Sane people's nervousness over the relaxed CDC guidelines is understandable.

[snakestretcher]

One man's thorough analysis of 80 studies.

A week ago, I also posted a link to a meta-study that compiled the results of over 30 studies. The results were the same.

I welcome a link any kind of meta-study of comparable breadth that shows different results.


He does nothing of the sort. More than a third of the studies he cites cover regions in southeast Asia. They simply don't report what you think they do.


It's not true that most Asian nations were subject to "strict lockdown and mask-wearing directives" relative to what was implemented in North America and Europe. Hence your premise is flawed ab initio.

Futhermore, the Asian nations that implemented stricter lockdown policies fared no better than those that implemented almost no strictures at all, which is one of many facts laid bare by the metaanalysis.

Abject nonsense. Southeast Asia's successes were entirely due to the lockdown procedures they endured. Furthermore they were prepared, having recently been through a deadly MERS outbreak.

Reasons for Asia-Pacific Success in suppressing COVID-19

The World Happiness Report is published by the Wellbeing Research Centre at the University of Oxford, in partnership with Gallup, the UN Sustainable Development Solutions Network and an independent editorial board.

worldhappiness.report

How these 3 Asian countries have kept a lid on COVID-19 outbreaks

Vietnam, Mongolia and Taiwan have successfully clamped down on COVID-19 outbreaks and kept deaths low—though a new outbreak in Thailand shows how quickly things can change.

fortune.com

What’s Behind Mainland Southeast Asia’s Surprising Success Against COVID-19

With the exception of Thailand, the five countries of mainland Southeast Asia are some of the poorest in the Asia-Pacific region. According to the World Bank, Cambodia has a per capita GDP of around $1,600, while Myanmar’s is roughly $1,400. Laos and Vietnam fare only marginally better, each at...

www.worldpoliticsreview.com

 

[COTO]

Abject nonsense. Southeast Asia's successes were entirely due to the lockdown procedures they endured. Furthermore they were prepared, having recently been through a deadly MERS outbreak.

Ipse dixit.

Show me some research based on empirical data to back this up. I'd love to see it.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Attacking the news platform rather than the research they're reporting on (which is neither funded by nor affiliated with the Epoch Times, incidentally) is pure intellectual laziness, sir.

nope, citing a known biased and fake "media" outlet is intellectual laziness, because it a story has wheels other sources would carry it as well, but the likes of epoch times is notorious for spinning a story to fit a narrative.

there is a reason it has been discredited, just like I would discredit far left publications like mother jones, and why I prefer NPR, Reuters, Christian Science, BBC - and a whole host of other outlets that have earned great respect.

spouting Epoch Times means you are playing to a very narrow and focused audience, no reasonable mind would lower themselves to follow such rags, in a way it is like comparing a science publication to a conspiracy theory publication. I have my self-respect to consider.

 

[snakestretcher]

Ipse dixit.

Show me some research based on empirical data to back this up. I'd love to see it.

Why, you'll only dismiss it. But what the hell...

COVID-19 and ASEAN responses: Comparative policy analysis - PMC

Scholars and policy-makers agree that cross-border and multi-sector cooperation are essential components of coordinated efforts to contain the spread of COVID-19 infections. This paper examines the responses of ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It's a large document, so take your time.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Why, you'll only dismiss it. But what the hell...

COVID-19 and ASEAN responses: Comparative policy analysis - PMC

Scholars and policy-makers agree that cross-border and multi-sector cooperation are essential components of coordinated efforts to contain the spread of COVID-19 infections. This paper examines the responses of ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Not to worry, a rebuttal courtesy of the Epoch Times will be coming your way soon

 

[woodsman]

complaining of a cartoon as conveying personal insults and then calling someone a jerk

OH THE IRONY.

I didn't categorize post themes as personal insults, what is insulting is just because you have a different view on vaccines you are then labeled as uncaring about 500,000 deaths. It does show the level of intellect we see in some posts. As for themes, they are just evidence with the lack of debate skills.

