RFK Jr., HHS to Link Autism to Tylenol Use in Pregnancy and Folate Deficiencies

[jaeger19]

I don't have anything against mRNA vaccines. And I appreciate how effective they were against the first two very deadly Covid variants. Perhaps someday they will develop one that keeps up with all the variants,

Unlikely given how fast and how variable the variants are. However, the mrna technology is the best technology to keep up with the various variants.

More likely maybe, however not by much. Nowhere near the efficacy of the vaccines during to first two variants. It's still hit and miss.

 

[MAGAnificent]

Unlikely given how fast and how variable the variants are. However, the mrna technology is the best technology to keep up with the various variants.

Perhaps with AI, it will improve.

 

[NOLA Dude]

The reason I don't address you as much as some of the others is because you are even worse at choosing what you believe. I understand that most people aren't experts, and here on a debate board most of us get our fodder from whatever media we choose to read, and I try not to completely discount where people end up if they get to some reasonable place, even if it's wrong. But you consistently just regurgitate the party line with seemingly zero critical thinking.

Oh so you are a secret expert?

Our experts were basically correct. You weren't lied to about COVID, you were lied to about being lied to by people who make their money on clicks. The COVID vaccines worked, and they still work. Masks work, even cloth masks, and distance works. If you deny any of those things, you are either being disingenuous, or you don't understand the explanations. (Not understanding the explanations is a biggie when it comes to vaccines and immunity. People just don't understand how they work, why you can still get sick when vaccinated, and why it's important that everyone get vaccinated.)

You are supposedly an expert yourself, but what about how the "experts" lied to us during covid on multiple things like:

-if you get the Covid vaccine you won't get covid
-if you get the covid vaccine you won't transmit it to anyone else
-initially saying masks arent needed for the public(they said it due to a shortage of masks)
-the 6 feet social distancing was based on solid science; Fauci said: it just sort of appeared.
-surgical masks are effective against covid(they aren't. Only N95 maks are)
-covid didn't come from a lab
-lockdowns would flatten the curve in 2 weeks
-closing schools would benefit kids

Now you are relying on RFK and the press releases his department puts out. Well, believing this guy paints you as a very gullible person. This guy is regularly caught in lies, regularly caught making up statistics, and basically regularly looking foolish when talking about things he is supposed to know about as head of HHS. And you are instead saying that Fauci and our pre-trump HHS were the liars?

I just listed the lies above

That's why I don't bother answering you more often. There is nothing to be gained for me.

Oh for real?

 

[jaeger19]

Perhaps with AI, it will improve.

Ai has nothing to offer in this realm.

Ai is only as good as the algorithm written by a human.

 

[jaeger19]

Oh so you are a secret expert?

You are supposedly an expert yourself, but what about how the "experts" lied to us during covid on multiple things like:

-if you get the Covid vaccine you won't get covid

Vaccination reduces your chance of infection

-if you get the covid vaccine you won't transmit it to anyone else

If you get vaccinated you are less likely to transmit the virus if you do become infected

-initially saying masks arent needed for the public(they said it due to a shortage of masks)

And because at the time the consensus was that if you had any symptoms you would isolate.
Then when it became understood that you could have asymptomatic spreaders which wouldn’t know they were infecting people. Masks for source control were recommended.

-the 6 feet social distancing was based on solid science; Fauci said: it just sort of appeared.

It is based on the physics of droplets

-surgical masks aren't effective against covid(they claimed it was)

They are for source control.

-covid didn't come from a lab

There is no current evidence that it did while there is evidence of zoonotic transmission.

-lockdowns would flatten the curve in 2 weeks

If they were followed.

-closing schools would benefit kids.

It benefited society.

I just listed the lies above

Oh for real?

None of tge above were lies.

The lie told to you was maga telling you they were lies.

By the way.. each of the statements I have made are backed up by good science.

 

[NOLA Dude]

Actually today, for the vast majority of people who contract Covid, it's not a major issue. The virus has mutated down to the point that for most it's no worse than the common cold or flu. For those who have serious comorbidities, Covid is a major issue, but then so is the flu and in some cases a bad cold.

Excellent point. Considering that, older people and high risk people who have multiple comorbidities are the people who should think about talking the covid vaccine. There risk benefit analysis for the healthy and young doesn't show they need the vaccine.

 

[Fledermaus]

Of course they do. I have taken every Covid vaccine and booster offered. Any efficacy is better than no efficacy. I just refuse to accept libruls like you blowing sunshine up everyone's ass about how effective they are at this point in time.

Librul.....

 

[Fledermaus]

Excellent point. Considering that, older people and high risk people who have multiple comorbidities are the people who should think about talking the covid vaccine. There risk benefit analysis for the healthy and young doesn't show they need the vaccine.

