Republicans have a real Dilemna

[lpast]

This is not an attack the GOP thread. Its a discussion that the country needs to have, how do we fix the debt problem.
In my mind there are two approachs that are non starters and wouldnt work anyway.

1. Tax Cuts for the Rich
2. Not trimming entitlements

They both must be done in a reasonable manner. Ive read that the entire defict scream is nonesense and just like in the clinton years with the tech bubble as soon as the economy rolls the tax revenue will flourish. I believe that is partially true. If we raise taxs and cut entitlements reasonably without hurting people then a boost in the economy with increased tax income...could fix this problem.

This is one poll on battleground states <most important> and how the people fall on taxs and cuts.


Battleground Poll: Hike taxes on rich - James Hohmann - POLITICO.com

 

[blaxshep]

Tax hikes on the rich will get you enough revenue to run the governmnet for a week, what do you plan to do for the remaining 51 weeks?

The dilemma belongs to the liberals that have promised the people without the funds to deliver on them.

 

[Samhain]

We currently are spending 24% of GDP while collecting 17% of GDP. The average spending over the last 40 years is 18.5%, while the average for revenue is 19%.

We can certainly raise tax rates a little in an attempt to increase revenue, however it should be glaringly obvious that we have a spending problem. We should have actually frozen federal spending @ 2007 rates(against GDP) 4 years ago, but pegging to those rates now would be about a trillion in cuts, which isn't going to happen. Starting with an immediate freeze on spending increases along with entitlement reform should help in both the short term and long term.

 

[Fletch]

This is not an attack the GOP thread. Its a discussion that the country needs to have, how do we fix the debt problem.
In my mind there are two approachs that are non starters and wouldnt work anyway.

1. Tax Cuts for the Rich
2. Not trimming entitlements

They both must be done in a reasonable manner. Ive read that the entire defict scream is nonesense and just like in the clinton years with the tech bubble as soon as the economy rolls the tax revenue will flourish. I believe that is partially true. If we raise taxs and cut entitlements reasonably without hurting people then a boost in the economy with increased tax income...could fix this problem.

This is one poll on battleground states <most important> and how the people fall on taxs and cuts.


Battleground Poll: Hike taxes on rich - James Hohmann - POLITICO.com

I dont see how this is a republican problem. Even if republicans cave (which they will) and give Obama the tax increae he so desperately wants, we will have simply thrown $80 billion at a trillion dollar problem. To put that $80 billion in context, we ran a budget deficit of $120 billion last month. This is an American problem where Americans have to confront the fact that they wants lots of things from government but dont want to pay for them. Since the easiest thingfor politicians to do is kick the can down the road, expect to see that happen. But sooner or later we will run out of road, and when we do, it will be the middle classand the poor that will suffer the most. Politically it will be like musical chairs. Whoever is in the White House when the music stops will get the blame. And so will his paty.

 

[Fenton]

This is not an attack the GOP thread. Its a discussion that the country needs to
have, how do we fix the debt problem.
In my mind there are two approachs that are non starters and wouldnt work anyway.

1. Tax Cuts for the Rich
2. Not trimming entitlements

They both must be done in a reasonable manner. Ive read that the entire defict scream is nonesense and just like in the clinton years with the tech bubble as soon as the economy rolls the tax revenue will flourish. I believe that is partially true. If we raise taxs and cut entitlements reasonably without hurting people then a boost in the economy with increased tax income...could fix this problem.

This is one poll on battleground states <most important> and how the people fall on taxs and cuts.


Battleground Poll: Hike taxes on rich - James Hohmann - POLITICO.com

The GOP has a problem ? Nah, I dont think so. Obama has a problem and quit posting left wing links like politico.

The Dems have no plan to fix this mess and liberals re-elected them. This fiscal cliff is due to their incompetence but is being blamed on the right ? Please....

Just a few up ticks in the interest rates which is inevitable and its all she wrote as a extra Trillion or more is added to our expenses each year.

Yup. This is Obamas disaster and raising taxes just hastens it so good luck guys. Idiots all across America doubled down on stupid.

And with Democrat control it will be Obamas legacy. Blaming this on Bush ? Pathetic.

 

[sawyerloggingon]

Who exactly is proposing tax cuts on the rich?

 

[Tonawanda]

It's in the Republicans court now. I propose that they give Obama the taxes he wants, or even increase the % of wealthy taxpayers, adding more revenue to their plan. After a show of good faith, they can insist on reasonable reform/spending cuts and the ball will end up where it should be. After that "tax the rich" mantra is neutralized, the public may expect a reasonable compromise from him.

