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Rich people are more socially, economically liberal

Viking11

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Abortion

Less than $25k

- 37% Oppose
- 63% Support

Over $200k

- 29% Oppose
- 71% Support

Gay marriage

Less than $25k

- 40% Oppose
- 60% Support

Over $200k

- 25% Oppose
- 75% Support

Raise minimum wage

Less than $25k

- 44% Oppose
- 55% Support

Over $200k

- 39% Oppose
- 60% Support

Obamacare

Less than $25k

- 55% Oppose
- 45% Support

Over $200k

- 49% Oppose
- 51% Support

Source: https://www.isidewith.com/polls
 
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joG

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Abortion

Less than $25k

- 37% Oppose
- 63% Support

Over $200k

- 29% Oppose
- 71% Support

Gay marriage

Less than $25k

- 40% Oppose
- 60% Support

Over $200k

- 25% Oppose
- 75% Support

Raise minimum wage

Less than $25k

- 44% Oppose
- 55% Support

Over $200k

- 39% Oppose
- 60% Support

Obamacare

Less than $25k

- 55% Oppose
- 45% Support

Over $200k

- 49% Oppose
- 51% Support

Source: https://www.isidewith.com/polls

That's easy. The more money you have, the less harm a few small payments do you.
 

Marquez

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That's easy. The more money you have, the less harm a few small payments do you.

Also, the more money you have, the more likely you are to be educated and to have traveled. I think both of those endeavors tend to lead to a more liberal political orientation.
 

joG

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Also, the more money you have, the more likely you are to be educated and to have traveled. I think both of those endeavors tend to lead to a more liberal political orientation.

That is, what we high earning well educated people like to think, because it makes our opinions sound more objective. That is not to say that there is nothing to the correlation. I believed this for a while and am still unsure. But having watched a number of people progress from university into jobs and to differing levels of success in various very different areas I have come to believe that it is less so, than we like to think.
 

Brtblutwo

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That is, what we high earning well educated people like to think, because it makes our opinions sound more objective. That is not to say that there is nothing to the correlation. I believed this for a while and am still unsure. But having watched a number of people progress from university into jobs and to differing levels of success in various very different areas I have come to believe that it is less so, than we like to think.

Does your hypothesis include the many staunch conservative billionaires that finance the Republican candidates and their oppressive policies? Men like the Koch Brothers, Sheldon Adelson, and many, many others like them?


.
 

joG

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Does your hypothesis include the many staunch conservative billionaires that finance the Republican candidates and their oppressive policies? Men like the Koch Brothers, Sheldon Adelson, and many, many others like them?


.

Yes. :)
 

Brtblutwo

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Wishful thinking on your part, indeed. The GOP would not be so powerful if your belief were true.

I wish you all the luck there is in the future.
 

RetiredNSmilin

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I cannot say anything about rich / wealthy people's political leanings in that we seldom discussed that as I was fixing their yachts, but I CAN tell you this with 100% certainty.

Almost 100% of all the very rich and very wealthy yacht owners I have dealt with have been some of the nicest people I have every run across.

This was in New England as well as Ft Lauderdale.

Many the time, I was ready to break for lunch, when they insisted I stay on board and dine with them in the salon.

One CEO made me a turkey sandwich as he was making one for himself. That was the very first time I had whole cranberry sauce on a turkey sandwich. Now it is the best way I like them.

Another time the owners wife was heading out to go shopping as I was sitting at the table talking to her husband. She kissed him goodbye, then turned and kissed my on the top of my head, as she left. Saying she did not want me to feel left out. :3oops:

Another time everything I touched got fixed on an investment banker's boat, so he kept giving me little annoying items that were broke, and I fixed them, one after another. He wrote me a $200 tip, then asked for me specifically each and every time and gave me that same tip when I left.

Good people.

My theory is that when they are on their yacht, they are relaxing and enjoying the fruits of their labors, and it puts them in a happy state of mind.

The very few, and very rare pricks I met were those that had go fast power boats under 25 feet. You know the kind. The same type guy that wears all kinds of gold chains and is new money, and it goes right to his head. Their go fast power boat is just part of their uniform.
 

joG

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Wishful thinking on your part, indeed. The GOP would not be so powerful if your belief were true.

I wish you all the luck there is in the future.

Well not quite. The hypothesis is somewhat more complex than the short observation I made of a subset of the population. You see, in sociology it is always difficult to generalize from a sample and that is why I gave a short sketch of the group I referred to. The examples you have referred to do not really fit that category.
 

