert a defence of incompetence." Micheal Meacher, Tony Blairs former environmental advisor until 2003. London Guardian

In addition to these Government officials and other people received individuals warnings as well. Mayor Willie Brown was warned by Condoleezza Rice not to fly on 911, author Salmon Rushdie was publicly banned from flying before 911, and John Ashcroft former Attorney General stopped flying commercially six months before 911. Even some people working inside of the towers got instant messages, telling them to evacuate the WTC.

We must ask ourselves, where did all this prior knowledge come from, and why was it all ignored? Is it possible for that this much information of this magnitude of importance to get tangled up in a beaurecratic web of telephone lines? The answer is NO, people in side of the Trade Towers got INSTANT MESSAGES telling them the buildings were going to be destroyed two hours before it happened. You’re going to tell me someone can get an INSTANT MESSAGE to someone inside the World Trade Center two hours before the attack, but no one can get the message to the President of the United States? Bullshit. Condoleezza Rice calls Mayor Willie Brown and tells HIM not to fly, BUT SHE CAN'T CALL THE PRESIDENT AND TELL HIM TO STOP THE ATTACK?!?!?

Sources:

Odigo Says Workers Were Warned of the Attack
San Francisco Chronicle - Mayor Willie Brown got Low-Key Warning about Air Travel
The Truth Seeker-Condi Lisa Rice Warned Willie Brown and Told him not to fly on 911
CBS News - Ashcroft Flying High


In addition there are over 600 smoking gun holes and unanswered questions in the official story of 911; I'm only going to scratch the surface, w/ some of the main ones.

First thing is the NORAD stand down order.

"The first hijacking was suspected at not later than 8.20am, and the last hijacked aircraft crashed in Pennsylvania at 10.06am. Not a single fighter plane was scrambled to investigate from the US Andrews airforce base, just 10 miles from Washington DC, until after the third plane had hit the Pentagon at 9.38 am. Why not? There were standard FAA intercept procedures for hijacked aircraft before 9/11. Between September 2000 and June 2001 the US military launched fighter aircraft on 67 occasions to chase suspicious aircraft" (AP, August 13 2002)
guardian, once again

NORAD completely stood down, this is a clear violation of FAA flight regulations, and NORAD could have probably stopped the attack, at least partially. The morning of 911 NORAD was training in a war game of flying hijacked aircrafts into buildings ON the Morning of 911. On the Morning of 911??!?! Yep, the drill stopped just 50 minutes before the Hi-Jacking began. No wonder there was no Military Response, NORAD was told that the planes being Hijacked were just part of a drill. That's why they stood down.

What are the chances of this happening? It's just a coincidence that they were running a war-game drill of the same monumental event to be documented in history books for centuries? Of course it’s possible, but very unlikely.

This is so weird to have happened, and even weirder is the fact that this type of a wargame is going on the morning of 911. This type of event would be simmilar to seeing Oswald and the CIA training how to kill Kennedy in Dealy Plaza an hour before it happened.

Yahoo News - Agency planned exercise on Sept. 11 built around a plane crashing into a building
USA Today - NORAD has drills to use jets as weapons
Associated Press - Exercise built around crashing planes into buildings



In addition, the list of the 19 hijackers and their picture identification was assembled and aired just hours after the attack. How do we jump to the accusations that 19 suspects are guilty of 3,000 American murders when most, if not all of the evidence, is twisted metal and degenerated ashes that used to be people? Actually by the time the hijackers had their mug shots aired on TV, all of the crime scenes had been destroyed. Buildings one and two collapsed, as well as the mysterious building seven collapsing on its own, the plane that hit the pentagon decentegrated, and flight 93 was likely shot down, hours later we miraculously post all of their mug shots on the news? Damn, we must be good.

So how exactly did the United States leap to their allegations of guilt?

A travel bag belonging to one of the 911 hijackers was found at the airport after the attacks, absolutely ruling beyond any doubt, that this was the work of Al-Queda.

