Rule of law is ‘endangered,’ Chief Justice John Roberts says

[Hamish Howl]

No. But there are existing federal laws governing how federal elections will be conducted.
That is what these executive orders are about- directions from the Executive to his suppordinates on how those laws will be enforced.

Except they're not. Trump is adding to those laws, not enforcing them as written.

 

[multivita-man]

We're not too far away from the Executive branch telling the Judicial and Legislative branch that they can go **** themselves. Who's going to stop him?

 

[Lursa]

There is only so much the USA can do.
SCOTUS has no authority to order the president to engage in diplomatic activities with foreign countries.

I spelled things out pretty clearly in post 39. Why not respond there, directly. SCOTUS moved on to a 2nd order that clarified their position.

And it's complete BS now, especially since the White House 'theater' between Bukely and Teflon Don "wink wink."

 

[Athanasius68]

No, that has been superseded by a follow up order April 10th. Here's something pertinent from that ruling:

"On April 10, 2025, the Supreme Court issued its ruling on the Government’s request.9 In a unanimous decision authored by Chief Justice John Roberts, the Court affirmed the lawlessness of Mr. Abrego Garcia’s removal to a Salvadoran prison, observing that even “[t]he United States acknowledges that Abrego Garcia was subject to a withholding order forbidding his removal to El Salvador, and that the removal to El Salvador was therefore illegal.”10 The Court largely affirmed the underlying District Court order, maintaining its effect while also suggesting that Judge Paula Xinis’s directive that the Government “facilitate and effectuate the return of [Abrego Garcia] to the United States by no later than 11:59 PM on Monday, April 7, 2025”11 should be clarified.12 Specifically, the Court explained that the District Court should exercise “due regard for the deference owed to the Executive Branch in the conduct of foreign affairs.”13 The Court also instructed the Government defendants to “share what it can concerning the steps it has taken and the prospect of further steps.”14"​

​

When and where is this "clarification" happening? The administration is defying the court in doing this and SCOTUS even admits here it doesnt have the authority to actually enforce its ruling.

--and--

"Presumably this last instruction relates to what efforts the Government has mustered to return Mr. Abrego Garcia from his illegal confinement."​

When and where is this hearing scheduled? When is further documentation ordered to be handed over?

--and--

"But the Court’s vagueness here hints at its own solicitude for executive authority and preciousness toward not impeding on the presidency. The Court’s decision last term extending broad immunity to the American President for potentially criminal acts committed while in office15 and Congress’s acquiescence to the Trump Administration16 have effectively left the people of the United States responsible for their own defense against the government. " link​

Bukele stated clearly, in the WH, publicly that he couldnt 'smuggle a terrorist back into the US.' (It was a big joke between him and Teflon Don, obviously). But it was a statement.

So then Van Hollen met with Abrego Garcia in El Salvador outside the prison. Bukele facilitated this. What stopped Bukele from handing oer Abrego Garcia to Van Hollen? Obviously it would no longer have been him 'smuggling a terrorist into the US." It's obvious that Teflon Don deliberately did NOT facilitate or effectuate his return. All he had to do was tell Bukele to do so. We're paying them to house our criminals. El Salvado is not rounding up "it's own criminal citizens" in the US and taking them...they are providing us with a service.

So Teflon Don has had the opportunity and not complied. He's in contempt. If you disagree with this, please explain why.

And of course the rest of it supports what I wrote...that you avoided by pretending this second order didnt exist: even SCOTUS is recognizing it has no authority to enforce its rulings. As such...Teflon Don is starting to rule by decree. If not...explain. Do you think that he'll be held responsible to the courts for either fulfilling their order or contempt of court?

The deportation to El Salvador was for Venezualan nationals.
Mr. Abrego is not.
However, he is an illegal alien and is subject to deportation back to El Salvador.

And so he was. The President's argument is that he is not under the jurisdiction of the USA.

 

[Tangmo]

The deportation to El Salvador was for Venezualan nationals.
Mr. Abrego is not.
However, he is an illegal alien and is subject to deportation back to El Salvador.

And so he was. The President's argument is that he is not under the jurisdiction of the USA.

Which in translation means everyone is under the jurisdiction of the Generalissimo Trump.

USA jurisdiction is rapidly fading to black. Your post makes clear what we know already which is that Trump is the law and that everyone is under his jurisdiction solely and singularly and absolutely.

Roberts must know that after Trump&Miller finish arresting Democrats in the US House, mayors and governors they will turn their attention to arresting federal judges then darken the doorway of the Supreme Court itself. Roberts must hope Trump will be lenient with him for not criticizing Trump directly. Let's hope he isn't eh.

 

[Athanasius68]

Which in translation means everyone is under the jurisdiction of the Generalissimo Trump.

USA jurisdiction is rapidly fading to black. Your post makes clear what we know already which is that Trump is the law and that everyone is under his jurisdiction solely and singularly and absolutely.

