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Russian Parliament Wants Ambassador Recalled


That would have been an improvement over what was said.

The older I get, the test for me on foreign involvement is a simple one: would I have gone and fought this war - or (if older) would I want my son or daughter to go fight this war - and now with a 12 year old grandson - I ask if I would want him to go and fight this war. My father joined the service in 1944 and spent large parts of two years in a German prison camp after being shot down over Eastern Europe. To this day he regrets not one day of his service and is happy he went to help save the word from fascism. I would hope I would have the courage to do the same thing and my kids and grandsons would do the same.

But aside from WW2 - I can think of no war in the last century that merits that personal test for me.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
do we know where the russian troops are heading? the border of crimea and ukraine? their millitary bases? do we know what purpose the troops are there for.
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If we don't, then things are worse than I thought.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
you think we should have destabilized iran? Even though the entire Middle east is already destabilized because of Iraq an syria, you want to add more chaos to the region.
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Don't mis-characterize what I said. What is said was:

...making more of an effort to destabilize Iran and bring about regime change in Iran
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I thought you liberals were all for HOPE AND CHANGE?
 
Sen. Corker walks back previous criticism of Obama.
Just now on CNN, Corker tried to act like the statesman he hasn't been lately.

At first he yapped about trade sanctions playing the GOP Syria card that the President doesn't know what he's doing.
Now Corker is forced to admit that the POTUS has stepped up his game.

'No Drama Obama' doctrine .
 
Ben K. said:
You didn't sign an agreement requiring intervention. You signed an agreement that makes it impossible for future non-proliferation treaties to be taken seriously if no action is taken.
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I don't disagree. Indeed, enforcement mechanisms have been a major sticking point in Israeli-Palestinian talks with Israel largely dismissive of U.S./European security guarantees. What happened in Lebanon following Israel's withdrawal has driven those concerns. In a broader context, the consequences of what followed Ukraine's abandoning its nuclear weapons adds another argument for caution when it comes to nuclear disarmament and non-proliferation. Right now, there really are no good answers to these issues and that absence of good solutions will adversely impact current and future diplomatic efforts.
 

I agree with you that Russia has violated the agreement. Had Ukraine moved against Russia's naval base, that would have been a different matter. The problem is that the agreement was silent as to what would happen if its terms were violated.

In terms of what can be done, there are no practical military solutions. Non-military measures can and most definitely should be reviewed for possible implementation. Future agreements need to avoid circumventing the tricky issue of enforcement mechanisms. Usually, language about security guarantees or other terms that fall short of actual credible enforcement machinery are utilized to assure an agreement is reached.
 

Good post, Dave. Something to think about.
 


Heya DS :2wave: ......what about the treaty Russia has with the Ukraine and agreements that go back to a very long long time ago. Do you think Putin and his Team knew about the control of Russian assets on Ukrainian soil?


Any Russian military movements in Crimea are in keeping with Moscow's existing arrangement with Ukraine on the deployment of military assets in the former Soviet republic, Russia's U.N. Ambassador Vitaly Churkin said on Friday.

"We are acting within the framework of that agreement," he told reporters after a closed-door meeting of the U.N. Security Council. He did not give any details or comment on specifics of any Russian military deployments on Ukrainian territory.....snip~

Russia says Crimea deployments based on agreements with Ukraine
 
DaveFagan said:
I see the paradigm and my view is that the USA is the aggresser in this matter.
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I, for one, am shock that Dave found a way to make the US the bad guy. Unexpected!
 
OldWorldOrder said:
I, for one, am shock that Dave found a way to make the US the bad guy. Unexpected!
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You're tuned to the "Mighty Wurlitzer" and I don't think they have informed you what to think yet. You know. Talking points. Everybody on the same page, written by????? Hang in there, Bubba, they'll let you know what to think pretty soon. Have a glass of milk and two cookies. Nothing to see here. Move on.
 

Good idea, Dave! If you've already started, I'll have a drink, too!
 


Here is how it played out Maggie .....Obama wants to try and play Economics. Problem is Putin can play to and then All gets taken down.



