S.Korea and China agree to hold regular defense strategy talks

[ludahai]

South Korea only became democratic in the late 80s around the same time as Taiwan, cultural values do not change that quickly, but take at least 2-3 generations to become entrenched within the population and power elite as a whole. None of the East Asian countries including Japan have liberal democracy as an entrenched cultural value. Nor are human rights as opposed to social stability an entrenched value.

Taiwan became a democracy in 1996. Democratic values and human rights are pretty well entrenched here -- and on the whole, Taiwan generally gets better marks than Korea on most measures of political rights and freedoms. Any talk of losing the hard won rights Taiwanese enjoy today is a non-starter.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Taiwan became a democracy in 1996. Democratic values and human rights are pretty well entrenched here -- and on the whole, Taiwan generally gets better marks than Korea on most measures of political rights and freedoms. Any talk of losing the hard won rights Taiwanese enjoy today is a non-starter.

my point being democracy in Taiwan could easily go the route of democracy in many Latin American countriies or Thailand. It is not an entrenched value among the elite yet.

 

[ludahai]

my point being democracy in Taiwan could easily go the route of democracy in many Latin American countriies or Thailand. It is not an entrenched value among the elite yet.

Certainly not like Thailand, which has a long history of the military intervening unilateraly. Taiwan's military has no taste for that. Latin America? Doubt it. While there are members of the KMT who may not be crazy about actually have to be competing for votes, they are not about to end democracy here. You obviously don't know what has happened in Taiwan. While I have no love for the KMT, I don't see them getting ready to revoke democracy in Taiwan, either... and of course, the elites in the DPP are strong supporters of democracy.

 

[LaughAtTheWorld]

my point being democracy in Taiwan could easily go the route of democracy in many Latin American countriies or Thailand. It is not an entrenched value among the elite yet.

I disagree with this one, LT. Thai politics are heavily influenced by the military, and is far from democratic. Latin American countries nowadays are moving at a rapid pace towards democracy as Colombia, Brazil, and many other countries show. Of course, there's still some undemocratic countries notably Venezuela and Argentina, but the progress is remarkable.
Taiwan's politics may be very competitive and a bit young, but it's no less unstable than the US, SK, or many other democratic countries

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

I disagree with this one, LT. Thai politics are heavily influenced by the military, and is far from democratic. Latin American countries nowadays are moving at a rapid pace towards democracy as Colombia, Brazil, and many other countries show. Of course, there's still some undemocratic countries notably Venezuela and Argentina, but the progress is remarkable.
Taiwan's politics may be very competitive and a bit young, but it's no




less unstable than the US, SK, or many other democratic countries

Argentina is as much a democracy as Brazil, and far more of one then Columbia. Columbia still has death squads in operation, Brazil and Argentina do not. Argentina has had fair and democratic elections.


Regarding south Korea and Taiwan, they are democratic now no question, but Korea is still quite authoritarian in nature and in a crisis could see wide support for autocratic actions. Taiwans culture to my understanding does not support authoritarianism, but some of the elites would and given its young history as a democracy could see it go away. I am not saying it will occur, just that democracy is not a fully entrenched ideal yet.

 

[jfuh]

Well just as your proud to be a South Korean. And I would hope your in your home land reading this.

I am a Proud Anglo American. Hopeing our new President (Perry or Palin) and new DC politics will stop all aid, and financial supporting of foriegn countries around the globe. Penalize with severe huge fines all, and any American business that go overseas.
And tell China, Japan, Taiwan and other oriental countries to keep their own junk. Wait in line and suck air.

WTF? Wow, in just a few lines you have just demonstrated how alive and well racism exists. It's racists bitches like you who've I've had to deal with all too often.
China, Japan, Taiwan to keep their own junk? I'm sorry but did someone force you to buy their stuff at gun point?
You're not racists? Most racists never think they are racists because they see other races as lesser beings.

 

[jfuh]

Allow me to get this back to the topic.

China and S.Korea....I personaly, don't trust either of those sneaky back-stabber countries.
Yesterday - Today or Tomarrow.

It's spelled tomorrow, ever heard of spell check?
How embarrassing it must be for you that an Asian is correcting your spelling.

 

[jfuh]

the elites in the DPP are strong supporters of democracy.

Only when they benefit from it financially.

 

[jfuh]

Regarding south Korea and Taiwan, they are democratic now no question, but Korea is still quite authoritarian in nature and in a crisis could see wide support for autocratic actions. Taiwans culture to my understanding does not support authoritarianism, but some of the elites would and given its young history as a democracy could see it go away. I am not saying it will occur, just that democracy is not a fully entrenched ideal yet.

You're partially correct about S. Korea, but that's understandable given that their neighbor could very realistically spark a full on conflict - but that in no way confers that democratic ideals of personal rights and freedoms have not been fully entrenched. It's simply a different cultural attitude (Confucian) than that held by westerners.

On Taiwan, it will never become authoritarian, but you are correct that democracy is not fully entrenched. The mentality of "connections" is strongly entrenched in Chinese culture, and so many are elected not based on their political resolve but rather of who they are in relation to their electorate. Hence why there is such a stupid play on whether or not someone is "Taiwanese" enough according to one political demographic.
Fortunately such silly sentiments are quickly dying off as the general populace has mixed so much that the silly nonsense of who migrated here first is no longer of any consequence - especially with the younger generation.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

You're partially correct about S. Korea, but that's understandable given that their neighbor could very realistically spark a full on conflict - but that in no way confers that democratic ideals of personal rights and freedoms have not been fully entrenched. It's simply a different cultural attitude (Confucian) than that held by westerners.