Post #1,560.....

Care to respond?

 

[jaeger19]

Excellent point. Considering that, older people and high risk people who have multiple comorbidities are the people who should think about talking the covid vaccine. There risk benefit analysis for the healthy and young doesn't show they need the vaccine.

Wrong

 

[MAGAnificent]

Librul.....

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

Oh so you are a secret expert?

I worked in research labs for about ten years, and even did some grad school before I went into law (including a grad-level immunology course). Not an immunology expert, but I know how to read papers and interpret data. And I know crap research when I see it.

You are supposedly an expert yourself, but what about how the "experts" lied to us during covid on multiple things like:

-if you get the Covid vaccine you won't get covid
-if you get the covid vaccine you won't transmit it to anyone else
-initially saying masks arent needed for the public(they said it due to a shortage of masks)
-the 6 feet social distancing was based on solid science; Fauci said: it just sort of appeared.
-surgical masks are effective against covid(they aren't. Only N95 maks are)
-covid didn't come from a lab
-lockdowns would flatten the curve in 2 weeks
-closing schools would benefit kids

Jaeger (a doctor himself) was right; none of these are lies, they are just dumb misinterpretations - and probably intentional misinterpretations - of the facts. You are being manipulated by your own team, you know.

Just step back a bit and think about what you are trying to claim here; vaccines don't work, masks don't help minimize transmission, distancing isn't effective, etc. You are basically denying germ theory altogether when you make these claims.

I just listed the lies above

You just listed your team's weird slant on the facts. You should ask yourself what they are gaining by intentionally misleading you about COVID to your detriment. I think their calculation is that your team will garner more votes and more power if they can convince you that doctors and scientists are the bad guys, and this is all a big (worldwide) plot by the liberals to do something that should make you angry. I've seen some pretty crazy accusations coming from your side about COVID and COVID vaccines, but the really strange thing is that people seem to grab onto one and disregard the others, which gives us a bunch of people afraid of the vaccines, but for completely different reasons, none of them valid.

COVID-19 vaccine rumors and conspiracy theories: The need for cognitive inoculation against misinformation to improve vaccine adherence - PMC

Rumors and conspiracy theories, can contribute to vaccine hesitancy. Monitoring online data related to COVID-19 vaccine candidates can track vaccine misinformation in real-time and assist in negating its impact. This study aimed to examine COVID-19 ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Eight Persistent COVID-19 Myths and Why People Believe Them

From a human-made virus to vaccine conspiracy theories, we rounded up the most insidious false claims about the pandemic

www.scientificamerican.com

Here we go again: Another study is being misrepresented as evidence that COVID vaccines cause cancer

An eminent oncologist, cancer researcher, and cancer center director is promoting a study that seems to show—but, when critically examined, doesn't—that COVID vaccines are associated with increase

sciencebasedmedicine.org

Oh for real?

Yeah, for real. What do you think I get out of our exchanges? There is no intellectual back-and-forth. There is nothing I can learn from. Best-case scenario for debating with MAGAs is that each one is another data point in a psychological case study about people that are attracted to authoritarianism. Or cults.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

Excellent point. Considering that, older people and high risk people who have multiple comorbidities are the people who should think about talking the covid vaccine. There risk benefit analysis for the healthy and young doesn't show they need the vaccine.

Funny watching two non-scientists take each other down the wrong road by agreeing with each other.

The healthy and the young also need the vaccine. The benefits FAR outweigh the risks, even for individuals, but especially because it's easier to contain and even eradicate a disease if almost everybody gets vaccinated.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

Actually today, for the vast majority of people who contract Covid, it's not a major issue. The virus has mutated down to the point that for most it's no worse than the common cold or flu. For those who have serious comorbidities, Covid is a major issue, but then so is the flu and in some cases a bad cold.

So you think that COVID has mutated "down" to a less virulent disease? If this were the case, the flu would have mutated itself "down" to the point of no longer existing. Where the f^&k do you guys get these insanely wrong science titbits fed to you?

Think about this far more logical possibility: Between infections and vaccinations, there are probably very few people who have no COVID antibodies in their bodies by now.

 

[MAGAnificent]

So you think that COVID has mutated "down" to a less virulent disease?

Obviously, it has or we would still be in a pandemic.

If this were the case, the flu would have mutated itself "down" to the point of no longer existing.

So, the 1918 Spanish flu never mutated down? Mutating down does not mean it goes completely away.

Why the 1918 Flu Pandemic Never Really Ended | HISTORY

After infecting millions of people worldwide, the 1918 flu strain shifted—and then stuck around.

www.history.com

Where the f^&k do you guys get these insanely wrong science titbits fed to you?

I think we are done here. Take care.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

Obviously, it has or we would still be in a pandemic.

