Roe is as good as gone

[Phys251]

As long as fetuses are not conferred 'personhood', what legal avenue would the Feds use to outlaw it? In the eyes of the law, a fetus is merely a collection of tissue.

The Court has five, maybe six righties on it. They've been put there with the sole purpose to destroy Roe.

They will find an argument, however absurd.

 

[HIP56948]

If this trend continues, the northeast states will have to build more roads to accommodate the influx of "Visitors".
Personally, If I were a female and had the means, I'd move my ass to states that didn't insist women were objects to control.

 

[Mycroft]

And there will always be people with lawsuits to block States from keeping them legal using the SC precedent. The pro-illegal abortionists will not stop with abortions either. The next step is to ban contraceptives. They want to legislate "morality" as they see it. Texas already allows rapists to procreate by force. That is the "morality" they seek.

Sounds like you are rife with speculation about "they".

But...I think you are getting worked up over nothing.

Consider...any ruling in the Texas case will only affect Texas and their law. Since no other state has passed that kind of law, the Supreme's ruling won't affect them. And anyone who wants to file suit about another state's laws will have to go through the whole process. They cannot cite a ruling about Texas law to object to another law if that other law isn't the same as the Texas law.

 

[cpwill]

I'm Catholic. I do not see abortion as a personal choice for me & mine. But, I very strongly believe in not getting involved in others' business.

Interesting. Is that also your opinion when it comes to other instances of what the Catholic Church considers murder?

 

[Chomsky]

The Court has five, maybe six righties on it. They've been put there with the sole purpose to destroy Roe.

They will find an argument, however absurd.

And up 'till now, the Conservatives haven't delivered.

Abortion will not be overturned, though I suppose the worst case possibility would be to throw it to the states. But, I don't find that very likely either. Possible. But, not likely.

 

[Phys251]

And up 'till now, the Conservatives haven't delivered.

That's cause they haven't had a 6-3 supermajority until Barrett. Now they can lose a vote and still get their way.

Abortion will not be overturned, though I suppose the worst case possibility would be to throw it to the states. But, I don't find that very likely either. Possible. But, not likely.

I don't think we'll get a complete ban. But as I said, when it comes to sending abortion back to the states, I hope you're right but fear you're wrong.

 

[iguanaman]

Sounds like you are rife with speculation about "they".

But...I think you are getting worked up over nothing.

Consider...any ruling in the Texas case will only affect Texas and their law. Since no other state has passed that kind of law, the Supreme's ruling won't affect them. And anyone who wants to file suit about another state's laws will have to go through the whole process. They cannot cite a ruling about Texas law to object to another law if that other law isn't the same as the Texas law.

They can use the Texas ban to claim the SC ruled that abortion is murder and that is what they will do. All States have laws against murder. By "they" I mean the religious nuts and misogynists that want more unwanted children in the world to punish women for having sex.

 

[Razoo]

Moderate Women are the largest voting block in the USA. Women could own the USA government if they would vote. Women's Rights and Women's Right to choose need women at the forefront everyday.

Conservative men and women vote against women!

Voters could google Secretive Corporate-Legislative Body Writing Our Laws

 

[Chomsky]

Interesting. Is that also your opinion when it comes to other instances of what the Catholic Church considers murder?

I choose to live lawfully, in lawful society. In addition, I do not impress my will upon others, especially mores, ethics, and matters of Faith.

Most of American law is in reasonable concert with the Catholic Church. Your 'other forms of murder' example is hyperbolic, though I must admit as someone that respects life I am against the death penalty. So as such, there are a few areas where the Church & America differ, including abortion, death penalty, and birth control (actually, I'm uneasy with the Church on this last one).

So, I live with the Constitution and accept the rights of my fellow Americans. I might be in the minority, but that's what makes this country great. I have no desire to impress my desires upon other, nor they upon me. It's that simple.

 

[Mycroft]

They can use the Texas ban to claim the SC ruled that abortion is murder and that is what they will do. All States have laws against murder.

Let me know if the SC, in fact, rules that abortion is murder. I don't think they will.

 

[JMR]

If Roe is overturned it could criminalize abortion on a national scale or it could fall back to the states individually, merely because the very conservative SCOTUS doesn't respect legal precedent.

What is the compelling constitutionally valid reason to overturn an almost 50-year-old ruling?

Clarence Thomas has been salivating over the opportunity for his entire tenure....now being the longest serving justice he gets to write the decision. He does not give a shit whether there is a compelling constitutional argument.

 

[iguanaman]

And up 'till now, the Conservatives haven't delivered.

Abortion will not be overturned, though I suppose the worst case possibility would be to throw it to the states. But, I don't find that very likely either. Possible. But, not likely.

The ultimate argument against abortion and the only "valid" one is that it takes a human life. Is that really something that is "up to the States?" All States have laws against murder.

 

[iguanaman]

Let me know if the SC, in fact, rules that abortion is murder. I don't think they will.

What is their reason for upholding the ban then? That states can use their own judgment about what is murder or not? Name another reason to ban abortion.

 

[Buckeyes85]

Sounds like you are rife with speculation about "they".