Gaugingcatenate

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Also, the more money you have, the more likely you are to be educated and to have traveled. I think both of those endeavors tend to lead to a more liberal political orientation.
I completely disagree, as an avid traveler, with travel more than anything else being the loved and faithful mistress of my life.

I would say the liberal may be the one that starts his/her journeys, but upon traveling sees the world more and more clearly. Through observation and talking with other seasoned travelers, returns home to reflect/understand, especially Americans perhaps, that the world has vastly improved over this last 200 years, health, wealth and general well being due to it, over that same period, becoming more and more capitalistic and more and more democratically republican, small d small r.

They might, having traveled to almost any other place and well be able to see and better understand the plight of those not as favorably situated. But this also comes with the understanding from where much of those benefits derive that have become more abundant world wide. Due primarily to generally better governance, republics that have actually become decently democratic, as well as big C capitalism.

And while that mix tends classically liberal, it is not truly the contemporary brand of liberal.
 

Marquez

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That is, what we high earning well educated people like to think, because it makes our opinions sound more objective. That is not to say that there is nothing to the correlation. I believed this for a while and am still unsure. But having watched a number of people progress from university into jobs and to differing levels of success in various very different areas I have come to believe that it is less so, than we like to think.

Here's evidence that higher levels of education are associated with democratic political learnings.
 

Marquez

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I completely disagree, as an avid traveler, with travel more than anything else being the loved and faithful mistress of my life.

I would say the liberal may be the one that starts his/her journeys, but upon traveling sees the world more and more clearly. Through observation and talking with other seasoned travelers, returns home to reflect/understand, especially Americans perhaps, that the world has vastly improved over this last 200 years, health, wealth and general well being due to it, over that same period, becoming more and more capitalistic and more and more democratically republican, small d small r.

They might, having traveled to almost any other place and well be able to see and better understand the plight of those not as favorably situated. But this also comes with the understanding from where much of those benefits derive that have become more abundant world wide. Due primarily to generally better governance, republics that have actually become decently democratic, as well as big C capitalism.

And while that mix tends classically liberal, it is not truly the contemporary brand of liberal.

Here's evidence that democrats travel more often.
 

joG

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Here's evidence that higher levels of education are associated with democratic political learnings.

Thank you for the link. But nobody said that there is no correlation. I know that study. It is one of the ones that seems to confirm, what I said to a certain degree. Or don't you think so?
 

Marquez

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Thank you for the link. But nobody said that there is no correlation. I know that study. It is one of the ones that seems to confirm, what I said to a certain degree. Or don't you think so?

I think you said that you don't believe educated, well-travelled people have more objectivity in their political opinions as a result of that education and travel. I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree. I think education and travel give people a larger spectrum of ideas and perspectives by which to form their political opinions. I also think that education and travel help people identify biases in their thinking. That creates more objectivity. I'm not saying these folks are not prone to tunnel vision and bias, just that they tend to be less prone to those things as a result of their knowledge and experiences.
 

joG

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I think you said that you don't believe educated, well-travelled people have more objectivity in their political opinions as a result of that education and travel. I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree. I think education and travel give people a larger spectrum of ideas and perspectives by which to form their political opinions. I also think that education and travel help people identify biases in their thinking. That creates more objectivity. I'm not saying these folks are not prone to tunnel vision and bias, just that they tend to be less prone to those things as a result of their knowledge and experiences.

No. I believe I said something different. And in any event, the study you posted does not really show any more that a correlation. Correlations are dangerous though. Just think about the high correlation of black males identifying as Democrats and their high per capita murder rate. It would not be right you say that Democrats are murderers. ;)
 

Gaugingcatenate

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Here's evidence that democrats travel more often.
That maybe could be considered a stepping stool to evidence. This simplistic device only breaks down travel by the very blunt instrument of electoral college assignation of states into red/blue/purple without any real identifiers as to which specific ideology these individual traveling folks actually believe...

Besides which, if you read closely, I stated they often start their journeys more liberal... and as their eyes adjust to the real, pragmatic world, they also adjust to being less idealistic and more realistic in their ideas of how the world truly works.

Entiendes? Capiche'? Understand?
 

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That maybe could be considered a stepping stool to evidence. This simplistic device only breaks down travel by the very blunt instrument of electoral college assignation of states into red/blue/purple without any real identifiers as to which specific ideology these individual traveling folks actually believe...

Besides which, if you read closely, I stated they often start their journeys more liberal... and as their eyes adjust to the real, pragmatic world, they also adjust to being less idealistic and more realistic in their ideas of how the world truly works.