 

[Luce]

just because you have a different view on vaccines you are then labeled as uncaring about 500,000 deaths.

Yes.

 

[COTO]

nope, citing a known biased and fake "media" outlet is intellectual laziness, because it a story has wheels other sources would carry it as well

Dozens, possibly hundreds, of other sources are carrying the story.

why I prefer NPR, Reuters, Christian Science, BBC - and a whole host of other outlets that have earned great respect.

Your preferences are irrelevant. The legitimacy of the study is by no means determined by the biases, real or perceived, of the blogs and news organizations that choose to report on it. To dismiss a study on this basis is the quintessence of intellectual laziness.

If you want to persuade me--or anyone--to dismiss the results of the study, you'll have to address the contents of the study. You're wasting everyone's time otherwise, including your own.

 

[COTO]

Why, you'll only dismiss it. But what the hell...

COVID-19 and ASEAN responses: Comparative policy analysis - PMC

Scholars and policy-makers agree that cross-border and multi-sector cooperation are essential components of coordinated efforts to contain the spread of COVID-19 infections. This paper examines the responses of ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It's a large document, so take your time.

I'll read the document this evening, but at a glance: the abstract clearly indicates the study is talking about cooperation between Asian governments, not strictness of lockdown policies.

I get the feeling I'm going to read my way through this thing and discover that indeed you haven't actually read it and indeed it has nothing to do with the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of lockdown policies. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and digest it after work.

 

[woodsman]

nope, citing a known biased and fake "media" outlet is intellectual laziness, because it a story has wheels other sources would carry it as well, but the likes of epoch times is notorious for spinning a story to fit a narrative.

there is a reason it has been discredited, just like I would discredit far left publications like mother jones, and why I prefer NPR, Reuters, Christian Science, BBC - and a whole host of other outlets that have earned great respect.

spouting Epoch Times means you are playing to a very narrow and focused audience, no reasonable mind would lower themselves to follow such rags, in a way it is like comparing a science publication to a conspiracy theory publication. I have my self-respect to consider.

Interesting media list, on most days I have ether NPR or the BBC on my radio at home playing all day in the background. To even remotely suggest that those platforms aren’t left leaning is just ridiculous as is suggesting the US. MSM is unbiased. But it’s irrelevant to what COTO is trying to point out with the multiple studies he’s sighting.

There is also the reality that from the start of this mess the disinformation has been on full display. We were told at first by the WHO and Dr Fauci that this virus wasn’t airborne. It’s now coming to light that Fauci knew from the start that it was because he authorized the grants/funds for “gain of function” research at the Wuhan lab via his friend and colleague that runs EcoHealth alliance. Just a few days ago Fauci tried to weasel out with word games about the “gain of function” research he approved at a congressional hearing with the Clinton tactic of it depends what the meaning of is, is.

I bring the above to light not to derail this thread but to show the naiveté of those parroting the spoon feed narrative that is all encompassing with lockdowns, masks and vaccines.

 

[noonereal]

I say cognitive dissonance because the CDC's new regulations are clearly difficult for you to digest. They exposed that the mask guidelines have always been a political process and not a scientific one. Deep down, you knew that, of course, but your preferred narrative -- and the position of social superiority it implied -- wouldn't allow you to acknowledge it.

Now, you're forced to come to terms with that self-delusion, which is why you start off by asking those you've been openly mocking not to shame you. You know you're exposed and vulnerable, so you ask for mercy and humility. But you've shown none and continue to show none.

People have been pulling this quote out lately. It applies:

It is sad to read a post of such slop from a fellow countryman.

 

[woodsman]

You did not address my points.

I’m still waiting for you to outline what the last Admin did to make you believe you are traumatized. After all it was the core point in the OP.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

584,487. That is how many Americans we have lost to COVID-19. At least 40% of those deaths were easily preventable,

I agree. In my state our democratic leaders refused to protect our most vulnerable and even ordered infected patients back to overcrowded nursing homes where social distancing was not possible. It is sad Trump left these decisions up to the states. Well at least the left run states where they failed our most vulnerable.

