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School shooting averted, thanks Kentucky police

Rucker61 said:
My point is that weapons in common use can be converted to illegal form and use, and that capability is not sufficient reason to restrict them.
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First, you didn’t the questions I posed. Second, provide evidence of a weapon that is banned solely because of the ability to modify it.
 
TurtleDude said:
if cops need automatic weapons to deal with the criminals they encounter AFTER those criminals have attacked citizens then Certainly those same citizens should have access to the same weapons since they are the actual FIRST responders to most criminal attacks.

on top of that -citizens should be able to access the same weaponry that their own government chooses to use against them
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Interesting personal opinion.
 
Into the Night said:
No, it doesn't. The Supreme Court does not have the authority to change or interpret the Constitution of the United States. It MUST operate UNDER the Constitution. It has no authority OVER it.

The 14th amendment does not incorporate any other part of the constitution, or any other amendment.

No, I am pointing out the limits of the Federal government under the limits of the Constitution of the United States.

There is only one valid one. The Constitution of the United States.

Define 'reality'.

I already have.
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You keep arguing the same points without evidence. I’ve provided specific references that prove your assertions wrong. You have not.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
No legal basis. Wish and want.
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logic-=if a state government says certain weapons are needed by their civilian employees for self defense against criminals in a civilian environment, how can that same state government say such weapons have NO LEGITIMATE use in the hands of other honest civilians in ANY circumstance?
 
RaleBulgarian said:
You keep arguing the same points without evidence. I’ve provided specific references that prove your assertions wrong. You have not.
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no you haven't
 
VanceMack said:
:lamo

No...there isnt a gun show loophole. That is a stupid argument sold to stupid people by anti-gun politicians. You can no sooner buy a gun froma dealer at a gun show than their store, just as you could not buy a gun from a private seller any easier than you could from their house, or a police parking lot, which is where I typically sell the firearms I sell when I sell them.

And...

'illegally'...

:lamo

Right. Because making something illegal has always prevented people from being able to get illegal substances.
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Have you ever actually been to a gun show? I take my guns and trade them like baseball cards.

Most vendors have a guy with a personal collection for sale that matches their inventory. And there are no restrictions on personal sales.

So have you ever actually been to one? Or are you trying to pretend like Americans don't take advantage of exceptions to the rules whenever and wherever possible.

All it takes is one honest person that goes to these events to **** up your whole narrative.

Next you'll tell me that you can't supply an entire militia with fire arms just by asking around on the cb radio in any rural area.
 
ThoughtEx. said:
Have you ever actually been to a gun show? I take my guns and trade them like baseball cards.

Most vendors have a guy with a personal collection for sale that matches their inventory. And there are no restrictions on personal sales.

So have you ever actually been to one? Or are you trying to pretend like Americans don't take advantage of exceptions to the rules whenever and wherever possible.

All it takes is one honest person that goes to these events to **** up your whole narrative.

Next you'll tell me that you can't supply an entire militia with fire arms just by asking around on the cb radio in any rural area.
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Of course I have been to MANY gun shows. And the laws are no different at a gun show than they are anywhere else. If you dont know that you dont have a clue what you are talking about. If you are a gun dealer and you are selling guns at a gun show, you follow the laws and you would be stupid to not. If you are a private seller you can sell your guns at a gun show just as you would at your house, a yard sale, or anywhere else the law allows. There IS no exception to the rule. There is only the rule.

Correct?
 
ThoughtEx. said:
Have you ever actually been to a gun show? I take my guns and trade them like baseball cards.

Most vendors have a guy with a personal collection for sale that matches their inventory. And there are no restrictions on personal sales.

So have you ever actually been to one? Or are you trying to pretend like Americans don't take advantage of exceptions to the rules whenever and wherever possible.

All it takes is one honest person that goes to these events to **** up your whole narrative.

Next you'll tell me that you can't supply an entire militia with fire arms just by asking around on the cb radio in any rural area.
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I've been to hundreds-years ago I'd work the tables of a firearms dealer that was a client of mine. What you are talking about is not consistent what I have seen over the 34 years I have been attending gun shows.
 
TurtleDude said:
logic-=if a state government says certain weapons are needed by their civilian employees for self defense against criminals in a civilian environment, how can that same state government say such weapons have NO LEGITIMATE use in the hands of other honest civilians in ANY circumstance?
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Fact is, that is exactly what states and the Federal government do. What’s good for cops is good for civilians is not logical. Using your “logic” civilians should be able to install colored flashing light bars on their cars and chase down speeders.