 

[jonny5]

This is not an attack the GOP thread. Its a discussion that the country needs to have, how do we fix the debt problem.
In my mind there are two approachs that are non starters and wouldnt work anyway.

1. Tax Cuts for the Rich
2. Not trimming entitlements

They both must be done in a reasonable manner. Ive read that the entire defict scream is nonesense and just like in the clinton years with the tech bubble as soon as the economy rolls the tax revenue will flourish. I believe that is partially true. If we raise taxs and cut entitlements reasonably without hurting people then a boost in the economy with increased tax income...could fix this problem.

This is one poll on battleground states <most important> and how the people fall on taxs and cuts.


Battleground Poll: Hike taxes on rich - James Hohmann - POLITICO.com

The only dilemma is ideologically. Do republicans care more about popularity or principle? Obviously its not much of a dilemma. They care more about popularity, and it would take a big change in thinking to shift that over to principle.

THis isnt the same as clinton years though. Tax revenues are at 16% of gpd. Spending is at 25% of gdp. During clinton years, spending was only at 20% of GDP, and revenue was 18%. So even if revenues come back up to normal levels, spending is still 5% too high.

 

[MaggieD]

This is not an attack the GOP thread. Its a discussion that the country needs to have, how do we fix the debt problem.
In my mind there are two approachs that are non starters and wouldnt work anyway.

1. Tax Cuts for the Rich
2. Not trimming entitlements

They both must be done in a reasonable manner. Ive read that the entire defict scream is nonesense and just like in the clinton years with the tech bubble as soon as the economy rolls the tax revenue will flourish. I believe that is partially true. If we raise taxs and cut entitlements reasonably without hurting people then a boost in the economy with increased tax income...could fix this problem.

This is one poll on battleground states <most important> and how the people fall on taxs and cuts.


Battleground Poll: Hike taxes on rich - James Hohmann - POLITICO.com

I have no problem with raising tax rates (reasonably) on people earning more than $250K a year. I think our Republican Congress is off the rails here. I also think they should be proposing those entitlement cuts they're demanding. Until they do that, they're part of the problem...which, of course, they are.

 

[johnny_rebson]

The only dilemma is ideologically. Do republicans care more about popularity or principle? Obviously its not much of a dilemma. They care more about popularity, and it would take a big change in thinking to shift that over to principle.

We also can't give Obama anything to hang his hat on. Obama doesn't deserve a decent legacy.

 

[Fenton]

It's in the Republicans court now. I propose that they give Obama the
taxes he wants, or even increase the % of wealthy taxpayers, adding more revenue to their plan. After a show of good faith, they can insist on reasonable reform/spending cuts and the ball will end up where it should be. After that "tax the rich" mantra is neutralized, the public may expect a reasonable compromise from him.

After a show of good faith ? From whom ?

You cant trust a Washington De.ocrat as far as you can throw them. Give them their tax increases and your getting squat back in way of entitlment reform .

Obama only talks about entitlment reform rhetorically.

Thats it.

 

[Tonawanda]

After a show of good faith ? From whom ?

You cant trust a Washington De.ocrat as far as you can throw them. Give them their tax increases and your getting squat back in way of entitlment reform .

Obama only talks about entitlment reform rhetorically. Thats it.

Well, the plan would be to have a signed sealed agreement/contract before instituting changes. And, you are right, promises mean nothing at this level of government.

 

[Mycroft]

I don't see this as only a GOP problem, though the Democrats have certainly propagandized the issue enough to put Republicans on the defensive with the public.

I like Charles Krauthammer's suggestion:

What should Republicans do? Stop giving stuff away. If Obama remains intransigent, let him be the one to take us over the cliff. And then let the new House, which is sworn in weeks before the president, immediately introduce and pass a full across-the-board restoration of the Bush tax cuts.

Obama will counter with the usual all-but-the-rich tax cut - as the markets gyrate and the economy begins to wobble under his feet.

Result? We're back to square one, but with a more level playing field. The risk to Obama will be rising and the debt ceiling will be looming. Most important of all, however, Republicans will still be in possession of their unity, their self-respect - and their trousers.
Charles Krauthammer: Fiscal cliff fight just an Obama power play - LA Daily News

 

[Born Free]

This is not an attack the GOP thread. Its a discussion that the country needs to have, how do we fix the debt problem.
In my mind there are two approachs that are non starters and wouldnt work anyway.

1. Tax Cuts for the Rich
2. Not trimming entitlements

They both must be done in a reasonable manner. Ive read that the entire defict scream is nonesense and just like in the clinton years with the tech bubble as soon as the economy rolls the tax revenue will flourish. I believe that is partially true. If we raise taxs and cut entitlements reasonably without hurting people then a boost in the economy with increased tax income...could fix this problem.