So, the 1918 Spanish flu never mutated down? Mutating down does not mean it goes completely away.

Why the 1918 Flu Pandemic Never Really Ended | HISTORY

After infecting millions of people worldwide, the 1918 flu strain shifted—and then stuck around.

www.history.com

I think we are done here. Take care.

Don't want to address the fact that almost everybody has some COVID antibodies by now?

 

[MAGAnificent]

Don't want to address the fact that almost everybody has some COVID antibodies by now?

Don't want to address the fact that the now existing Covid variants are nowhere near as deadly as the first two variants, even to those who do not have Covid antibodies?

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

Don't want to address the fact that the now existing Covid variants are nowhere near as deadly as the first two variants, even to those who do not have Covid antibodies?

So who doesn't have COVID antibodies by now? Robinson Crusoe?

You cannot prove the bolded claim, yet you make it anyway. Why? What are you gaining by making claims like this? It is in everybody's interests, left, right, and center, to get the science right. That's why I ask you to think about what you are being told that disagrees with the science, and why they might be selling you this unscientific version of things. Because it is very definitely coming from the right. It's just another way to keep our teams separated even on issues that should be unanimous.

*********************

Now apply what I have explained to the Spanish Flu. No vaccines against the flu virus (they weren't even sure what was causing it - most suspected bacteria). So you only developed antibodies if you were exposed to the flu, which left a lot of gaps. That takes a lot longer for a population to develop resistance against a strain of flu that changes pretty often.

 

[MAGAnificent]

You cannot prove the bolded claim, yet you make it anyway.

And you cannot disprove it.

That's why I ask you to think about what you are being told that disagrees with the science, and why they might be selling you this unscientific version of things. Because it is very definitely coming from the right. It's just another way to keep our teams separated even on issues that should be unanimous.

So much narcissism. It's hard to take you too seriously.

Now apply what I have explained to the Spanish Flu. No vaccines against the flu virus (they weren't even sure what was causing it - most suspected bacteria). So you only developed antibodies if you were exposed to the flu, which left a lot of gaps. That takes a lot longer for a population to develop resistance against a strain of flu that changes pretty often.

Even without vaccines, the Spanish flu mutated down. Surviving the 1918 pandemic obviously resulted in antibodies much the same as vaccines do. However, the flu will never completely disappear as long as many people live in close quarters with poultry or farm animals in the third world continue to produce and spread new versions.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

And you cannot disprove it.

No, but at least I have logic on my side. Plus, I made no unprovable claims. You did. You made a positive claim, based on nothing, and presented it as fact. That's the kind of thing that leads to a lot of bad information being propagated.

So much narcissism. It's hard to take you too seriously.

How is it narcissism to ask you to critically think about your reasoning? Is it so crazy to take the side of science in the 21st century, and question why anybody would take the anti-science side?

Even without vaccines, the Spanish flu mutated down. Surviving the 1918 pandemic obviously resulted in antibodies much the same as vaccines do. However, the flu will never completely disappear as long as many people live in close quarters with poultry or farm animals in the third world continue to produce and spread new versions.

Even without vaccines, natural resistance (antibodies) grew, because people were exposed. Viruses don't "mutate down," they just mutate. And they do their mutating, and propagating, in infected humans (or other vectors). Infections decrease as a larger percentage of vectors develop immunity.

 

[NOLA Dude]

I worked in research labs for about ten years, and even did some grad school before I went into law (including a grad-level immunology course). Not an immunology expert, but I know how to read papers and interpret data. And I know crap research when I see it.

You talk a big game about being an expert, but you posts haven't demonstrated that you are any kind expert.

Jaeger (a doctor himself) was right; none of these are lies, they are just dumb misinterpretations - and probably intentional misinterpretations - of the facts. You are being manipulated by your own team, you know.

The guy who still claims the discredited Proximal Origins paper is proof that covid was zoonotic and not from a lab? Thats hilarious.

It’s telling you couldn't respond specifically to the things I pointed out they lied about during covid. Shouldn't "experts" be able to do that?

Just step back a bit and think about what you are trying to claim here; vaccines don't work, masks don't help minimize transmission, distancing isn't effective, etc. You are basically denying germ theory altogether when you make these claims.

Strawman noted. I never said no vaccines work. But the covid vaccine didn't do what they told us it would do. N95 masks help with Covid. The surgical masks are just windows dressing.

Fauci admitted the social distancing wasnt based on science. How can you defend that?

You just listed your team's weird slant on the facts. You should ask yourself what they are gaining by intentionally misleading you about COVID to your detriment. I think their calculation is that your team will garner more votes and more power if they can convince you that doctors and scientists are the bad guys, and this is all a big (worldwide) plot by the liberals to do something that should make you angry. I've seen some pretty crazy accusations coming from your side about COVID and COVID vaccines, but the really strange thing is that people seem to grab onto one and disregard the others, which gives us a bunch of people afraid of the vaccines, but for completely different reasons, none of them valid.