 

[Eriech]

584,487. That is how many Americans we have lost to COVID-19. At least 40% of those deaths were easily preventable, but the pandemic struck us when we had a flagrantly anti-science, anti-truth president, and a loud minority of citizens who were willing to literally jump off a cliff for him if so ordered. We've had to deal with this level of toxic selfishness for over a year now, and we have every right to be sick and tired of it.

Those who had to continue to work in person during lockdown had to hope that today wasn't the day that they got this life-threatening disease. For a hot minute, we as a country decided to do what we needed to do to stay safe, even if it was hard. But then, the selfishness, hubris, and freedumb fetish kicked back in. A loud minority of Americans proved that they were not "pro-life" despite their howling to the contrary.

Here's the thing about trauma: It doesn't end when the source of abuse ends. Just because trump is no longer president doesn't mean that we don't continue to have bad memories of him. Just because some of us are vaccinated doesn't mean we don't remember what it's like to have to navigate the minefield of covidiots.

So it's perfectly normal when sane people are nervous over the new, relaxed CDC guidelines on COVID-19. It's perfectly normal to keep an eye on the horrible situation in India and recognize that a virulent mutation could cause a problem here. Your freedumb fetish does not make trauma disappear. In fact it makes us distrust you even more.


Turn off the f'n TV and live finally.

 

[woodsman]

It is sad to read a post of such slop from a fellow countryman.

The truth often sends those programed and the naive into deflection and projection mode, it’s expected.

 

[MaryP]

Great news!!! The Governor agreed with me and as of next Monday, fully vaccinated people in Maine are not required to wear masks indoors!!! She is also FINALLY dropping the social distancing rules in restaurants so my local eateries can reopen all their booths and tables. Hopefully, the laundromat will put the chairs back out, too.

I still have to wait 30 more days for my 2nd shot and 2 wk wait, but the light at the end of the tunnel is here. God, I'm happy.

 

[MaryP]

Who are you talking about? The CDC says you don't need masks. My governor says you don't need masks. You are free to be afraid and angry, but kindly keep your fear and anger to yourself. The rest of us have stuff to do. Thanks.

The CDC says you don't need masks IF YOU ARE FULLY VACCINATED. There's a difference there.

 

[Phys251]

The truth often sends those programed and the naive into deflection and projection mode, it’s expected.

See my sig #2.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Interesting media list, on most days I have ether NPR or the BBC on my radio at home playing all day in the background. To even remotely suggest that those platforms aren’t left leaning is just ridiculous as is suggesting the US. MSM is unbiased. But it’s irrelevant to what COTO is trying to point out with the multiple studies he’s sighting.

There is also the reality that from the start of this mess the disinformation has been on full display. We were told at first by the WHO and Dr Fauci that this virus wasn’t airborne. It’s now coming to light that Fauci knew from the start that it was because he authorized the grants/funds for “gain of function” research at the Wuhan lab via his friend and colleague that runs EcoHealth alliance. Just a few days ago Fauci tried to weasel out with word games about the “gain of function” research he approved at a congressional hearing with the Clinton tactic of it depends what the meaning of is, is.

I bring the above to light not to derail this thread but to show the naiveté of those parroting the spoon feed narrative that is all encompassing with lockdowns, masks and vaccines.

Information evolves as knowledge increases, again, I did say "if a story has wheels other sources would carry it as well, but the likes of epoch times is notorious for spinning a story to fit a narrative."

There could be some real data and information incorporated in an climate change denial publication, would I therefore take it seriously? NOPE. Same why I don't watch Fox news even if some of their stories carry an ounce of truth because I know going in what their spin is.

Of course bias is going to exist in ALL media outlets, and you will notice too that rightwing rags tend to ONLY publish stories that make the Right look good and the Left look bad, same as far left rags do the opposite.

BY default I go with:


I should also note that being Canadian most of our media outlets are dull, detailed, lack emotion, are not prone to hyperbole. Like CBC. Yes we have a few partisan outlets as well, and for the same reasons stated here, I don't bother with them.