Ignoring President Barack Obama's warning Friday that "there will be costs" if Russia intervenes militarily, Putin sharply raised the stakes in the conflict over Ukraine's future evoking memories of Cold War brinkmanship.

After Russia's parliament approved Putin's motion, U.S. officials held a high-level meeting at the White House to review Russia's military moves in Ukraine. The White House said Obama spoke with Putin by telephone for 90 minutes and expressed his "deep concern" about "Russia's clear violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity."

The White House said Obama told Putin that the United States is calling on Russia "to de-escalate tensions by withdrawing its forces back to bases in Crimea and to refrain from any interference elsewhere in Ukraine."

A statement from the Kremlin said Putin emphasized to Obama the existence of "real threats" to the life and health of Russian citizens and compatriots who are in Ukrainian territory. The statement indicated that Russia might send its troops not only to the Crimea but also to predominantly ethnic Russian regions of eastern Ukraine.

"Vladimir Putin emphasized that, in the case of a further spread in violence in eastern regions (of Ukraine) and Crimea, Russia maintains the right to protect its interests and the Russian-speaking population that lives there," the Kremlin statement said.

Obama told Putin that he would support sending international monitors to Ukraine to help protect ethnic Russians. He said the U.S. will suspend its participation in preparatory meetings for June's G-8 summit in Sochi, Russia, the site of the recently concluded Winter Olympics, warning that Russia's "continued violation of international law will lead to greater political and economic isolation."

NATO announced a meeting for Sunday of the North Atlantic Council, the alliance's political decision-making body, as well as a meeting of the NATO-Ukraine Commission. NATO secretary general Anders Fogh Rasmussen said the allies will "coordinate closely" on the situation in Ukraine, which he termed "grave."

The U.N. Security Council met in an open, televised session for about a half hour on Saturday afternoon after closed-door consultations, despite initial objections from Russia to an open session. The council heard speeches from a U.N. deputy secretary-general and several ambassadors, but did not take any action.....snip~

Russian troops take over Ukraine's Crimea region - AP News 3/1/2014 7:35 PM
 
Will Putin go into the rest of the Ukraine, besides their Crimean base ?
 
NIMBY said:
Will Putin go into the rest of the Ukraine, besides their Crimean base ?
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Do you think Putin would bluff Obama after Rice , Kerry and Obama and Powers blow Hot Air?


Calling the situation in Ukraine "as dangerous as it is destabilizing," U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Samantha Power said, "It is time for the Russian military intervention in Ukraine to end." She warned that "Russia's provocative actions could easily push the situation beyond the breaking point." She asked that Russia directly engage the Ukraine government and called for international monitors to be sent to Ukraine to observe the situation.

"Russia and the West find themselves on the brink of a confrontation far worse than in 2008 over Georgia," Dmitri Trenin, the director of Carnegie Moscow Center, said in a commentary posted on its website. In Georgia, Russian troops quickly routed the Georgian military after they tried to regain control over the separatist province of South Ossetia that has close ties with Moscow.....snip~
 

Howdy Beau! I think that perhaps Obama's red line in Syria was his only mistake there, I mean stating it. But with both China and Russia denying a resolution for use of force in Syria, and the UK backing out, and 70% of Americans being against any action in Syria, Obama can't be blamed.
 

Hey there MMC, someone mentioned that Putin is withdrawing his ambassadors over comments Obama made?? Do you know what those comments were?
 
Montecresto said:
Hey there MMC, someone mentioned that Putin is withdrawing his ambassadors over comments Obama made?? Do you know what those comments were?
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Heya Monte. :2wave: I figured they were the ones from Post 114 unless someone can find something else......Sounds like Obama tried to put some bass in his voice. Then got called on it. So Obama came back with the only thing he could. Willing to send in monitors.

Which Putin knows that's a UN call. So he pulled his Ambassador after they allowed that open Security Council Session. IMO!

Both Powers and Rice have been played and made to look like fools. So the Russians aren't sweting them. Same deal with Kerry as Lavrov has him cowled.
 