Roberts must know that after Trump&Miller finish arresting Democrats in the US House, mayors and governors they will turn their attention to arresting federal judges then darken the doorway of the Supreme Court itself. Roberts must hope Trump will be lenient with him for not criticizing Trump directly. Let's hope he isn't eh.

Abrego not under the jurisdiction of USA.

 

[Lycanthrope]

We're not too far away from the Executive branch telling the Judicial and Legislative branch that they can go **** themselves. Who's going to stop him?

Certainly no one of consequence on the right. They signed their souls and balls to Dear Leader a long time ago.

 

[Tangmo]

Abrego not under the jurisdiction of USA.

Everyone in the USA is under the jurisdiction of the Generalissimo Trump which is how Abrego got sent to the death camp prison in El Salvador. No one from the government of El Salvador came to the USA to seize Abrego and haul him away to the death camp prison in their country. ICE did it under the authority of the USG which is to say Donald J. Trump the Generalissimo in chief of all the Reich and its people.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Oh look - another American conservative has "grave concerns."

 

[NolanVoyd]

Yep-- the role of the courts is not as some sort of 'supervisor' of the other branches.

The executive and legislative have power they are allowed to exercise- power that does not depend upon approval of the courts.

Take a civics class.

Checks and balances.

Each of the three branches checks the other two.

The judicial branch has the sole authority to determine what is constitutional.

They can strike down laws passed by Congress, and actions taken by the executive, that are unconstitutional.

So when it comes to matters of constitutionality the legislative and executive branches do indeed depend upon the approval of t he courts

 

[Athanasius68]

Take a civics class.

Checks and balances.

Each of the three branches checks the other two.

The judicial branch has the sole authority to determine what is constitutional.

They can strike down laws passed by Congress, and actions taken by the executive, that are unconstitutional.

So when it comes to matters of constitutionality the legislative and executive branches do indeed depend upon the approval of t he courts

And there are powers of the executive and legislative which are not subject to court review.
Foreign affairs is one-- and Mr. Roberts recently had to remind lower court judges of this.

 

[iguanaman]

Yep-- the role of the courts is not as some sort of 'supervisor' of the other branches.

The executive and legislative have power they are allowed to exercise- power that does not depend upon approval of the courts.

LOL That is exactly what the Judicial branch is charged with...to make sure the other branches are following the laws and the Constitution. If they can't do that then we are a dictatorship. Trump should not have be told that he needs to follow the laws and uphold the Constitution but that is where we are. A President's power does not include breaking our laws or ignoring our Constitution. Where did you get such a silly idea?

 

[NolanVoyd]

And there are powers of the executive and legislative which are not subject to court review.

The constitutionality is subject to vourt review

 

[Lursa]

The deportation to El Salvador was for Venezualan nationals.
Mr. Abrego is not.
However, he is an illegal alien and is subject to deportation back to El Salvador.

And so he was. The President's argument is that he is not under the jurisdiction of the USA.

SCOTUS is aware of that. So please explain their 2nd ruling?

And you completely ignored this, re: returning Abrego Garcia, why?

So then Van Hollen met with Abrego Garcia in El Salvador outside the prison. Bukele facilitated this. What stopped Bukele from handing oer Abrego Garcia to Van Hollen? Obviously it would no longer have been him 'smuggling a terrorist into the US." It's obvious that Teflon Don deliberately did NOT facilitate or effectuate his return. All he had to do was tell Bukele to do so. We're paying them to house our criminals. El Salvado is not rounding up "it's own criminal citizens" in the US and taking them...they are providing us with a service.​

​

So Teflon Don has had the opportunity and not complied. He's in contempt. If you disagree with this, please explain why?​

​

Pretty sure SCOTUS watched this unfold as well. Do you think they're stupid? Or that they realize it and arent accepting it like MAGA? You do know that judges dont have to accept bullshit, right? It's actually their job not to.

 

[Athanasius68]

SCOTUS is aware of that. So please explain their 2nd ruling?

And you completely ignored this, re: returning Abrego Garcia, why?

So then Van Hollen met with Abrego Garcia in El Salvador outside the prison. Bukele facilitated this. What stopped Bukele from handing oer Abrego Garcia to Van Hollen? Obviously it would no longer have been him 'smuggling a terrorist into the US." It's obvious that Teflon Don deliberately did NOT facilitate or effectuate his return. All he had to do was tell Bukele to do so. We're paying them to house our criminals. El Salvado is not rounding up "it's own criminal citizens" in the US and taking them...they are providing us with a service.​

​

So Teflon Don has had the opportunity and not complied. He's in contempt. If you disagree with this, please explain why?​

​

Pretty sure SCOTUS watched this unfold as well. Do you think they're stupid? Or that they realize it and arent accepting it like MAGA? You do know that judges dont have to accept bullshit, right? It's actually their job not to.