On Taiwan, it will never become authoritarian, but you are correct that democracy is not fully entrenched. The mentality of "connections" is strongly entrenched in Chinese culture, and so many are elected not based on their political resolve but rather of who they are in relation to their electorate. Hence why there is such a stupid play on whether or not someone is "Taiwanese" enough according to one political demographic.
Fortunately such silly sentiments are quickly dying off as the general populace has mixed so much that the silly nonsense of who migrated here first is no longer of any consequence - especially with the younger generation.

Re Korea

I also probably got the wrong impression from some of the more militant protests and strikes that have occurred along with some of the occasional harsh crackdowns on them.

 

[LaughAtTheWorld]

Argentina is as much a democracy as Brazil, and far more of one then Columbia. Columbia still has death squads in operation, Brazil and Argentina do not. Argentina has had fair and democratic elections.


Regarding south Korea and Taiwan, they are democratic now no question, but Korea is still quite authoritarian in nature and in a crisis could see wide support for autocratic actions. Taiwans culture to my understanding does not support authoritarianism, but some of the elites would and given its young history as a democracy could see it go away. I am not saying it will occur, just that democracy is not a fully entrenched ideal yet.

Argentina had that couple combo whose name I forgot that kept changing the presidency from wife to husband, so it was hardly democratic. However, due to the husband's sudden, unexpected death, that might change soon and it might become a true democracy.
As for your comment on SK, I sadly admits it's right. South Korea has always been a like a fascist country. Authoritarian, and right-wing economics. It was never communistic, due to the heavy anti-communist sentiments, but during the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s, it was very much a fascist country that was occasionally ruled by a military dictatorship (Park-Chung-Hee, Chun-Do-Had, and Noh-Tae-Woo).
However, there is a changing trend in South Korean governence. Today's government is far more democratic than previous governments, and is classified as a "liberal democracy" by the CIA World Factbook

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Argentina had that couple combo whose name I forgot that kept changing the presidency from wife to husband, so it was hardly democratic. However, due to the husband's sudden, unexpected death, that might change soon and it might become a true democracy.
As for your comment on SK, I sadly admits it's right. South Korea has always been a like a fascist country. Authoritarian, and right-wing economics. It was never communistic, due to the heavy anti-communist sentiments, but during the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s, it was very much a fascist country that was occasionally ruled by a military dictatorship (Park-Chung-Hee, Chun-Do-Had, and Noh-Tae-Woo).
However, there is a changing trend in South Korean governence. Today's government is far more democratic than previous governments, and is classified as a "liberal democracy" by the CIA World Factbook

Actually in my opinion the Kirchners were rather good for Argentinian democracy

Néstor Carlos Kirchner (Spanish pronunciation: [ˈnestor ˈkarlos ˈkirʃner]; 25 February 1950 – 27 October 2010) was an Argentine politician who served as the 54th President of Argentina from 25 May 2003 until 10 December 2007. Previously, he was Governor of Santa Cruz Province since 10 December 1991.[2] He briefly served as Secretary General of the Union of South American Nations (UNASUR) and as a National Deputy of Argentina for Buenos Aires Province. Kirchner's four-year presidency was notable for presiding over a dramatic fall in poverty and unemployment, following the economic crisis of 2001.[3][4]

A Justicialist, Kirchner was little-known internationally and even domestically before his election to the Presidency, which he won by default with only 22.2 percent of the vote in the first round, when former President Carlos Menem (24.4%) withdrew from the ballotage. Soon after taking office in May 2003, Kirchner surprised the world by standing down powerful military and police officials. Stressing the need to increase accountability and transparency in government, Kirchner overturned amnesty laws for military officers accused of torture and assassinations during the 1976–1983 "dirty war" under military rule.[5]

Néstor Kirchner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Both were fairly elected to the position. Nestor took actions against the political elites who were more supportive of the dictatorships and removed the amnesty they had.

 

[LaughAtTheWorld]

Actually in my opinion the Kirchners were rather good for Argentinian democracy





Néstor Kirchner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Both were fairly elected to the position. Nestor took actions against the political elites who were more supportive of the dictatorships and removed the amnesty they had.

From my impression, they were corrupt and authoritarian.
I don't know, they might have displaced an oppressive system, but may have instituted one with their own oppressive system. It's like arguing the Bolsheviks did good by replacing the tsars

 

[jfuh]

Re Korea

I also probably got the wrong impression from some of the more militant protests and strikes that have occurred along with some of the occasional harsh crackdowns on them.

Like with all tabloid press these days, makes for better headlines.

 

[tcmartin10]

Yes like North Korea would win againt China, (or South Korea for that matter)

North Korea could inflict serious damage on South Korea but without the direct support of China it would lose. South Korea would eventually win assuming its productive capacity was not destroyed in the initial phases of the war

China given its manpower and technological advantage over NK would eventually roll over it. NKs population is too small, productive capacity too limited to have it win any war of atttrition

I assume North Korea's technology is far behind ours. And our military trains some of the South Korean ROCK Soldiers.

 

[LaughAtTheWorld]

I assume North Korea's technology is far behind ours. And our military trains some of the South Korean ROCK Soldiers.

Nope, the time when the US trained our military is long gone.
Considering that NK weaponry is mainly made up of WWII and Cold War-era weapons, yes NK technology is far behind SK and US technology.