This is one poll on battleground states <most important> and how the people fall on taxs and cuts.


Battleground Poll: Hike taxes on rich - James Hohmann - POLITICO.com

This is a democrat problem, they want to raise taxes on the rich, fine, that brings in maybe 800 billion over 10 yrs, Obama borrows every yr 1.2 trillion, so after the tax hikes go into effect he will only have to borrow 1.1 trillion. Thus this is Democrat problem, they own this spending like never seen in US history.

 

[wolfman24]

It's in the Republicans court now. I propose that they give Obama the taxes he wants, or even increase the % of wealthy taxpayers, adding more revenue to their plan. After a show of good faith, they can insist on reasonable reform/spending cuts and the ball will end up where it should be. After that "tax the rich" mantra is neutralized, the public may expect a reasonable compromise from him.

Interesting Idea

 

[jonny5]

We also can't give Obama anything to hang his hat on. Obama doesn't deserve a decent legacy.

Thats more about popularity than principle. I personally dont care if people like Obama or dislike Republicans for holding the line against govt. Republicans should do whats in the best interests of the citizens to protect their life and liberty, and in this case that means doing nothing which will allow for more govt. They cant stop taxes from going up, but they can stop spending.

 

[Joe51]

This is a democrat problem, they want to raise taxes on the rich, fine, that brings in maybe 800 billion over 10 yrs, Obama borrows every yr 1.2 trillion, so after the tax hikes go into effect he will only have to borrow 1.1 trillion. Thus this is Democrat problem, they own this spending like never seen in US history.

conceding the fact that raising taxes doesn't solve the problem, I still fail to see why it cannot/should not be part of the solution. If the conservative line is not to add any new revenue and to make all changes to the tax code revenue neutral, the right isn't seriously looking at the problem either.

I don't think you'll find a Dem who says that raising tax rates cures the problem. I think you'll find many who say that we should all share in the coming tightening of the belt.

Where are the top earners expected to tighten if conservatives get their way? They're not. According to the right, those guys are hands off and the rest of us should deal with what we get, so we can give the top earners what they need in order to take care of us. I think it's time to call BS on this line of thinking. We've gone all in on that line of thinking (2000's), and got less than nothing to show for it.

 

[RLWSNOOK]

This is not an attack the GOP thread. Its a discussion that the country needs to have, how do we fix the debt problem.
In my mind there are two approachs that are non starters and wouldnt work anyway.

1. Tax Cuts for the Rich
2. Not trimming entitlements

They both must be done in a reasonable manner. Ive read that the entire defict scream is nonesense and just like in the clinton years with the tech bubble as soon as the economy rolls the tax revenue will flourish. I believe that is partially true. If we raise taxs and cut entitlements reasonably without hurting people then a boost in the economy with increased tax income...could fix this problem.

This is one poll on battleground states <most important> and how the people fall on taxs and cuts.


Battleground Poll: Hike taxes on rich - James Hohmann - POLITICO.com

I don't see the problem..

Republicans are for having the wealthy pay 800 billion more in taxes by closing loopholes and deductions so they pay closer to the 35% rate...

Democrats are for raising tax rates which will not effect the wealthy as the wealthy will use deductions and lower their tax rate to that of the AMT ie 28%. Raising rates only raise more taxes if you remove loopholes and deductions.

So in truth Democrats are only for symbolically asking the wealthy to pay more, in fact are not asking for any new revenue.

And the Republicans are asking the Wealthy actually pay more in taxes...

So I think the problem is not with the republicans but actually with the democrats... But if you listen to talking points (from both sides) I'm sure you will not think this is the case...

 

[Mycroft]

1. conceding the fact that raising taxes doesn't solve the problem, I still fail to see why it cannot/should not be part of the solution. If the conservative line is not to add any new revenue and to make all changes to the tax code revenue neutral, the right isn't seriously looking at the problem either.

2. I don't think you'll find a Dem who says that raising tax rates cures the problem. I think you'll find many who say that we should all share in the coming tightening of the belt.

3. Where are the top earners expected to tighten if conservatives get their way? They're not. According to the right, those guys are hands off and the rest of us should deal with what we get, so we can give the top earners what they need in order to take care of us. I think it's time to call BS on this line of thinking. We've gone all in on that line of thinking (2000's), and got less than nothing to show for it.