Police are trained law enforcement specialists who receive training in the proper use (practical and legal) of all the tools of their job. The average civilian weekend plinker does not know when/how to handle a high stress, potentially deadly environment. Put a high powered, rapid fire weapon in their hands and there’s a strong likelihood that the bad guy isn’t the only one who gets shot.
 
VanceMack said:
Of course I have been to MANY gun shows. And the laws are no different at a gun show than they are anywhere else. If you dont know that you dont have a clue what you are talking about. If you are a gun dealer and you are selling guns at a gun show, you follow the laws and you would be stupid to not. If you are a private seller you can sell your guns at a gun show just as you would at your house, a yard sale, or anywhere else the law allows. There IS no exception to the rule. There is only the rule.

Correct?
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The rule is the exception. That's the point. All those gun dealers usually have a guy that will sell to you privately. Who just so happens to have an eerily similar inventory to whats on the table.

I've never once had to do anything at a gun show I've had to do in a brick and mortar store. Not once.

So, there is your narrative and then there is real life. That's what I know.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
Fact is, that is exactly what states and the Federal government do. What’s good for cops is good for civilians is not logical. Using your “logic” civilians should be able to install colored flashing light bars on their cars and chase down speeders.

Police are trained law enforcement specialists who receive training in the proper use (practical and legal) of all the tools of their job. The average civilian weekend plinker does not know when/how to handle a high stress, potentially deadly environment. Put a high powered, rapid fire weapon in their hands and there’s a strong likelihood that the bad guy isn’t the only one who gets shot.
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that's stupid-cops have a duty to pull over speeders, rush to crime scenes or accident scenes. Private civilians don't. Cops have guns for self defense against violent criminals. So do other civilians. why do you want to handicap honest civilians with inferior weapons? You are lying about the use of guns too

COPS ARE MORE LIKELY TO SHOOT THE WRONG PERSON and MISS the BAD GUY IN A GUN FIGHT than PRIVATE CITIZENS ARE.
 
TurtleDude said:
I've been to hundreds-years ago I'd work the tables of a firearms dealer that was a client of mine. What you are talking about is not consistent what I have seen over the 34 years I have been attending gun shows.
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hmm, ok so you are saying you're client didn't break any laws while he had his lawyer working the table with him... Duh... I'll repeat that. Duh... And here's the thing, private sales at gun shows not illegal. So you saying you haven't witnessed a circumvention of law at one is pretty beside the point.

When the point is it's completely legal for a gun dealer to say, hey, you're a good guy how bout we avoid the tax on this one and I'll sell you the same model from my private collection. Happens to me all the time.

Pedal your bull**** elsewhere.
 
ThoughtEx. said:
hmm, ok so you are saying you're client didn't break any laws while he had his lawyer working the table with him... Duh... I'll repeat that. Duh... And here's the thing, private sales at gun shows not illegal. So you saying you haven't witnessed a circumvention of law at one is pretty beside the point.

When the point is it's completely legal for a gun dealer to say, hey, you're a good guy how bout we avoid the tax on this one and I'll sell you the same model from my private collection. Happens to me all the time.

Pedal your bull**** elsewhere.
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you are lying. I go to gun shows all the time-I see dozens of cops at them-some in uniform, most are not. I see ATF, FBI, DEA, and USMS guys there. Many of them are gun owners. Some are working, many are not. You sell a gun off the books as an FFL-you can lose your license-or worse. What law prevented me-a licensed attorney associated with a big league law firm-from working as unpaid clerk for a gun dealer on my free time? Why did I do it-because it was a great way to get good deals on used guns.
 
TurtleDude said:
you are lying. I go to gun shows all the time-I see dozens of cops at them-some in uniform, most are not. I see ATF, FBI, DEA, and USMS guys there. Many of them are gun owners. Some are working, many are not. You sell a gun off the books as an FFL-you can lose your license-or worse. What law prevented me-a licensed attorney associated with a big league law firm-from working as unpaid clerk for a gun dealer on my free time? Why did I do it-because it was a great way to get good deals on used guns.
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Nothing you said here has rebutted my statements.

Cops go to gun shows. So what? Never claimed you did anything illegal. In fact Mr. Big Shot Lawyer, the context of my words implied while you were there they wouldn't do anything illegal. So, you failed on that one hoss.

Yeah, if you sell a gun off the books. But it's completely legal to sell yourself a gun at zero markup, and then sell that gun to anyone in a private sale. That's the loophole that makes it legal. Meaning all those cops that go to the gun show, are probably using it as well.

