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Revolution: Where? When? How? Why?

blackjack50

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I just started reading a book called "Dirty Wars" and it is pretty interesting. It goes into the scandals of our American Covert war on terror. It talks about the targeting of civilians (American citizens) and such. It doesn't target any one Administration (it is pretty damning of Chenney and Rumsfeld as well as Miss "Pass it to see what's in it" Pelosi.

Well this book got me thinking. We hear about how we have the 2nd amendment to fight the corruption. I know. Crazy right? Nobody is going to start a revolution. That is stupid. Revolution in America? Come on. We wouldn't have that now. We had the civil war in the 1860s and the 1960s were pretty turbulent. So what would it take to piss off American society enough to actually say: "Well time to start killing the politicians."

The first step will be interference. I am not talking about questionable wars. Not really even targeting civilians involved in terrorist conspiracies. I mean that the Federal government has to start actually doing this to get in the way of our lives. I mean your pursuit of happiness. Maybe raising taxes on you to an extreme? But more likely it will be ridiculous things like having to give out personal information, tests, licenses, and all kinds of excessive beuqacratic crap. And that crap needs to result in people being turned away from things they want.

So it will start with doctors, lawyers, writers/journalists, professors, and so on. The upper middle class. People with influence. Why these people? Well these people have community influence. These are the people who have employees and are active in society.

I think these people will actually have to have their lives made difficult to the point that they can no longer use the ballot box and the wallet to stop corruption. For the most part if you close your eyes for 4-8 years do you actually notice a difference between presidents? Not the Economy. The President. What about your Senators as Congressmen? Now flip back to the American revolution. Who started it? Was it a "people's" revolution? Of course. But the people were lead by the upper/upper middle class. The lawyers and the doctors and silver smiths. Back then those people were impacted by severe taxes.

Fast forward to the civil war? Who was impacted by Slave changes? Certainly not your industrialists in the North. But the land owners in the South were. People invested in slave then like stock now. So why were people upset? Money. Federal government stepping on their toes. Which people? The "land" owners. The upper middle.

If you disagree let me know. Let me know what you think is required to spark a revolution here. I'm not talking about a fringe group shooting at cops. I am talking a legitimate attempt at civil war.
 

Diving Mullah

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I just started reading a book called "Dirty Wars" and it is pretty interesting. It goes into the scandals of our American Covert war on terror. It talks about the targeting of civilians (American citizens) and such. It doesn't target any one Administration (it is pretty damning of Chenney and Rumsfeld as well as Miss "Pass it to see what's in it" Pelosi.

Well this book got me thinking. We hear about how we have the 2nd amendment to fight the corruption. I know. Crazy right? Nobody is going to start a revolution. That is stupid. Revolution in America? Come on. We wouldn't have that now. We had the civil war in the 1860s and the 1960s were pretty turbulent. So what would it take to piss off American society enough to actually say: "Well time to start killing the politicians."

The first step will be interference. I am not talking about questionable wars. Not really even targeting civilians involved in terrorist conspiracies. I mean that the Federal government has to start actually doing this to get in the way of our lives. I mean your pursuit of happiness. Maybe raising taxes on you to an extreme? But more likely it will be ridiculous things like having to give out personal information, tests, licenses, and all kinds of excessive beuqacratic crap. And that crap needs to result in people being turned away from things they want.

So it will start with doctors, lawyers, writers/journalists, professors, and so on. The upper middle class. People with influence. Why these people? Well these people have community influence. These are the people who have employees and are active in society.

I think these people will actually have to have their lives made difficult to the point that they can no longer use the ballot box and the wallet to stop corruption. For the most part if you close your eyes for 4-8 years do you actually notice a difference between presidents? Not the Economy. The President. What about your Senators as Congressmen? Now flip back to the American revolution. Who started it? Was it a "people's" revolution? Of course. But the people were lead by the upper/upper middle class. The lawyers and the doctors and silver smiths. Back then those people were impacted by severe taxes.

