Revealed: 'Gay' plans to target 2-year-olds

[jallman]

Yes. Maybe I'm just lucky, but it's not been too difficult to get them over that stigma. Of course, being me, I never saddled them with unnecessary shame about their sexuality. I think they understand very clearly the roles that were played out and why.

More challenging issues than that have been ones related to secrecy and resentment...can't go much further without going into a lot of detail. But suffice it to say, they were around their abuser for several years after the abuse stopped. Most of their issues seem to revolve around those years when they were growing up and realizing what had happened but keeping it from me...and from each other. He was my husband. Their stepfather. Very common scenario.

I'm talking too much. But then, I do that.

I couldn't imagine if it had been an adult. The guy that I have been talking about was just a kid in the neighborhood who cut our grass. As a matter of fact, he cut most of the yards in the neighborhood.

Your children are very lucky to have a mother as even tempered and devoted to their well-being as you are.

 

[mixedmedia]

I couldn't imagine if it had been an adult. The guy that I have been talking about was just a kid in the neighborhood who cut our grass. As a matter of fact, he cut most of the yards in the neighborhood.

Your children are very lucky to have a mother as even tempered and devoted to their well-being as you are.

The man who abused their stepfather when he was a child was also, I think, 17 or 18 years old (and heterosexual may it be noted). His cousin.

You broke the cycle of abuse. :2wave:

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

But I do think it is of note that it is not an illogical jump to "I wanted it" for victims of any sexual crime. We are talking about what is normally a pleasurable human instinct that has been mutated into a subversive and sometimes violent violation on so many levels. I think the whole "maybe I wanted it" is a coping mechanism that mitigates the victimhood of it all for a while until the mind is prepared to examine the magnitude and disappointment of what actually happened.

I'm not sure that made any sense...but it's the best articulation I can come up with.

This actually creates some of the cognitive dissonance around rape or molestation. I had a girl that was molested by her stepbrother when she was 5. She remembered, distinctly feeling 'aroused', and enjoying the physical act, even though, emotionally she felt confused and scared. This was very difficult for her to deal with and one of the things I had to go over with her, was normal human sexual response to stimulation. It is not unusual for one to get aroused in situations like this. It, IN NO WAY, and I can't stress that enough, means that the victim 'wanted it'. Often this stigma is very difficult to overcome, understanding the difference between an involuntary sexual response and what is actually happening. The girl I spoke of, did, but it took us about 18 months for her to be able to.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

The man who abused their stepfather when he was a child was also, I think, 17 or 18 years old (and heterosexual may it be noted). His cousin.

You broke the cycle of abuse. :2wave:

And you helped your daughters do the same.

 

[Gunface]

It can be hugfest time now?

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Yes. Maybe I'm just lucky, but it's not been too difficult to get them over that stigma. Of course, being me, I never saddled them with unnecessary shame about their sexuality. I think they understand very clearly the roles that were played out and why.

More challenging issues than that have been ones related to secrecy and resentment...can't go much further without going into a lot of detail. But suffice it to say, they were around their abuser for several years after the abuse stopped. Most of their issues seem to revolve around those years when they were growing up and realizing what had happened but keeping it from me...and from each other. He was my husband. Their stepfather. Very common scenario.

I'm talking too much. But then, I do that.

Support is key in these situations. I could tell you terrible stories of lack of support when a child has been abused, stories that would make your blood boil and your hair stand on end. Your support assisted your daughters in healing.

I can't imagine what this situation must have been like for you. Though I've heard stories like yours several times in the past, it doesn't change my admiration for the strength of some in dealing with it.

 

[jallman]

The man who abused their stepfather when he was a child was also, I think, 17 or 18 years old (and heterosexual may it be noted). His cousin.

You broke the cycle of abuse. :2wave:

Yeah, the guy I am talking about was being at least physically abused by both his mother and his father. It was not uncommon to hear screaming coming from their home when we would ride past on our bicycles. If I am recalling correctly, it was usually around the times of these incidences that his predations would shortly follow. This, in and of itself, tells me that it was a cyclical issue and that while this does nothing to excuse his actions, it does explain them in a way.

Today, I actually feel a deep sympathy for the guy because it is obvious that he was born weak and incapable of or had his ability stripped to deal with adversity.

 

[jallman]

It can be hugfest time now?

HUGS!!!! :2wave:

 

[Gunface]

Today, I actually feel a deep sympathy for the guy because it is obvious that he was born weak and incapable of or had his ability stripped to deal with adversity.