Hmm. It's almost like I'm saying no law is being broken. And yet you keeping insinuating that I am claiming laws are being broken.

The premise of the complaint against the gunshow loophole is that, a criminal can go to a gunshow, and purchase a gun without anyone knowing he is not legally allowed to own a firearm.

Now this complaint is against the gunshow and how it makes guns available to a criminal via the law concerning private sales.

You might say, he can go to a person house and buy a gun using the same law. But you see the persons house, isn't going to be filled full of thousands of people coming to swap and trade and sell guns.

I for one, think felons shouldn't lose the right to own a fire arm. And think the whole gunshow loophole thing is moot because of that.

I merely hate it when NRA supporters are trying to make something seem like it's not what it is.
 
ThoughtEx. said:
The rule is the exception. That's the point. All those gun dealers usually have a guy that will sell to you privately. Who just so happens to have an eerily similar inventory to whats on the table.

I've never once had to do anything at a gun show I've had to do in a brick and mortar store. Not once.

So, there is your narrative and then there is real life. That's what I know.
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Bull****. There IS no exception. If you are a private seller you can sell your guns privately anywhere it is legal. If you are a dealer, you MUST follow federal law and would be stupid to not.

You regurgitate the ridiculous Bloomberg lies about 'gunshow loopholes' and then want to talk about 'real life'.

Straight fact...if you are a private seller in a state that allows private sales, can you sell your guns ANYWHERE...including your home, a park, a yard sale, out of the trunk of your car, in the police station parking lot, and yes, even at a gun show? Yes or no?
 
ThoughtEx. said:
Nothing you said here has rebutted my statements.

Cops go to gun shows. So what? Never claimed you did anything illegal. In fact Mr. Big Shot Lawyer, the context of my words implied while you were there they wouldn't do anything illegal. So, you failed on that one hoss.

Yeah, if you sell a gun off the books. But it's completely legal to sell yourself a gun at zero markup, and then sell that gun to anyone in a private sale. That's the loophole that makes it legal. Meaning all those cops that go to the gun show, are probably using it as well.
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If that firearm has been owned for less than a year, the FFL is required to re-enter it into the FFL books and sell it through a background check.

https://www.ffl123.com/ffl-dealer-personal-gun-purchase/

Hmm. It's almost like I'm saying no law is being broken. And yet you keeping insinuating that I am claiming laws are being broken.

The premise of the complaint against the gunshow loophole is that, a criminal can go to a gunshow, and purchase a gun without anyone knowing he is not legally allowed to own a firearm.

Now this complaint is against the gunshow and how it makes guns available to a criminal via the law concerning private sales.

You might say, he can go to a person house and buy a gun using the same law. But you see the persons house, isn't going to be filled full of thousands of people coming to swap and trade and sell guns.

I for one, think felons shouldn't lose the right to own a fire arm. And think the whole gunshow loophole thing is moot because of that.

I merely hate it when NRA supporters are trying to make something seem like it's not what it is.
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There is no gun show loophole. The Brady Act works exactly as the Democrats who wrote the law, the Democrats who passed the law and the Democrat who signed the bill into law intended it to work.
 
VanceMack said:
Bull****. There IS no exception. If you are a private seller you can sell your guns privately anywhere it is legal. If you are a dealer, you MUST follow federal law and would be stupid to not.

You regurgitate the ridiculous Bloomberg lies about 'gunshow loopholes' and then want to talk about 'real life'.

Straight fact...if you are a private seller in a state that allows private sales, can you sell your guns ANYWHERE...including your home, a park, a yard sale, out of the trunk of your car, in the police station parking lot, and yes, even at a gun show? Yes or no?
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So you are saying that a criminal can go to a gun show and find thousands of people that can sell them weapons without any legal requirement to verify he is able to own or not a gun? At a gun show, on the premises of a gun show.

But because the dealers are still required to follow very lax rules with no oversight whatsoever, that it's not a loophole. It's not a loophole that a criminal can go to a physical location that has a great deal more guns and selection than an average gun store and purchase as many weapons as they want without so much as showing an id.

Because a couple of the tables, will perform a background check if you try to buy from them. Right before they have their brother offer you the same gun from his own private stock.

Not a loophole.

That's the story you're going with.

Man, I think that felons should be able to own fire arms. And there shouldn't be background checks at all. And I'm telling you, only an idiot would buy what you are selling.
 
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