Fast forward to the civil war? Who was impacted by Slave changes? Certainly not your industrialists in the North. But the land owners in the South were. People invested in slave then like stock now. So why were people upset? Money. Federal government stepping on their toes. Which people? The "land" owners. The upper middle.

If you disagree let me know. Let me know what you think is required to spark a revolution here. I'm not talking about a fringe group shooting at cops. I am talking a legitimate attempt at civil war.
I'm not sure what you point was and where you going with this....

First of all Despite the NRA and other Gun manufacturing conglomerates are feeding the people (not out patriotic obligation but simply to sell more guns) 2nd Amendment is simply there for you to defend YOUR Government and NOT YOU from you Government. Reads the words carefully, it is plainly there and don't need constitutional scholar to interpreter it.

Secondly revolution is followed by change in the system of government. What are you trying to change it to? Monarchy? Parliamentary system.

Thirdly.. Let say we cleanse the Congress from all old politicians fill it with new ones, would this make it better or worst. (half the republican party got replaced by freshmen from Tea Party, the this change improve or worsen how the government works?

Beside how do you guarantee, the new will not act like the old?

I think people over react a bit.

We have all the measures needed to have a well balance and functioning government. The reason why it is broken is because Money and MONEY ALONE. Take the money out of government by fixing and having comprehensive campaign finance reform and you will solve majority of the problems that has plagued our government.

Diving Mullah
 

YoungConserv

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I'm not sure what you point was and where you going with this....

First of all Despite the NRA and other Gun manufacturing conglomerates are feeding the people (not out patriotic obligation but simply to sell more guns) 2nd Amendment is simply there for you to defend YOUR Government and NOT YOU from you Government. Reads the words carefully, it is plainly there and don't need constitutional scholar to interpreter it.

Secondly revolution is followed by change in the system of government. What are you trying to change it to? Monarchy? Parliamentary system.

Thirdly.. Let say we cleanse the Congress from all old politicians fill it with new ones, would this make it better or worst. (half the republican party got replaced by freshmen from Tea Party, the this change improve or worsen how the government works?

Beside how do you guarantee, the new will not act like the old?

I think people over react a bit.

We have all the measures needed to have a well balance and functioning government. The reason why it is broken is because Money and MONEY ALONE. Take the money out of government by fixing and having comprehensive campaign finance reform and you will solve majority of the problems that has plagued our government.

Diving Mullah
Actually if you read the works of our founders you see that second was ment to protect us from tyrannical government. In fact Thomas Jefferson once said that " the last line if defense against tyrany is a well armed civilian populace"
 

Kanstantine

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Actually if you read the works of our founders you see that second was ment to protect us from tyrannical government. In fact Thomas Jefferson once said that " the last line if defense against tyrany is a well armed civilian populace"
Guns have no morals. They can be used to fight tyranny or to maintain it.

Guns can be used to liberate a people or oppress them.
 

YoungConserv

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Guns have no morals. They can be used to fight tyranny or to maintain it.

Guns can be used to liberate a people or oppress them.
Yes and government will allways have guns so civilians need them to defend when the negative moral is used.
 

Diving Mullah

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Actually if you read the works of our founders you see that second was ment to protect us from tyrannical government. In fact Thomas Jefferson once said that " the last line if defense against tyrany is a well armed civilian populace"
First and foremost I call BULL SHAIT on that Quote. I know you can post a link that some gun nuts with fetish for penis extenders says the Jefferson Said that. But I have read every quote and every book about Jefferson...Jefferson was a very Wordy person and the first part "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms", Is direct quote from him but the Last line "Defense against tyranny is a well Armed Civilian populace". Not Jeffersony at all. It is like a 10 year old trying to imitate Shakespeare's writing. It does not have his style or use of lexicon!

For more on the matter please see.