Question: Why would a hijacker, planning to commit suicide, even BRING A BAG? Let alone pack it w/ incriminating evidence sure to unleash a fire storm of military hell on all of his fellow Afghani people? The bag contained enough evidences to precisely tie the perpetrators to the Taliban and Al-Queda justify the assault in Afghanistan.
(911 the Great Illusion)

Answer: this is MANUFACTURED EVIDENCE


Now BBC has began running stories that many of these men have shown up as being still alive. 911 eleven Hijackers steal our planes to suicide attack us because were not doing what Allah says, and then they show up still being alive. So that means that at least five of the men on the hi-jackers list cannot be the same men who were on the plane. But the government has stuck to their official story on this, and no one in the mainstream media has ever brought this up, or challenged them on it. Many of the Hijackers are now appearing on television in their countries and professing their innocence. A lot of information like this has been circulating around other parts of the world, and it is likely part of the reason why America's image has dropped from negative to terrible. Most people in other countries know this is going on, but Americans are sleeping.


The Truth is unleashed in other parts of the world but it’s concealed from American eyes as a way to demonize Americans to the rest of the world, while American media demonizes the rest of the world (particularly Arabs) to America, this is a way of polarizing both side to inspire conflict on both sides.

Sources:


High JAck Suspects alive and well
High Jack Suspects Alive in Morroco


Bombs in the Towers

 

[naptowntruthseeker]

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

___ This next part is important, because it's hardcore vissual evidence of government involvement in 9/11 and is nearly impossible to deny.

Building seven, first of all, was the third building to collapse within the World Trade Center Complex. According to the government’s official story, building seven was destroyed from fire, along with buildings one and two.

Videos Show Building 7's 6.5 second symmetrical collapse

First of all it’s important to say that fire has never once brought a steel structure down. Out of 100 uncontrolled fires in the last 50 years NEVER has fire collapsed a steel building, only earthquakes and explosives have been able to flatten these architectural structures.

So, why is building seven so significant? It’s important because building seven collapsed without being struck by an airplane or anything else, almost as if it were the wind that knocked it over.

Several videos have been salvaged which show building seven's collapse and shocking evidence has surfaced from scrutiny.

CBS Broadcast of Buildinding Seven's fall - Dan Rather admits it looks like Explosives
Building Seven's Collapase from a mile away
Building Seven's Colapse from 1000 feet away, this is very obvious

You see, building seven DECENTEGRATED INTO RUBBLE in a vertical symmetrical fashion in 6.5 seconds. If building seven was taken down by an aircraft impact (even though it was not) it would have thrown back horizontally, transferring the energy away from the airplane impacts. And if it was fire that had brought it down, we would have seen the structure reduced into liquid metal, and the streets would be a river of flame. But this building simply fell straight to the ground and crumbled.

I need to explain something about controlled demolition. First of all, when buildings are demolished the explosives are placed in the central column, so the structure falls inwards and does not damage other surrounding buildings. So they only way the building can fall like this or fall period is through the use of explosives.

THE FEMA REPORT ON WORLD TRADE CENTER 7 COLLAPSE IS A TOTAL JOKE.

 

[naptowntruthseeker]

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

“Each of the following videos shows the entire visible portion of the building falling with a vertical precision otherwise seen only in controlled demolition. Moreover, they show that the collapse took only about 6.5 seconds from start to finish. That rate of fall is within a second of the time it would take an object to fall from the building's roof with no air resistance”

BUT, building seven is even more important because the offical story of building seven collapse is because it was damaged from fire, HOWEVER, Larry Silverstine the owner of buildings one, two, and seven, got on televiosn on America Rebuilds on PBS, and slipped up, ADMITTING, THAT HE BLEW UP BUILDING SEVEN, He Said "WE PULLED THE BUILDING!" Here's the video from the PBS documentary.

http://infowars.com/Video/911/wtc7_pbs.WMV

Here's another clip where a demolitions expert describes "PULL IT" As a controlled demolition.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/pullit2.mp3

NOW, it's extremely important to mention that rigging buildins with explosives is a tiresom and very time consuming process, and to properly plant explosives in mathematicaly harmonious fasion to create a smooth symetrical drop. Actually it would take weeks to prepare for the demolition. So not only does Larry Silverstine, the owner of the complex admit to blowing up building seven, But building seven COULD NOT have been demolished on such short notice. Weeks of demolitions planning does not jive well with Osama's suprise attack. In fact it's impossible.