It speaks a lot of your character that you can feel sympathy and pain for him.

 

[mixedmedia]

Support is key in these situations. I could tell you terrible stories of lack of support when a child has been abused, stories that would make your blood boil and your hair stand on end. Your support assisted your daughters in healing.

I can't imagine what this situation must have been like for you. Though I've heard stories like yours several times in the past, it doesn't change my admiration for the strength of some in dealing with it.

Yes, and I have heard of terrible stories from men and women who have been abused who did not have the support of their families and it does make my blood boil.

The stigma surrounding sexual abuse can be almost as damaging as the abuse itself.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

CC <---------
jallman <--------- :2grouphug
mixedmedia <-----
gunface<---------

 

[jallman]

It speaks a lot of your character that you can feel sympathy and pain for him.

Thank you very much, but when I say I feel sympathy, please don't confuse that with empathy. His character is still such a foreign concept to me that I am loathe to believe he is anything but a monster at heart. But I do believe monsters are not born; they are created.

 

[Gunface]

Thank you very much, but when I say I feel sympathy, please don't confuse that with empathy. His character is still such a foreign concept to me that I am loathe to believe he is anything but a monster at heart. But I do believe monsters are not born; they are created.

I'm not gonna confuse the two at all. He's obviously not an okay person, and to assume he isn't "bad" just because his upbringing might have molded him into what he is would be foolish.

But that you don't go around saying "I hate this *sshole, I hope he rots in hell for all eternity, **** him." still says a lot. XD

 

[mixedmedia]

Yeah, the guy I am talking about was being at least physically abused by both his mother and his father. It was not uncommon to hear screaming coming from their home when we would ride past on our bicycles. If I am recalling correctly, it was usually around the times of these incidences that his predations would shortly follow. This, in and of itself, tells me that it was a cyclical issue and that while this does nothing to excuse his actions, it does explain them in a way.

Today, I actually feel a deep sympathy for the guy because it is obvious that he was born weak and incapable of or had his ability stripped to deal with adversity.

I know exactly what you mean.

 

[jallman]

I'm not gonna confuse the two at all. He's obviously not an okay person, and to assume he isn't "bad" just because his upbringing might have molded him into what he is would be foolish.

But that you don't go around saying "I hate this *sshole, I hope he rots in hell for all eternity, **** him." still says a lot. XD

There are much more worthy objects of my disdain. For instance, ignorant jacka$$es who would try to compare people like me with people like him. There is no one to blame but them for remaining uneducated screw ups.

 

[mixedmedia]

Thank you very much, but when I say I feel sympathy, please don't confuse that with empathy. His character is still such a foreign concept to me that I am loathe to believe he is anything but a monster at heart. But I do believe monsters are not born; they are created.

Yes, I have empathy for my ex, I realize that there were forces acting on him mentally that thoroughly warped his decision-making. I don't wish him any harm. But, I am also quite alright with him spending the next 18 years in prison...well, the next 16 1/2 years now.

I'm not apt to believe in monsters, but I do believe in accountability.

 

[jallman]

Yes, I have empathy for my ex, I realize that there were forces acting on him mentally that thoroughly warped his decision-making. I don't wish him any harm. But, I am also quite alright with him spending the next 18 years in prison...well, the next 16 1/2 years now.

I'm not apt to believe in monsters, but I do believe in accountability.

Wow, so this is still kinda fresh with you. I have to say that your ability to cope with this and to set your outrage aside when discussing it is remarkable. It took me near 15 years to acheive any sense of how to deal with it. I bottled it in and internalized it until I was ready to speak at all on the topic.

You and your daughters are truly people of great character.

 

[mixedmedia]

Wow, so this is still kinda fresh with you. I have to say that your ability to cope with this and to set your outrage aside when discussing it is remarkable. It took me near 15 years to acheive any sense of how to deal with it. I bottled it in and internalized it until I was ready to speak at all on the topic.

You and your daughters are truly people of great character.

Well, we come from a long line of strong women who talk a lot, lol.

I don't know about great character. We're pretty normal. Mostly I just feel lucky. Just so lucky that we got out of that situation and that my girls show no signs of self-destructive behavior patterns. I just feel lucky.

Did I mention that I feel lucky? sheesh...I should go to bed, lol.

 

[jallman]

Well, we come from a long line of strong women who talk a lot, lol.

I don't know about great character. We're pretty normal. Mostly I just feel lucky. Just so lucky that we got out of that situation and that my girls show no signs of self-destructive behavior patterns. I just feel lucky.

