RFK Jr., HHS to Link Autism to Tylenol Use in Pregnancy and Folate Deficiencies

[JohnfrmClevelan]

You talk a big game about being an expert, but you posts haven't demonstrated that you are any kind expert.

How would you know? Seriously - what's your background?

The guy who still claims the discredited Proximal Origins paper is proof that covid was zoonotic and not from a lab? Thats hilarious.

Discredited by whom?

It’s telling you couldn't respond specifically to the things I pointed out they lied about during covid. Shouldn't "experts" be able to do that?

Jaeger already did that, and I agreed with him. Had he not posted that, I would have posted something very similar.

Strawman noted. I never said no vaccines work. But the covid vaccine didn't do what they told us it would do.

Who told you? We already went over this, as did Jaeger. The vaccines were very, very good. What you think you were told? That came from the right. Nobody that understands vaccines and immunity ever made those claims, because that's not how vaccines work. But if simplifications were made in addressing 300 million people, few of whom had the background to understand immunity, wouldn't that be understandable?

N95 masks help with Covid. The surgical masks are just windows dressing.

Really? Why? Are you going to tell me about the size of a virus particle vs. the pore sizes of various masks? Then I will remind you that viruses don't live outside of water droplets, which are much larger.

Fauci admitted the social distancing wasnt based on science. How can you defend that?

It wasn't based on any specific study. It was based on common sense, and what we already knew about transmission.

Like I said before, if you deny distance and masks helped to minimize transmission, you are denying germ theory. And you're probably only doing it for COVID, because nobody is that stupid when it comes to the flu or colds. You keep your distance.

You stick to these vague statements. Why don't you respond more specifically to my claims? For a supposed experts you seem to be lacking on details.

I was referring to your team's crazy claims. The COVID vaccine(s) contain tracking chips, they change our DNA, they cause infertility, they cause cancer, etc. Boneheaded stuff.

That article frames legitimate worries about rushed trials & infertility risks while ignoring pharma indemnification and trial deaths.

No, that article listed a bunch of conspiracy theories. No surprise here that you are defending them as serious concerns.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

You're a lawyer right?

I went to law school after a science major, ten years in research labs, and a year of graduate school. How about you?

That statement is 100% wrong and if you believe that you have no idea what you are talking about.

There is no data that shows the healthy and young need the covid vaccine. If you think there is data that shows that then post a link.

Is the Mayo Clinic enough of an authority for you? Or do I need to go on YouTube and find a podcaster you trust?

COVID-19 vaccines for kids: What you need to know

Learn about the safety and effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines for kids, the possible side effects, and the benefits of vaccination.

www.mayoclinic.org

 

[MAGAnificent]

So who doesn't have COVID antibodies by now? Robinson Crusoe?

Duh!!! How about those who did not get the vaccines and never contracted Covid. Many of them exist. Martial law was never declared and there was no gestapo to go house to house and force everyone to get it.

 

[BirdinHand]

Duh!!! How about those who did not get the vaccines and never contracted Covid. Many of them exist.

Evidence of this?

Martial law was never declared and there was no gestapo to go house to house and force everyone to get it.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Evidence of this?

Silly response. Are you demanding names?

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

Silly response. Are you demanding names?

No, but some common sense would be nice. Or evidence. At this point, we would be surprised to see either out of you.

A lot of those people who "never got COVID"? A lot of them got COVID and never knew it, because they had mild or no symptoms. I've seen MAGA types brag that they would never get a COVID test.

 

[MAGAnificent]

No, but some common sense would be nice. Or evidence.

Common sense is working out that not every unvaccinated person contracted Covid and not every vaccinated person avoided contracting it. We can disagree on the numbers; however, it is dumb to think there are not unvaccinated individuals who avoided contracting the virus.

At this point, we would be surprised to see either out of you.

If you displayed a little less ridiculous narcissism, more individuals might take you seriously

A lot of those people who "never got COVID"? A lot of them got COVID and never knew it, because they had mild or no symptoms. I've seen MAGA types brag that they would never get a COVID test.