Even some former Bush insiders have went public and stated that the offical story of the collapse is a complete fraud.

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20...02755-6408r.htm


Good lookin to Dem Bruce Lee Stylez, and his MIGHTY nine eleven thread right here

Historical Comparison

----The Burning of the Reichstag



In 1933 Adolph Hitler wanted to seize dictotorial powers and turn Germany into a police state. So he set the massive governmental building on fire, that is known as the Reichstag (German Parliament) the blazing infernos sent the population into a state of petrified fear. Adolph Hitler and his party won by a landslide in the election just weeks later and later on was able to merge the Chancellor’s powers with that of the Presidents, and this is the origin of where his dictatorial power came from. Hitler also blamed the terrorist attack on the communists, and recived a pretext, or a reason, to attack them.

 

[naptowntruthseeker]

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

The real Pretext

Hitler’s conspiratorial tactic of burning the Reichstag to receive dictatorial power, and a pretext to attack his enemies is a method that is known as the Hegelian Dialectic, which is translated simply as problem, reaction, solution. The Hegelian Dialectic is a tactic that was developed by the 19th century German philosopher George Wilhelm Fredric Hegel. The way this works is, you create a crisis, the population is thrown into fear, and then you, the creator of the crisis, step in with a pre-organized solution, and pose as the savior. As soon as 911 occurred, literally while the smoke was still streaming from the building, politicians began targeting us with Doublethink approaches to get us to give up our freedom for security.

I don't want to digress too much, but this is important.

Doublethink is the practice of misrepresenting something bad as something good, such as pushing identity theft propaganda in order to get the people wanting a national ID card. This was the phrase coined in George Orwell's book 1984, which psychologically persuaded the population to relinquish there freedom unto big brother and simultaneously be happy about it. We see doublethink utilized daily by politicians.

The Hegelian Dialectic fused with the double think approach has given ruthless men an unbelievably effective tactic of power consolidation. But this time it's bigger,

PNAC(Project For a New American Centeury

The Project for a New American Century (PNAC) was founded by **** Chenney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Lewis Libby and others in 2000. This is a pro-globalization neo-con think tank. On his website **** Cheney lays out a Blueprint for America to invade many of it's neighbors and construct a "global command and control system" Cheney sites Syria, Libya, and North Korea as terrorist regimes, and uses their existence to justify invasions and restructuring there powers under a Pax America. It's strange, earlier in the year, Rumsfeld was selling Nuclear Reactors to North Korea. Now he's sitting in meetings at PNAC calling them a dangerous regime. HaHa, who made them more dangerous, Mr. Rumsfeld?
This document also mentions that public support would be very difficult to rally for these upcoming wars, and that a "Pearl Harbor Like Attack" would be very helpful. Now this is a public document, saying we need helpful Pearl Harbor attacks, that's motive, and practically admittance.

Sources:

PNAC offical site read the documents.
Meacher talks about PNAC too
Guardian UK - The Two Faces of Rumseld

Not only this, but


"the US and the UK, are running dangerously low on hydrocarbon energy supplies. And by 2010 the Muslim world will control as much as 60% of the worlds oil production, and 95% of the remaining exportable oil. "

Protecting oil supplies in a crisis
Taliban to Texas for Oil Talks
Bottom of the Barrel, the world is runnin out of oil, why do Politicans refuse to talk about it?
Threats of US to strike Taliban weeks before the attacks



Cui Bono(Who Benefits?)

 

[naptowntruthseeker]

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

Three Corporations involved in the war on terror/The World effort. They are the
Carlyle Group, Unocal, and Halliburton,

Carlyle group: Bush and the Bin Laden family are BOTH investors in this company, that is headed almost exclusively by former government officals. They develope missile targetting systems, and have exponenctially increased their profits since 911.