Secondly... Occam's razor.... Here is a government born of tears, blood and countless suffering and the first or rather the second thought out of our Founding Father's mind is not protect and but how can we bring it down!?!??! Really? People are really this daft?!?!?!

Thirdly.... and most importantly....

read those beautifully elegant words so well crafted and so concise!

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.. The words and meaning are right there. You have a right to bear arms so that if needs be you can defend your Country.

really not that complicated. Try to read what it actually says not What you Want it to say!

Diving Mullah
 

YoungConserv

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First and foremost I call BULL SHAIT on that Quote. I know you can post a link that some gun nuts with fetish for penis extenders says the Jefferson Said that. But I have read every quote and every book about Jefferson...Jefferson was a very Wordy person and the first part "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms", Is direct quote from him but the Last line "Defense against tyranny is a well Armed Civilian populace". Not Jeffersony at all. It is like a 10 year old trying to imitate Shakespeare's writing. It does not have his style or use of lexicon!

For more on the matter please see.



Secondly... Occam's razor.... Here is a government born of tears, blood and countless suffering and the first or rather the second thought out of our Founding Father's mind is not protect and but how can we bring it down!?!??! Really? People are really this daft?!?!?!

Thirdly.... and most importantly....

read those beautifully elegant words so well crafted and so concise!

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.. The words and meaning are right there. You have a right to bear arms so that if needs be you can defend your Country.

really not that complicated. Try to read what it actually says not What you Want it to say!

Diving Mullah
A Free state, tyrannical leadership threatens that free state! Also Jefferson himself was for revolution saying
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.
 
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blackjack50

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I'm not sure what you point was and where you going with this....

First of all Despite the NRA and other Gun manufacturing conglomerates are feeding the people (not out patriotic obligation but simply to sell more guns) 2nd Amendment is simply there for you to defend YOUR Government and NOT YOU from you Government. Reads the words carefully, it is plainly there and don't need constitutional scholar to interpreter it.

Secondly revolution is followed by change in the system of government. What are you trying to change it to? Monarchy? Parliamentary system.

Thirdly.. Let say we cleanse the Congress from all old politicians fill it with new ones, would this make it better or worst. (half the republican party got replaced by freshmen from Tea Party, the this change improve or worsen how the government works?

Beside how do you guarantee, the new will not act like the old?

I think people over react a bit.

We have all the measures needed to have a well balance and functioning government. The reason why it is broken is because Money and MONEY ALONE. Take the money out of government by fixing and having comprehensive campaign finance reform and you will solve majority of the problems that has plagued our government.

Diving Mullah
THANK YOU for turning this into a Gun control issue. Oh Wait. Nope. Not what I was going for. If I wanted to discuss the 2nd I would have put it in the gun control forum. This is about what it would take to start a revolution in this country, and WHY would a revolution start?

Do you honestly believe that our government will never overstep some bounds? You think that voting will solve every problem in the future? It won't happen. Eventually the United States will face trouble from within. It has already happened. We collapsed into a Civil War nearly 100 years after our conception. We have experienced A LOT of turmoil in our short history. I am not saying that we won't last. I am saying that EVENTUALLY the United States will experience political upheaval and the system will be changed via something OTHER than a ballot box. I am not saying that it will happen now. Perhaps now the seeds are being sown? I don't feel that that is what is happening. Political scandals are pushing farther and farther into the Constitution though. We can fix that though.

You have more and more limits on free speech. You have wiretapping. Violations on freedom of the press. You have IRS scandals. Sure. That won't be enough to tip us over the brink. I agree. My point is that the Fed WILL over step its bounds. My point is that it won't be isolated though. The Fed will eventually do something that crosses the Middle Class (mainly upper) in a manner in which they can no longer go about their daily lives without being handcuffed (figuratively or maybe literally) by some ridiculous law. THAT will be when someone decides to do something.