But...I think you are getting worked up over nothing.

Consider...any ruling in the Texas case will only affect Texas and their law. Since no other state has passed that kind of law, the Supreme's ruling won't affect them. And anyone who wants to file suit about another state's laws will have to go through the whole process. They cannot cite a ruling about Texas law to object to another law if that other law isn't the same as the Texas law.

You pretty much have every bit of that wrong.
Since Roe was handed down, the religious right and related conservatives have built the entire republican party around reversing the decision. And by that, reversing the holding that a woman's right to choose an abortion is a fundamental privacy right protected by our constitution. It is silly to suggest the court holding that the right simply does not exist, would have no direct effect on women in states without laws just like that in Texas.

 

[Chomsky]

The ultimate argument against abortion is that it takes a human life. Is that really something that is "up to the States." All States have laws against murder.

But remember, a fetus is not defined as a 'human life'. That's why, IMO, abortion will never be over-turned. Since a fetus is not seen as a human life, in the eyes of the law abortion is seen as simply a medical procedure. As such, under federalism states have the right to regulate medical procedures. It is this last argument, that I believe the states may make. And that, may give the Court a reason to act, if it so desires.

Look, I'm no lawyer; but from where I'm sitting - this is my lay-man's analysis of this.

 

[Chomsky]

Let me know if the SC, in fact, rules that abortion is murder. I don't think they will.

Agreed.

Worst case, they throw it to the states, but I think even that is unlikely.

I expound upon this in my post #65 above, if you're interested.

 

[aociswundumho]

Anti-choicers want the government to tell those with wombs what to do with them. They've been at it for decades.

The way they control doctors is through licensing, which is what you support. People like you want everything to be political - well, you got your wish.

 

[vegas giants]

The way they control doctors is through licensing, which is what you support. People like you want everything to be political - well, you got your wish.

When are high school dropouts going to have the freedom to practice medicine!!!!!!!

 

[Phys251]

The way they control doctors is through licensing, which is what you support. People like you want everything to be political - well, you got your wish.

Says the righty with the sexist username.

 

[Mycroft]

What is their reason for upholding the ban then? That states can use their own judgment about what is murder or not? Name another reason to ban abortion.

They haven't given a ruling on the Texas law yet.

 

[Demon]

When are high school dropouts going to have the freedom to practice medicine!!!!!!!

And why license pilots? No licenses for anything!

 

[Mycroft]

You pretty much have every bit of that wrong.
Since Roe was handed down, the religious right and related conservatives have built the entire republican party around reversing the decision. And by that, reversing the holding that a woman's right to choose an abortion is a fundamental privacy right protected by our constitution. It is silly to suggest the court holding that the right simply does not exist, would have no direct effect on women in states without laws just like that in Texas.

I haven't suggested anything about "the court holding that the right simply does not exist". I don't know HOW the court will rule...let alone whether they'll say "the right" doesn't exist.

 

[iguanaman]

They haven't given a ruling on the Texas law yet.

Not stopping the ban sounds like a ruling to me. The law clearly contradicts Roe Vs, Wade.

 

[iguanaman]

But remember, a fetus is not defined as a 'human life'. That's why, IMO, abortion will never be over-turned. Since a fetus is not seen as a human life, in the eyes of the law abortion is seen as simply a medical procedure. As such, under federalism states have the right to regulate medical procedures. It is this last argument, that I believe the states may make. And that, may give the Court a reason to act, if it so desires.

Look, I'm no lawyer; but from where I'm sitting - this is my lay-man's analysis of this.

So "under federalism" if a State wants to ban appendectomies it would be their right too? I pretty sure that is not the case. Interfering between a person and their doctor is not a State right. The only reason a ban on abortion would be up held is that the court is ruling that abortion is murder and Roe vs wade is overturned. There is no other valid reason for the courts to stop a medical procedure and they can't just say it is up to that States to determine what they think is murder either.

 

[CLAX1911]

The GOP controlled SCOTUS has signaled to their bosses that they will soon kill the Roe decision. How you say, by not blocking the Texas Law, but giving it an emergency hearing.

the Texas law doesn't actually go against roe v Wade. What it does do is permit people to sue a doctor who performs abortions for performing an abortion.

It's kind of a logistical workaround. The right to abortion was never established. The rights recognized by Rosie Wade is the right to privacy.

And soon, only those who can afford to go to other countries will have safe abortions available to them. The rest will have to return to the days of the back room abortions that had become to be known as the coat hanger abortions. And only those who have had the abortions performed within the state shall face the law.

no they won't only the people performing the abortions can face litigation. Not criminal charges.

In many states women who have been raped will not be allowed to take the morning after pill to insure that they do not have to carry and raise their rapists child. Of course these same states will not provide a penny to help these women raise the children that they force them to have, as of coure the rape had to be the woman's fault. .

There is a work around that is likely legal. Many abortions are performed by taking pills. The same pills prescribed to people for other issues.

Plausible deniability will eliminate standing in a law suit.

There might just be a lot of erroneous diagnoses if Cushing's disease.