Unocal: Bush just hired the former CEO, I believe to his administration, others inside the camp are investors as well. This is the company building the pipeline through Afganistan, to route the oil out, they are poised to make a killing off of oil deals directly resulting from 911 after math.

Halliburton: I don't even half to say it. Well incase I do, Halliburton is a construction company rakeing in billions of dollars from rebuilding the spots on the map, after America destroys them.

And to top all that off,

"No serious attempt has ever been made to catch Bin Laden. In late September and early October 2001, leaders of Pakistan's two Islamist parties negotiated Bin Laden's extradition to Pakistan to stand trial for 9/11. However, a US official said, significantly, that "casting our objectives too narrowly" risked "a premature collapse of the international effort if by some lucky chance Mr Bin Laden was captured". The US chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, General Myers, went so far as to say that "the goal has never been to get Bin Laden" (AP, April 5 2002). The whistle blowing FBI agent Robert Wright told ABC News (December 19 2002) that FBI headquarters wanted no arrests. And in November 2001 the US air force complained it had had al-Qaida and Taliban leaders in its sights as many as 10 times over the previous six weeks, but had been unable to attack because they did not receive permission quickly enough (Time Magazine, May 13 2002). None of this assembled evidence, all of which comes from sources already in the public domain, is compatible with the idea of a real, determined war on terrorism"
Micheal Meacher

The War on terror is not the war on terror, it's putting the PNAC agenda into action.

Not only have they blatantly avoided chances to catch Bin Laden, but many reporters have written articles about top government officials holding the investigation in the dark, delaying them, and in some cases even protecting the terrorists. I'd post the actual document but I'm out of picture slots so you have to settle for the article, or research the rest yourself.

Bush restricts 911 probesTop Taladan leader freed by US
911 study hindered
Bush trying to hide 911 information
911 documents to sensitive for realse
Bush discourages 911 investagations
Times of India - Bush took FBI agents off the Trail of Bin Ladens
Guardian UK - Agent Blasts FBI over 11 Sept 'cover up'


Goes on and on

 

[naptowntruthseeker]

Re: 911 WAS an inside job.

ILLUMINATI NEW WORLD ORDER, THE CARD GAME

Not only has PNAC directly stated that they want "helpful Pearl Harbor Attacks" in their offical documents, but a card game entitled Illuminati New World Order, surfaced in 1995, which discribed the events of 911 with a shocking level of acuracy. The game INWO contained cards that said the words "Terrorist Nuke" at the top with an illustration of the Twin Towers being destroyed clearly shows tower one being demolished first.

-This amazingly means, that this card predicted almost exacty what what happened in New York City, six years before the actual event. It also identifies the villians as "Terrorist" at the top, which was not a term used nearly as much before 911, I don't know about the nuke part, although explosives were definetly in use on September 11th.

-The explosion on the card is very close to the actual planes entry point.

-Another interesting thing to note, is the illuminati pyramid to the left of tower two.

This card is chilling. We know that the plane or the missile or whatever hit the pentagon, peirce through several walls puncturneing holes through several of the steel reinforced concrecte walls at the Pentagon, and actually exploded somwhere in the middle, Although it took out a wing, the rest of the pentagon was unscathed.

Here is a flash of the Pentagon which accurately shows the damage very simmilar to this card.

http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryho...ntagon.php#Main

Funny how they got both of these right and didn't make any mistakes six years before the attack, perhaps someone had advanced knowledge of it.

On March 1st 1990 the Secret Service and Austin Police raided Steve Jackson, the maker of the game's, office and confiscated four of his computers. Steve JAckson games fought back in court, but nearly suffered bankrupcy in the process. The charges were so bogues on the affavid that the judge awarded $50,000 as well as attornies fees to SJG. It's strange the secret service would bother the manufactuer of a role playing game, perhaps it was to stop them from realeaseing Illuminati New World Order.

Here is the website of the game maker.
http://www.sjgames.com/inwo/

And props to the Cutting Edge for bringing this to my attention, most of what I have articulated is paraphrased from their article on INWO. Although theirs gets a bit too weird for me, here is the original article and props to them once again.