I have taken every Moderna Covid vaccine offered. However, in that period before the vaccines became available, on my job, I was exposed all over the place on the road as well as in the office and I never contracted it. And I tested every time time I came down with even s simple case of the sniffles, either at urgent care, or with a home test kit. I still get tested any time I come down with cold or flu symptoms. At the same time, many at the office who were also vaccinated did contract Covid. I think you are just projecting that the MAGA crowd avoids getting tested.

 

[BirdinHand]

Silly response. Are you demanding names?

I’d like to see some proof that there is a large body of individuals anywhere in the US that currently don’t have Covid antibodies, yes.

 

[MAGAnificent]

I’d like to see some proof that there is a large body of individuals anywhere in the US that currently don’t have Covid antibodies, yes.

Do you at least accept that there are non-vaccinated individuals who have never contracted Covid? If not, I'll waste no more time with you on the subject.

 

[BirdinHand]

Do you at least accept that there are non-vaccinated individuals who have never contracted Covid? If not, I'll waste no more time with you on the subject.

I’d guess there are unvaccinated individuals that have never experienced any significant symptoms from COVID.

I find it highly unlikely and rather implausible - with how transmissible COVID is - that many individuals in the US have not yet been exposed to COVID.

Perhaps a few, but not any large sample.

And if a person has been exposed to Covid, they’ll have some level of antibodies. Regardless of the symptoms they’ve experienced or their vaccination status.

That’s how the human immune system works. That’s the science. That’s reality.

 

[MAGAnificent]

I find it highly unlikely and rather implausible - with how transmissible COVID is - that many individuals in the US have not yet been exposed to COVID.

Perhaps a few, but not any large sample.

Well at least you accept that there were some. However, it's not as rare as you think. In a population of roughly 340 million, it's much more than a few. Even in perfectly healthy individuals risk factors may vary. For instance:

"Is there a link between blood type and COVID risk?​

It seems so. Over the past several years, researchers have tried to answer this question using the available data. Early in the pandemic, researchers noticed that people with blood Type A seemed to be more likely to get sick with COVID. And people with blood Type O seemed to be less likely to get it. On the other hand, some studies found no connection at all."

https://www.goodrx.com/conditions/covid-19/blood-type-covid-risk

 

[BirdinHand]

Well at least you accept that there were some. However, it's not as rare as you think. In a population of roughly 340 million, it's much more than a few. Even in perfectly healthy individuals risk factors may vary. For instance:

"Is there a link between blood type and COVID risk?​

It seems so. Over the past several years, researchers have tried to answer this question using the available data. Early in the pandemic, researchers noticed that people with blood Type A seemed to be more likely to get sick with COVID. And people with blood Type O seemed to be less likely to get it. On the other hand, some studies found no connection at all."

https://www.goodrx.com/conditions/covid-19/blood-type-covid-risk

You don’t seem capable of discerning that displaying symptoms =\= exposure.

Do you understand that people may have developed antibodies to COVID without ever displaying symptoms of illness?

 

[MAGAnificent]

Do you understand that people may have developed antibodies to COVID without ever displaying symptoms of illness?

You are still blindly assuming that pretty much everyone was infected at some level and some simply did not display symptoms. However, I'll accept that you at least acknowledge that there are people who were never vaccinated and never contracted a raging case of Covid.

 

[BirdinHand]

You are still blindly assuming that pretty much everyone was infected at some level and some simply did not display symptoms. However, I'll accept that you at least acknowledge that there are people who were never vaccinated and never contracted a raging case of Covid.

You don’t understand even basic science apparently.

No wonder you are so gullible when it comes MAHA nonsense.

 

[Threegoofs]

I went to law school after a science major, ten years in research labs, and a year of graduate school. How about you?

His qualification is that he spends a LOT of time on Twitter and You Tube.

That’s it.

 

[MAGAnificent]

You don’t understand even basic science apparently.

No wonder you are so gullible when it comes MAHA nonsense.