People can read what they want to read, I am not a cancel culture fanatic, but as stated previously, I have my self respect to think about.

 

[Phys251]

I agree. In my state our democratic leaders refused to protect our most vulnerable and even ordered infected patients back to overcrowded nursing homes where social distancing was not possible. It is sad Trump left these decisions up to the states. Well at least the left run states where they failed our most vulnerable.

America has 5% of the world's population and roughly a quarter of its COVID-19 casualties. See my sig #1.

 

[Phys251]

Information evolves as knowledge increases, again, I did say "if a story has wheels other sources would carry it as well, but the likes of epoch times is notorious for spinning a story to fit a narrative."

There could be some real data and information incorporated in an climate change denial publication, would I therefore take it seriously? NOPE. Same why I don't watch Fox news even if some of their stories carry an ounce of truth because I know going in what their spin is.

Of course bias is going to exist in ALL media outlets, and you will notice too that rightwing rags tend to ONLY publish stories that make the Right look good and the Left look bad, same as far left rags do the opposite.

BY default I go with:
View attachment 67333716
I should also note that being Canadian most of our media outlets are dull, detailed, lack emotion, are not prone to hyperbole. Like CBC. Yes we have a few partisan outlets as well, and for the same reasons stated here, I don't bother with them.

People can read what they want to read, I am not a cancel culture fanatic, but as stated previously, I have my self respect to think about.

That is a strange chart. WSJ in the middle? NPR two slots right of CNN?

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

That is a strange chart. WSJ in the middle? NPR two slots right of CNN?

NPR NEWS is in the middle, they lean left on opinion, and yes, there are a couple of outlets that I disagree with their placement, but I also said as "a default", so on occasion I will look at left leaning and even right leaning outlets, but NEVER something like Drudge, Epoch, Breitbart, American Thinker (has is THAT for a misnomer?)

That is a strange chart. WSJ in the middle? NPR two slots right of CNN?

 

[Phys251]

NPR NEWS is in the middle, they lean left on opinion, and yes, there are a couple of outlets that I disagree with their placement, but I also said as "a default", so on occasion I will look at left leaning and even right leaning outlets, but NEVER something like Drudge, Epoch, Breitbart, American Thinker (has is THAT for a misnomer?)

It's the position of CNN that makes no sense, howling from the righties be damned. No way they should be in the same column as Jacobin.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

It's the position of CNN that makes no sense, howling from the righties be damned. No way they should be in the same column as Jacobin.

50-50 in my opinion.
Some nights they can't leave the bashing of Republicans alone, no matter how "in the middle" they try to sound, and give you an example:
That one time Trump walked down a ramp awkwardly, CNN carried that round the clock for TWO friggin' days! REALLY? Yet we liberals moan when Fox did the same to Biden the one time he stumbled up a set of stairs.

Other nights they are belong in left-leaning, not "left" but again, as stated, my default position is to trust that ranking chart, as well as my own judgement.
POTUS radio for example is not on there, you find it on XM radio, and they definitely have a bit of a left tilt but not as sharp as CNN and very good programming - and of course the chart doesn't include Canadian sources - simply the best in the world

 

[Phys251]

50-50 in my opinion.
Some nights they can't leave the bashing of Republicans alone, no matter how "in the middle" they try to sound, and give you an example:
That one time Trump walked down a ramp awkwardly, CNN carried that round the clock for TWO friggin' days! REALLY? Yet we liberals moan when Fox did the same to Biden the one time he stumbled up a set of stairs.

CNN's problem isn't their lean but their sensationalism. They sure have become a lighting rod for right-wing extremists, however.

Other nights they are belong in left-leaning, not "left" but again, as stated, my default position is to trust that ranking chart, as well as my own judgement.
POTUS radio for example is not on there, you find it on XM radio, and they definitely have a bit of a left tilt but not as sharp as CNN and very good programming - and of course the chart doesn't include Canadian sources - simply the best in the world

I wish we had less sensationalist news. The few sources that don't, such as NPR, tend to be bothsider-ist.