Do you believe that the government will restrain itself? Give power up? That there is no eventual demise of the United States as me and you know it? I mean historically speaking...no country lasts. It changes. Everywhere. There is a radical difference even in nations as old as the UK or France. So the question is. What will do us in? I personally think that it WILL be something that the Federal government does. It won't be tomorrow. It won't be in my lifetime (24 here). But I think that if we take a lesson from history, everything is a changing, that it is certainly likely.
 

Spartacus FPV

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First and foremost I call BULL SHAIT on that Quote.
Do you call bull**** on this one? "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government.” – George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress (8 January 1790).
 

Sarcogito

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I don’t think the loss of liberties will result in a revolution in America. Americans are too comfortable. Political activists will whine and moan as liberties are stripped but as long as the average American can fill up his gas tank, watch his favorite TV shows, fiddle with his smart phone, and surf porn, enough people won’t be motivated to revolt. Think about, all this crap going on in DC, how much does it REALLY affect us in our day to day life? If you stop paying attention to the news and put your head in the sand, it is very difficult to distinguish between America pre-Patriot Act and America post-Patriot Act.

No, in order for Americans to revolt you must significantly strike at their comfort levels. If the wealth continues to pool at the top, I could see that eventually taking us there. An America with no middle class, a huge struggling lower class, and a small but super wealthy upper class is the most likely scenario in which I can see a revolution happening. It is also a quite plausible scenario.
 

Kanstantine

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There would have to be a massive and sudden loss of way of life for the middle class, for this nation to have a revolution.

We are no where near such a situation. Things are still good for too many people.
 

OldWorldOrder

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I just started reading a book called "Dirty Wars" and it is pretty interesting. It goes into the scandals of our American Covert war on terror. It talks about the targeting of civilians (American citizens) and such. It doesn't target any one Administration (it is pretty damning of Chenney and Rumsfeld as well as Miss "Pass it to see what's in it" Pelosi.

Well this book got me thinking. We hear about how we have the 2nd amendment to fight the corruption. I know. Crazy right? Nobody is going to start a revolution. That is stupid. Revolution in America? Come on. We wouldn't have that now. We had the civil war in the 1860s and the 1960s were pretty turbulent. So what would it take to piss off American society enough to actually say: "Well time to start killing the politicians."

The first step will be interference. I am not talking about questionable wars. Not really even targeting civilians involved in terrorist conspiracies. I mean that the Federal government has to start actually doing this to get in the way of our lives. I mean your pursuit of happiness. Maybe raising taxes on you to an extreme? But more likely it will be ridiculous things like having to give out personal information, tests, licenses, and all kinds of excessive beuqacratic crap. And that crap needs to result in people being turned away from things they want.

So it will start with doctors, lawyers, writers/journalists, professors, and so on. The upper middle class. People with influence. Why these people? Well these people have community influence. These are the people who have employees and are active in society.

I think these people will actually have to have their lives made difficult to the point that they can no longer use the ballot box and the wallet to stop corruption. For the most part if you close your eyes for 4-8 years do you actually notice a difference between presidents? Not the Economy. The President. What about your Senators as Congressmen? Now flip back to the American revolution. Who started it? Was it a "people's" revolution? Of course. But the people were lead by the upper/upper middle class. The lawyers and the doctors and silver smiths. Back then those people were impacted by severe taxes.

Fast forward to the civil war? Who was impacted by Slave changes? Certainly not your industrialists in the North. But the land owners in the South were. People invested in slave then like stock now. So why were people upset? Money. Federal government stepping on their toes. Which people? The "land" owners. The upper middle.

If you disagree let me know. Let me know what you think is required to spark a revolution here. I'm not talking about a fringe group shooting at cops. I am talking a legitimate attempt at civil war.
lol this is great. A++, would read again
 

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I don't believe there will be a "violent" revolution. I believe more and more people will simply opt out of the current state of affairs. I believe more and more people will cease fueling the "consumer spending" driven house of cards economy. I believe people will grow the homeschooling revolution. I believe bartering will return. I believe more and more people will return to self sufficiency. Liberal democrats are accelerating this nation into collapse. The sooner it gets here the faster a recovery can take place. I believe more and more people are reaching the point daily, it's time to change the way we live.
 