Very evasive response. I'll take the win.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Even without vaccines, natural resistance (antibodies) grew, because people were exposed.

Agreed.. However there are people who were exposed and never came down with even an asymptomatic case of Covid.

Viruses don't "mutate down," they just mutate. And they do their mutating, and propagating, in infected humans (or other vectors). Infections decrease as a larger percentage of vectors develop immunity.

They mostly mutate down.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

Agreed.. However there are people who were exposed and never came down with even an asymptomatic case of Covid.

Sure. A very small number of people never got vaccinated or otherwise exposed to the virus. Why are we talking about this very small group of people again? Why are they relevant?

They mostly mutate down.

That's a good article with good explanations that anybody should be able to understand.

You should read it all the way through.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Sure. A very small number of people never got vaccinated or otherwise exposed to the virus. Why are we talking about this very small group of people again? Why are they relevant?

To negate the claims that everyone was infected at some level.

That's a good article with good explanations that anybody should be able to understand.

You should read it all the way through.

I did read it all the way through. The premise is still that most viruses, including Covid tend to evolve and weaken. Or are we still in a deadly pandemic?

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

Common sense is working out that not every unvaccinated person contracted Covid and not every vaccinated person avoided contracting it. We can disagree on the numbers; however, it is dumb to think there are not unvaccinated individuals who avoided contracting the virus.

In any large population, there are probably a handful. What point you think this makes, I don't know.

If you displayed a little less ridiculous narcissism, more individuals might take you seriously

If your team made more sensible, science- and fact-based arguments, I would be less dismissive of them.

I have taken every Moderna Covid vaccine offered. However, in that period before the vaccines became available, on my job, I was exposed all over the place on the road as well as in the office and I never contracted it. And I tested every time time I came down with even s simple case of the sniffles, either at urgent care, or with a home test kit. I still get tested any time I come down with cold or flu symptoms. At the same time, many at the office who were also vaccinated did contract Covid.

You are one data point. And in the early period before the vaccines were out, yeah, of course there were a lot of people that had not yet been exposed.

And vaccinated people can still contract COVID; vaccines don't prevent viruses from entering your nose or wherever, they just attenuate your immune system. This is one of the biggest gripes I have with the antivax crowd - they think that vaccination is an absolute shield against infection, because their understanding of immunity is severely lacking. As it is with almost everybody, but most people trust and listen to the experts, while others (on the right, mostly) are looking for any reason to distrust them. And this is a recent phenomenon that started with COVID. Mistrust of scientists is a political tool of the right to keep the groups separated and at each other's throats.

I think you are just projecting that the MAGA crowd avoids getting tested.

Remember it was trump himself that blamed our high COVID rates on testing.

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/502819-trump-on-coronavirus-if-we-stop-testing-right-now-wed-have-very-few-cases/

In my own family (some more anecdotal evidence for ya), my MAGA sister refused vaccination until she was hospitalized twice for COVID. Her MAGA husband had to get vaxxed on the sly to avoid her wrath. And she stopped talking to me when I made a hard-to-get vax appointment for our elderly mother.

And while that is anecdotal, there are studies that show vax rates are lower in red states. You know it's true.

They mostly mutate down.

They mutate. Your article discusses why some strains thrive and others do not. It's all about the vectors and immunity, and increasing immunity for a large percentage of those vectors - which includes vaxxing kids and healthy people - is what allows viruses to more or less peter out. Meaning we would have seen a lot more serious cases and deaths without the vaccine being widely administered. Allowing COVID to - hopefully - have petered out on its own would have been crazy. Especially because there was no good reason to do so.

I guess I don't understand why you - who gets vaxxed regularly - are even making arguments against vaccination for everybody.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

To negate the claims that everyone was infected at some level.

But what is the purpose of that point?

I did read it all the way through. The premise is still that most viruses, including Covid tend to evolve and weaken. Or are we still in a deadly pandemic?

See above. Without COVID vaccines, the pandemic would have been far worse, and COVID infections - which are still high - would have been higher today.