Did I mention that I feel lucky? sheesh...I should go to bed, lol.

Yeah, me too. I am starting to feel a bit weird about having talked so much. However, I would like to thank you, gunface, and the good Cap'n for the conversation. It proves to me that there are some good connections that we make in these discussions. Everyone, be well.

HUGS to all.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

It may be because I see so much of it, and work through so much of the anguish with my clients, that I have no sympathy for the molesters, at all. They disgust me, and they are the one type of person I cannot work with, simply because I have no desire to help them. If I wouldn't get caught, I would have no problem putting a bullet in each of their heads.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I, too, must take my leave. I must deal with a tree that fell on my house earlier this evening...fortunately it doesn't seen to have created any damage. Tree guy in the early morning, however.

Be well, all.

 

[Gunface]

It may be because I see so much of it, and work through so much of the anguish with my clients, that I have no sympathy for the molesters, at all. They disgust me, and they are the one type of person I cannot work with, simply because I have no desire to help them. If I wouldn't get caught, I would have no problem putting a bullet in each of their heads.

This doesn't seem like a very high note with which to end this discussion, so I'll go ahead and say that I'm very thankful I haven't had to deal with any of this in my life. This discussion has shown me how much I appreciate the safety I've grown up with.

Yep, good night everyone. *pretends to go to sleep but doesn't, really*

 

[mixedmedia]

Goodnight, you princes of Maine, you kings of New England.

:mrgreen:

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

This doesn't seem like a very high note with which to end this discussion, so I'll go ahead and say that I'm very thankful I haven't had to deal with any of this in my life. This discussion has shown me how much I appreciate the safety I've grown up with.

A good point, and I appologize for the downer. On the upside, I have seen amazing resilience of people who have been harmed. It always makes me impressed with the power of the human spirit. I have seen so many do so well after many bad things. They always can find the things in their lives that they can be thankful for and can do well for themselves.

I hope that was better.

Yep, good night everyone. *pretends to go to sleep but doesn't, really*

Be well. And nice to see you back, here.

 

[The silenced majority]

My memory is fine. It is easy to remember arguments I've won, when the opposing side presented a position of made up nonsense.

The only nonsense is California sb777 and the supplemental bills attached to it.

The OP that you adhered to was from a crackpot organization that posts nothing by crackpot, hyperbolic, hysterical, lunatic rantings that have no basis in reality.

WND & the others claimed that new legislation signed by Schwarzenegger would drive anything out of the classroom that could be deemed offensive to homosexual and transgendered students.

This opinion caused you and the others to make your wild charges of Homophobia, bigotry and hysteria.

It looks like EQCA (Equality California(hardly a group that would ally itself with WND)) agrees:

"sb777 prohibits curriculum that is discriminatorily biased against LGBT people and other protected groups."

link

***<<<please note the RED clinched fist>>>***

You could not refute the research that Simon and I presented, and, because that really sucked for you and your position. Research was used to support the bill. It was accepted because it was valid. I know that you want this to not be true, but it is. Sorry.

A survey? Where's the actual hard evidence that something discriminatory being taught in the California public schools that would at least demonstrate need for this bill?

The only thing Simon & you could say was to the effect that it's the voters' choice in that area as to who they elect and the legislation that goes along with it.

...par for course for the bay-side of California I say...

It includes LGBT issues to prevent discrimination. Inclusive, as I have said. You can try to twist this, but all your doing is twisting a noose around your position.

Why are gay rights (read Marxist) groups touting sb777 as a victory because it: "prohibits curriculum that is discriminatorily biased against LGBT people and other protected groups.", then??

If this bill was about being inclusionary, where is the evidence of the "discriminatorily biased" material that either 1.) was being taught in the California public schools, or 2.)was being suggested by some as something that should be taught in the California public schools, that these "gay rights" groups (the one's who had Sheila Keuhl's ear and pressed for this bill), are talking about????

Another demand to threadjack. This was explained to you in the other thread. It is not my fault if you refuse to believe reality.

I'd say this topic was thread-jacked in post one when the original OP created some wild assertion involving pedophilia as to why WND objected to SB777.

Another one who would prefer to stay with his myopic little position even after it has been refuted and shown to be nonsense. No integrity or credibility. Shame. There have been times I have agreed with you and enjoyed your posts.

I'm not myopic.

I see way past any political groups that covet & stoke my indignation for their own expedient political gains...