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I don't believe there will be a "violent" revolution. I believe more and more people will simply opt out of the current state of affairs. I believe more and more people will cease fueling the "consumer spending" driven house of cards economy. I believe people will grow the homeschooling revolution. I believe bartering will return. I believe more and more people will return to self sufficiency. Liberal democrats are accelerating this nation into collapse. The sooner it gets here the faster a recovery can take place. I believe more and more people are reaching the point daily, it's time to change the way we live.
You are probably right except I would include the orgy between the progressives and Wall Street cuts both ways. The only way I see a violent revolution would be if the government would turn its guns on the masses. Otherwise, it will just be more organic change of laws.
 
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Revolution ha.

Chicken hawks want war and death here now.
 

Masada

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There would have already been 3 revolutions if this were the 1800s. People, primarily because of financial comfort, accept far more government abuse than societies of centuries before. Americans, as long as they have enough money, will take a massive amount of abuse, massive amounts of government intrusion, massive losses of liberty, etc.

I believe that only a SEVERE economic depression could spark a revolution. Not a recession, but a deep, and hurtful depression. We have too many people who rely on government assistance. If that assistance ever stops, it could be a catalyst to revolution. Society DEMANDS their entitlements and money they get from the government. We see the actions on smaller scales that have the same effects as economic depressions. Katrina for instance. Many people went buck wild during Katrina, looting, robbing, killing, destroying private property, etc. Imagine catastrophic effects of a nationwide depression. We would have 50 cities on fire, and when citizens went to defend their "stuff", violence would ensue, and everything would come to a head. All the racial tension, all the class tension. I could see it happening.
 

blackjack50

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You are probably right except I would include the orgy between the progressives and Wall Street cuts both ways. The only way I see a violent revolution would be if the government would turn its guns on the masses. Otherwise, it will just be more organic change of laws.
You don't think people will shoot at politicians?
 

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You don't think people will shoot at politicians?
Random nut jobs; people trying to commit suicide by cop, but as part of a real revolution, no.
 

Kanstantine

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You don't think people will shoot at politicians?
Not unless the politicians are responsible for rampant corruption and utter failure to provide for the society's needs.

We are far from that point. But we are closer now than we were 20 years ago.
 

blackjack50

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I see a consensus forming. My line of thought was along the lines of "comfort." Doctors and lawyers will always be comfortable. That upper middle group. I think when they start to feel the pressure...that is when things will change.

I do think that that kind of pressure will result in judges and congressmen being shot at too. Police will be forced to contain riots or join them. It is interesting to say the least. It is odd that I am not being treated like a man on the corner saying, "The end is near."

It seems like people don't think it is near, but that we can see it from here.
 

Kanstantine

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I see a consensus forming. My line of thought was along the lines of "comfort." Doctors and lawyers will always be comfortable. That upper middle group. I think when they start to feel the pressure...that is when things will change.

I do think that that kind of pressure will result in judges and congressmen being shot at too. Police will be forced to contain riots or join them. It is interesting to say the least. It is odd that I am not being treated like a man on the corner saying, "The end is near."

It seems like people don't think it is near, but that we can see it from here.
You should probably avoid thinking about judges and Congressmen being shot. Such are the fantasies of an unhealthy mind.
 

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If you disagree let me know. Let me know what you think is required to spark a revolution here. I'm not talking about a fringe group shooting at cops. I am talking a legitimate attempt at civil war.

You say you want a revolution well, you know...
 

blackjack50

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Not unless the politicians are responsible for rampant corruption and utter failure to provide for the society's needs.

We are far from that point. But we are closer now than we were 20 years ago.
http://youtu.be/Ylp5iKDFe10

I think that that little push to give a nut an excuse to shoot isn't very much. A failure on the government's part? I would call that enough.
 
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