 

[MAGAnificent]

If your team made more sensible, science- and fact-based arguments, I would be less dismissive of them.

And vaccinated people can still contract COVID; vaccines don't prevent viruses from entering your nose or wherever, they just attenuate your immune system. This is one of the biggest gripes I have with the antivax crowd -

Obviously, I am not one of the anti-vax crowd.

- they think that vaccination is an absolute shield against infection,

I have never thought such.

As it is with almost everybody, but most people trust and listen to the experts,

while others (on the right, mostly) are looking for any reason to distrust them.

My recommendation has always been to get the vaccines. Politicization of the virus and the vaccine is what led to hesitancy in many.

And this is a recent phenomenon that started with COVID. Mistrust of scientists is a political tool of the right to keep the groups separated and at each other's throats.

On medical issues, I have always trusted my own doctors and specialists. Politicized science, not so much.

Remember it was trump himself that blamed our high COVID rates on testing.

At the time, he was to a point correct. The initial CDC test was faulty.

In my own family (some more anecdotal evidence for ya), my MAGA sister refused vaccination until she was hospitalized twice for COVID. Her MAGA husband had to get vaxxed on the sly to avoid her wrath. And she stopped talking to me when I made a hard-to-get vax appointment for our elderly mother.

Then your sister was an anti-vaxxer who took her own chances.

And while that is anecdotal, there are studies that show vax rates are lower in red states. You know it's true.

Poll extrapolation data? The reality is that red state governors including mine pointed out that the hesitancy was largely in inner city areas run by democrats Nearly everyone I personally know and new took the jabs.

They mutate. Your article discusses why some strains thrive and others do not. It's all about the vectors and immunity, and increasing immunity for a large percentage of those vectors - which includes vaxxing kids and healthy people - is what allows viruses to more or less peter out.

Meaning we would have seen a lot more serious cases and deaths without the vaccine being widely administered.

In regard to the first two very deadly variants I agree. The vaccines likely saved millions of lives.

Allowing COVID to - hopefully - have petered out on its own would have been crazy. Especially because there was no good reason to do so.

See above. I am in no way suggesting that things would have went as well without the vaccines.

I guess I don't understand why you - who gets vaxxed regularly - are even making arguments against vaccination for everybody.

I never made any arguments against any individual getting the vaccines. I am just against any suggestion of mandates, especially at this point as the virus has mutated down to the point where for most it's no worse than the common cold.

 

[MAGAnificent]

See above. Without COVID vaccines, the pandemic would have been far worse,

I absolutely agree.

which are still high - would have been higher today

Common flu infections are still high as well. What's your point? We have not been in a pandemic since about 2022. If the Covid virus at some point mutates upward to pandemic levels, then we can talk.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

I absolutely agree.

Common flu infections are still high as well. What's your point? We have not been in a pandemic since about 2022. If the Covid virus at some point mutates upward to pandemic levels, then we can talk.

My point is that there is a right side to this argument - that vaccines work - and a wrong side. RFK and trump are absolutely taking the wrong side, and making it a political football. There should be no disagreement on this subject, yet there is.

 

[MAGAnificent]

My point is that there is a right side to this argument - that vaccines work - and a wrong side.

I agree. Vaccines work at some level and likely saved millions of lives during the pandemic. My points are that Covid evolved and weakened, and the Covid vaccines are now hit and miss much like the flu vaccines. It's not a criticism of vaccines, it's just reality. It's very difficult to keep up with the variants. And again, there is that it's no longer a pandemic and we do not need to be as militant about pushing vaccines. Just recommend them and let everyone make their own choice.

RFK and trump are absolutely taking the wrong side, and making it a political football. There should be no disagreement on this subject, yet there is.

Its people like you that are making it a political football. You are so anti-MAGA that you will go against anything that RFK and Trump push out of hand. For instance, most of you do not want to even consider the possibility that pregnant women taking Tylenol in the later stages of pregnancy are at risk of their child being born with autism just because RFK suggested it.