You stick to these vague statements. Why don't you respond more specifically to my claims? For a supposed experts you seem to be lacking on details.

COVID-19 vaccine rumors and conspiracy theories: The need for cognitive inoculation against misinformation to improve vaccine adherence - PMC

Rumors and conspiracy theories, can contribute to vaccine hesitancy. Monitoring online data related to COVID-19 vaccine candidates can track vaccine misinformation in real-time and assist in negating its impact. This study aimed to examine COVID-19 ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

That article frames legitimate worries about rushed trials & infertility risks while ignoring pharma indemnification and trial deaths.

Holly Seale (co-author) disclosed she received funding from GSK and Sanofi Pasteur for research, consulting, and advisory work. Screaming conflict of interest.

Eight Persistent COVID-19 Myths and Why People Believe Them

From a human-made virus to vaccine conspiracy theories, we rounded up the most insidious false claims about the pandemic

www.scientificamerican.com

An article from 2020? Seriously? Lets look at the first one:

○ Myths #1: The virus was engineered in a laboratory in China.

More current:

CIA now says COVID most likely originated from a lab leak but has "low confidence" in its assessment

The CIA now believes the virus responsible for the COVID-19 pandemic most likely originated from a laboratory.

www.cbsnews.com

Here we go again: Another study is being misrepresented as evidence that COVID vaccines cause cancer

An eminent oncologist, cancer researcher, and cancer center director is promoting a study that seems to show—but, when critically examined, doesn't—that COVID vaccines are associated with increase

sciencebasedmedicine.org

Gorski's claims a big Korean cohort as flawed to bury vaccine cancer signals. Gorski didn't even look at the data from the study.

He's gaslighting when he claims there wasn't a global surge in cancer deaths. Japan saw cancer deaths jump more than 10% after the vaccine was introduced. VAERS & European Medicines Agency signals align with Korea's numbers.

Yeah, for real. What do you think I get out of our exchanges? There is no intellectual back-and-forth. There is nothing I can learn from. Best-case scenario for debating with MAGAs is that each one is another data point in a psychological case study about people that are attracted to authoritarianism. Or cults.

You can't even discuss things specifically. You claim to be an expert but you hide behind vague statements.

 

[NOLA Dude]

Funny watching two non-scientists take each other down the wrong road by agreeing with each other.

You're a lawyer right?

The healthy and the young also need the vaccine. The benefits FAR outweigh the risks, even for individuals, but especially because it's easier to contain and even eradicate a disease if almost everybody gets vaccinated.

That statement is 100% wrong and if you believe that you have no idea what you are talking about.

There is no data that shows the healthy and young need the covid vaccine. If you think there is data that shows that then post a link.

 

[Fledermaus]

Librul....

 

[Fledermaus]

@NOLA Dude

Why no response?

 

[NOLA Dude]

So you think that COVID has mutated "down" to a less virulent disease? If this were the case, the flu would have mutated itself "down" to the point of no longer existing. Where the f^&k do you guys get these insanely wrong science titbits fed to you?

Think about this far more logical possibility: Between infections and vaccinations, there are probably very few people who have no COVID antibodies in their bodies by now.

Okay so you definitely aren't an expert. His post you responded to was accurate.

Covid has definitely mutated down to a less virulent disease. People aren't dying anymore from covid, they arent being put on ventilator anymore. It's like gettint the flu now. You get this so wrong while you lecture him? This is very basic and it confirms you aren't an expert.

The flu is a zoonotic beast and that's why it hasn't fallen to the same fate as Covid. Covid was created in a lab.

 

[jaeger19]

Funny watching two non-scientists take each other down the wrong road by agreeing with each other.

The healthy and the young also need the vaccine. The benefits FAR outweigh the risks, even for individuals, but especially because it's easier to contain and even eradicate a disease if almost everybody gets vaccinated.

And here is what these maga dimwits can’t get. If you vaccinate when you are healthy, your immune system does a great job granting you protection so when you get into a car wreck and you aren’t healthy, you are less likely to get a deadly Covid infection when your body is recovering from a spleen injury , or a pneumothorax or a myriad of other health conditions that suddenly put you at risk for Covid.

The other day I had an unvaccinated patient . Mid 40’s , thin and healthy never smoked, picture of health. He caught covid and ended up in the hospital and almost died of complete respiratory failure.
In the course of intubating him they found a lump in his throat and determined unbeknownst to him , he had throat cancer.
He believed the maga lie that because he “ was healthy” there was no reason to vaccinate.