Your saying Russia pulled their ambassador to the US?
 
Montecresto said:
Your saying Russia pulled their ambassador to the US?
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Well, more like confirming what Maggie already had on it from Fox.

Parliament has also requested that the Russian Ambassador be recalled from the United States in light of President Obama's remarks yesterday.....snip~


Although, despite what Samanatha Powers is saying this is what Team Obama told Barbara Starr of CNN Earlier.



UPDATE: Apparently the Obama administration isn't calling thousands of troops landing on the ground in Crimea and "invasion," but rather an "uncontested arrival."

Admin officials tell CNN's Barbara Starr this is an "uncontested arrival" not necessarily "an invasion" and that this distinction is "key.".....snip~

BREAKING: Obama on 2000 Russian Troops Landing in Ukraine "There Will Be Costs For Military Intervention" - Katie Pavlich
 
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NIMBY said:
Will Putin go into the rest of the Ukraine, besides their Crimean base ?
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Russia Ups the Ante in Crimea by Sending in the ‘Night Wolves’

On Friday afternoon, the regular flight from Moscow touched down in the Crimean capital of Simferopol, in the south of Ukraine, carrying the leader of a Russian motorcycle gang known as the Night Wolves. Alexander Zoldostanov, an old friend of Russian President Vladimir Putin, was wearing his usual get-up – a flaming wolf’s head stenciled onto his black leather vest – but for once he was not the most intimidating figure on the scene. Since the morning, dozens of masked troops had been sauntering around Crimea’s main airport, armed to the teeth but refusing to identify themselves. In some ways, they seemed to have the same goal as Zoldostanov, who goes by the nickname The Surgeon. They were sending a signal to the revolutionary government in Ukraine that there were no longer in charge on this peninsula.

The troops in green uniforms were in charge, whoever they were. By Friday evening, they had set up patrols around the Crimean capital. They put up checkpoints on the roads leading to the Russian military base, the home of the Black Sea Fleet, on the southeastern tip of the peninsula. Sometimes the troops seemed almost benign, sitting down at a cafe inside the airport and calmly looking around, their grenade launchers and automatic weapons by their side. At other times, as when they set up a cordon around the Crimean TV tower, they looked like an occupying force.

Because their uniforms and vehicles had no identifying markers of any kind, the troops patrolling the streets, highways and airports of the Crimea could at least plausibly have been part of local militia forces, which locals have been forming to defend against the revolution. That allowed Moscow to deny any knowledge as to which troops were part of the regular movements of the Black Sea Fleet and which ones weren’t. This meant that on Friday, the only identifiably Russian force descending on the Crimea were the Night Wolves.

Since 2009, they have been one of the defining elements of Russian soft power in Eastern Europe. Their biker rallies and mass rides through countries like Ukraine, Estonia, Serbia, Romania and Bosnia serve to promote Slavic pride and Russian patriotism in Moscow’s former Soviet dominions. President Putin has often joined them on these rides, although he usually plays it safe by choosing a three-wheeler.

In 2012, when he came to Ukraine on an official visit, he spent several hours riding around the Crimea with Zoldostanov and the Night Wolves while President Yanukovych was kept waiting for him in Kiev. (Since his ouster, Yanukovych has clearly not won him any more respect from the Russian President. At a press conference on Friday in the Russian city of Rostov, where he has fled to escape charges of mass murder in Ukraine, Yanukovych said that Putin has so far refused to meet with him. He expressed surprise that the Russian President was “remaining silent” on the crisis in Ukraine.).....snip~

Russia Ups the Ante in Crimea by Sending in the
 
soccerboy22 said:
Oh man. This is a very hot situation with only one right answer and about a hundred wrong ones. I am sure the White House is a very tense place right now.
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*Spoiler Alert*

Not really. Obama will draw a red line and Putin will do what he wants. Then Obama will declare victory.
 

I have no idea what the cold war was like. Were words enough to keep Russia from doing crazy ****? I guess I just don't know how close we can get to the border without crossing it with respect to actions and war.
 
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