Buekele isn't under the jurisdiction of SCOTUS.
And as Roberts noted, the Executive, not the Judiciary, decides USA foreign policy.

 

[soap box]

Buekele isn't under the jurisdiction of SCOTUS.
And as Roberts noted, the Executive, not the Judiciary, decides USA foreign policy.

Is it possible you're suggesting that the SCOTUS cannot rule on an illegal EO?

Is it impossible that a president abuses power in foreign policy actions?

Hypothetically -a president declares war by executive order?

Hypothetically - a president claims that we are being attacked in order to trigger other authorities, such as raising tariffs without Congressional consent?

 

[Lursa]

Buekele isn't under the jurisdiction of SCOTUS.
And as Roberts noted, the Executive, not the Judiciary, decides USA foreign policy.

You arent answering my questions. Still bobbing and weaving. Why? How about finding the question marks and giving direct answers? And see the blue text? That's what was ordered in the initial ruling...and this opportunity, ignored, was a blatant denial of the judicial order. Right? Yes or no? He didnt even request it.

And you completely ignored this, re: returning Abrego Garcia, why? ​

​

So then Van Hollen met with Abrego Garcia in El Salvador outside the prison. Bukele facilitated this. What stopped Bukele from handing oer Abrego Garcia to Van Hollen? Obviously it would no longer have been him 'smuggling a terrorist into the US." It's obvious that Teflon Don deliberately did NOT facilitate or effectuate his return. All he had to do was tell Bukele to do so. Right?We're paying them to house our criminals. El Salvado is not rounding up "it's own criminal citizens" in the US and taking them...they are providing us with a service. What crime did Abrego Garcia commit in El Salvador?​

So Teflon Don has had the opportunity and not complied. He's in contempt. If you disagree with this, please explain why?​

 

[devildavid]

It directs the subordinate officials in the Executive branch how they are to interpret their work.

No, it doesn’t do that either.

 

[devildavid]

Buekele isn't under the jurisdiction of SCOTUS.
And as Roberts noted, the Executive, not the Judiciary, decides USA foreign policy.

This isn’t a foreign policy issue. The president cannot decide to send Americans to foreign prisons as a foreign policy issue.

 

[devildavid]

And there are powers of the executive and legislative which are not subject to court review.
Foreign affairs is one-- and Mr. Roberts recently had to remind lower court judges of this.

Amd when either branch takes actions not in their assigned power that is why the court gets involved. This is what is happening with Trump on a daily basis. This is not a foreign affairs issue at all.

 

[devildavid]

The deportation to El Salvador was for Venezualan nationals.
Mr. Abrego is not.
However, he is an illegal alien and is subject to deportation back to El Salvador.

And so he was. The President's argument is that he is not under the jurisdiction of the USA.

He wasn’t merely deported, he was sent to the prison. He was wrongly deported as well, so he still is under the jurisdiction of the USA.

 

[Athanasius68]

He wasn’t merely deported, he was sent to the prison. He was wrongly deported as well, so he still is under the jurisdiction of the USA.

He wasnt wrongly deported; he was an illegal alien.
He should not have been sent to El Salvador, however that was an easy error to fix-- all Bondi would have to have done is overturn the 2019 decision of the Immigration court (an Article II court under the jurisdiction of the Justice Dept) and send him back

The law mandates that illegal aliens be detained until 'final disposition; of their status is determined.
There are 20 million illegal aliens in the USA.
There are about 50,000 beds in detention centers in the USA.
He was sent to El Salvador as they had space for a detention center.

 

[Athanasius68]

This isn’t a foreign policy issue. The president cannot decide to send Americans to foreign prisons as a foreign policy issue.

These guys are not Americans...

 

[Athanasius68]

No, it doesn’t do that either.

That is literally the purpose of an EO

 

[Athanasius68]

You arent answering my questions. Still bobbing and weaving. Why? How about finding the question marks and giving direct answers? And see the blue text? That's what was ordered in the initial ruling...and this opportunity, ignored, was a blatant denial of the judicial order. Right? Yes or no? He didnt even request it.

And you completely ignored this, re: returning Abrego Garcia, why? ​

​

So then Van Hollen met with Abrego Garcia in El Salvador outside the prison. Bukele facilitated this. What stopped Bukele from handing oer Abrego Garcia to Van Hollen? Obviously it would no longer have been him 'smuggling a terrorist into the US." It's obvious that Teflon Don deliberately did NOT facilitate or effectuate his return. All he had to do was tell Bukele to do so. Right?We're paying them to house our criminals. El Salvado is not rounding up "it's own criminal citizens" in the US and taking them...they are providing us with a service. What crime did Abrego Garcia commit in El Salvador?​

So Teflon Don has had the opportunity and not complied. He's in contempt. If you disagree with this, please explain why?​

So Garcia is not under the authority of the USA.
Nor was he in that prison.
That was the order.