1. If raising taxes doesn't solve the problem, then why do it? Why should it be part of the solution? I suspect the only reason Democrats want to raise taxes is to have more money to spend. In regard to the conservative line, they sure are seriously looking at the problem...but they are more concerned with the spending side of the problem. I agree with them: Fix the spending and then...if necessary...look at taxes (at all levels).

2. What tightening of the belt? Are the Democrats proposing any real spending cuts?

3. The Republicans have never said that top earners were hands off and they will be doing their part by having their deductions and loopholes removed.

The 2000's really had no proposals even similar to what the Republicans are coming out with now. On the other hand, the Democrats have continued to ask for nothing but tax and spending increases. Perhaps it's time THEY start to seriously look at the problem.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Democrats are for raising tax rates which will not effect the wealthy as the wealthy will use deductions and lower their tax rate to that of the AMT ie 28%.

So are you arguing that the top 2% are not using the loopholes that exist currently....or that new deductions will introduced with the sun-setting of the current rate?

Raising rates only raise more taxes if you remove loopholes and deductions.

False, absolutely. If the income level and deductions allowed are constant, then raising the marginal rate absolutely increases revenue.

 

[lpast]

I dont see how this is a republican problem. Even if republicans cave (which they will) and give Obama the tax increae he so desperately wants, we will have simply thrown $80 billion at a trillion dollar problem. To put that $80 billion in context, we ran a budget deficit of $120 billion last month. This is an American problem where Americans have to confront the fact that they wants lots of things from government but dont want to pay for them. Since the easiest thingfor politicians to do is kick the can down the road, expect to see that happen. But sooner or later we will run out of road, and when we do, it will be the middle classand the poor that will suffer the most. Politically it will be like musical chairs. Whoever is in the White House when the music stops will get the blame. And so will his paty.

They have serious problems that they can iron out...if they dont allow a shoving match within the party which is already occurring btw.
They have to somehow find a balance between the teaparty and the tradtionals that is going to include all the things the teaparty is totally against...raising tax and compromise with democrats and they have to keep in mind all the poll numbers are a negative for what the teaparty wants.

Sen Corker announced that allowing tax increases was the best way the GOP could go and then work on some entitlment reforms...he and many other GOP feel that way and they imo are right

 

[Mycroft]

They have serious problems that they can iron out...if they dont allow a shoving match within the party which is already occurring btw.
They have to somehow find a balance between the teaparty and the tradtionals that is going to include all the things the teaparty is totally against...raising tax and compromise with democrats and they have to keep in mind all the poll numbers are a negative for what the teaparty wants.

Sen Corker announced that allowing tax increases was the best way the GOP could go and then work on some entitlment reforms...he and many other GOP feel that way and they imo are right

And Corker is making the same mistake that Republicans have made twice before.

Never, never, EVER trust the Democrats if they say they'll cut spending in return for a tax hike.

 

[lpast]

I have no problem with raising tax rates (reasonably) on people earning more than $250K a year. I think our Republican Congress is off the rails here. I also think they should be proposing those entitlement cuts they're demanding. Until they do that, they're part of the problem...which, of course, they are.

I agree I agree I agree...reasonable hikes reasonable cuts..some loopholes closed is the way to go

 

[lpast]

I don't see the problem..

Republicans are for having the wealthy pay 800 billion more in taxes by closing loopholes and deductions so they pay closer to the 35% rate...

Democrats are for raising tax rates which will not effect the wealthy as the wealthy will use deductions and lower their tax rate to that of the AMT ie 28%. Raising rates only raise more taxes if you remove loopholes and deductions.

So in truth Democrats are only for symbolically asking the wealthy to pay more, in fact are not asking for any new revenue.

And the Republicans are asking the Wealthy actually pay more in taxes...

So I think the problem is not with the republicans but actually with the democrats... But if you listen to talking points (from both sides) I'm sure you will not think this is the case...

I dont know how you got that from the numbers presented...but lets say your right...the american people arent agreeing with you and that in itself is a dilemna...
The republicans are doing everything they can to protect the rich and the democrats are doing everything they can to protect everyone else.....nothing new there but this time the american people have made an overwhelming decision

 

[head of joaquin]

Tax hikes on the rich will get you enough revenue to run the governmnet for a week, what do you plan to do for the remaining 51 weeks?

The dilemma belongs to the liberals that have promised the people without the funds to deliver on them.

RIGHTWING FRAUD ALERT!

Nobody is proposing solving the Bush Debt Legacy in one year by raising taxes on the top bracket. But raising revenues by increased taxes on people who have lots of money is part of the longterm solution (along with growth and slashing the wasteful deadweight of military spending).

So why do you keep repeating this stupid talking point?

Oh I forgot -- your brain on Obamaphobia