Entiendes? Capiche'? Understand?

Perhaps you don't like the evidence or you don't think it's decisive, but it is evidence nonetheless. I'm not sure it's conclusive, and it's certainly not proof. But it's evidence.

It would be very difficult for us to determine whether people "start their journeys more liberal" or whether they become more liberal as a result. Either way, I think there's a correlation.

Capire? Verstehen? Comprendre?
 
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Gaugingcatenate

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Perhaps you don't like the evidence or you don't think it's decisive, but it is evidence nonetheless. I'm not sure it's conclusive, and it's certainly not proof. But it's evidence.

It would be very difficult for us to determine whether people "start their journeys more liberal" or whether they become more liberal as a result. Either way, I think there's a correlation.

Capire? Verstehen? Comprendre?
At a Chinese wall here I guess. In a court of law they would not accept that as evidence of much of anything, much less anything approaching conclusive.
 

Marquez

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At a Chinese wall here I guess. In a court of law they would not accept that as evidence of much of anything, much less anything approaching conclusive.

So what? We're not in a court of law. Do you have evidence that conservatives are more likely to travel, or that there is no correlation? If so, let's see it. Otherwise, give it up, and cool it with the condescending crap.
 

Gaugingcatenate

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So what? We're not in a court of law. Do you have evidence that conservatives are more likely to travel, or that there is no correlation? If so, let's see it. Otherwise, give it up, and cool it with the condescending crap.
I am not the one that is asserting that I have evidence that conservatives are more likely to travel. It is not, therefore, my duty to prove that which you try to thrust upon me. It is, however, incumbent upon you to prove what you have, indeed, asserted.

I have merely identified the fact that your evidence is demonstrably flimsy, hardly any corroboration, in reality, of what you state to be the truth.
 

jaeger19

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Also, the more money you have, the more likely you are to be educated and to have traveled. I think both of those endeavors tend to lead to a more liberal political orientation.


I would disagree.. but then again that's because what is considered conservative today is anything but conservative.

It is unfortunate that in my republican party there is a definite anti education theme.
 

jaeger19

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So what? We're not in a court of law. Do you have evidence that conservatives are more likely to travel, or that there is no correlation? If so, let's see it. Otherwise, give it up, and cool it with the condescending crap.

Define exactly what a "conservative is".

Then define exactly what a "liberal" is
 

beerftw

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Abortion

Less than $25k

- 37% Oppose
- 63% Support

Over $200k

- 29% Oppose
- 71% Support

Gay marriage

Less than $25k

- 40% Oppose
- 60% Support

Over $200k

- 25% Oppose
- 75% Support

Raise minimum wage

Less than $25k

- 44% Oppose
- 55% Support

Over $200k

- 39% Oppose
- 60% Support

Obamacare

Less than $25k

- 55% Oppose
- 45% Support

Over $200k

- 49% Oppose
- 51% Support

Source: https://www.isidewith.com/polls

So you are saying liberals are a bunch of rich white people who hate rich white people, I don't understand just say say what you stand for!
 

Marquez

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I am not the one that is asserting that I have evidence that conservatives are more likely to travel. It is not, therefore, my duty to prove that which you try to thrust upon me. It is, however, incumbent upon you to prove what you have, indeed, asserted.

I have merely identified the fact that your evidence is demonstrably flimsy, hardly any corroboration, in reality, of what you state to be the truth.

You evidently know next to nothing about argumentation. I offer up a simple hypothesis: liberals tend to be more educated and travel more often. You disagree vehemently. I then offer up evidence from credible sources -- the PEW research polls and International Business Traveler -- to back my hypothesis. You answer that my evidence is garbage. You give no explanation as to why that evidence is garbage except to say that you think the "electoral college" is a "blunt instrument." You then offer absolutely zero evidence for any of your claims and absolutely zero evidence in contradiction of my evidence. You then close your post with a condescending multi-linguistic "understand?"

I'm not saying my evidence is definitive. I don't think it is. But it's light years ahead of any insights you've offered, which are none aside from your personal anecdotes. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Very small claims, like my own, require much less. We're not in a court of law, we're just advancing ideas. Evidence is good. Lack of evidence, not so good. You don't seem to get that. You clearly have nothing substantive to say on the matter, so buzz off. You're not worth my attention any longer.
 

Marquez

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Define exactly what a "conservative is".

Then define exactly what a "liberal" is

In the evidence I put forth, liberals tend to vote Democrat, while conservatives tend to vote Republican. Simplistic, but measurable.
 
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