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Reports: Bush to replace top generals

CurrentAffairs said:
No need to spin the discussion away from your original assertion. Bush has not said or implied that, regardless of success or disappointment, that he plans to remain in Iraq for the remainder of his term. To say otherwise is to spin his words beyond recognition.

The issue of what constitues victory or "how do you go to war against the notion of terror, etc, is for another debate and in another thread.
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But see....I'm not spinning it away the the assertion....I believe that Bush knows that he cannot achieve "Victory" in Iraq. I believe that he intends fully to stay in Iraq until he leaves despite the fact that he knows it will cost more Americans their lives....because he really has two options at this point. Admit he was wrong and find an exit strategy OR stay in Iraq until someone else takes office and then when we leave he can say it wasn't because of him....thus "We will stay in Iraq as long as I am commander in chief"....implying.....another commander in chief might "cut and run" but not me.
I don't think that anyone in the administration believes "Victory" is achievable or even knows what Victory would mean. What is Victory in Iraq? We are now in the middle of a civil war where both sides dislike us....how do you win in that battle? Please....I don't have the answers....if you do....please share.
 
26 X World Champs said:
Here's the deal on good old George firing his two generals in Iraq....
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another Champs opinion.....

26 X World Champs said:
ABC News took a poll today and 57 of the 100 Senators said that if they knew then what they know now they would not have voted for the war!
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Knowing what he knows now, perhaps the President wouldn't either...but we're there. Your armchair presidency - complete with hindsight - is silly, Champs.
 
disneydude said:
I believe that Bush knows that he cannot achieve "Victory" in Iraq. I believe that he intends fully to stay in Iraq until he leaves .
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Exactly, that's what you believe. It's your opinion, and that's fine. But nothing the President said led you to that belief.
 
CurrentAffairs said:
Exactly, that's what you believe. It's your opinion, and that's fine. But nothing the President said led you to that belief.
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To the contrary....everything that GWB has said in combination with his actions in combination with Cheney/Rumsfields intentions for decades lead me to this belief.
True...it is my opinion. But it is an opinion that I believe is widely supported by the history of this administration.
 
disneydude said:
To the contrary....everything that GWB has said in combination with his actions in combination with Cheney/Rumsfields intentions for decades lead me to this belief.
True...it is my opinion. But it is an opinion that I believe is widely supported by the history of this administration.
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Fine, but now you're changing your tune. First it was Bush said/implied it... Now you're saying that the history of the administrations actions lead you to believe... Which story do you want to tell?
 
disneydude said:
Doesn't "Mission Accomplished" imply "Victory" to you.
I think it does to most Americans. Oh.. wait...."Link please" for most Americans?
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Do you really want to go down this road, disney? I made mincemeat out of Iriemon yesterday on this exact debate. If you don't know what the Mission Accomplished banner was for, then you better do some research before you say any more.
 
CurrentAffairs said:
Fine, but now you're changing your tune. First it was Bush said/implied it... Now you're saying that the history of the administrations actions lead you to believe... Which story do you want to tell?
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Read the post more carefully. I said
Everything that GWB has said in combination with"......
They are not mutually exclusive.
I think that Bush knew full well that we are not leaving Iraq before the end of his reign when he made the comment.....and this is because of other things he has said and the actions of his two right hands.
 
CurrentAffairs said:
Do you really want to go down this road, disney? I made mincemeat out of Iriemon yesterday on this exact debate. If you don't know what the Mission Accomplished banner was for, then you better do some research before you say any more.
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I have heard you say similar things like "I made mincemeat out of...." before when it was clear that you hadn't...I can't speak for the exact debate you have with Iriemon because I didn't follow it....but I do know that you (like your Hero GWB) have a habit of claiming "Victory"...when I really don't think that either of you know what Victory really means.
 
disneydude said:
I have heard you say similar things like "I made mincemeat out of...." before when it was clear that you hadn't...I can't speak for the exact debate you have with Iriemon because I didn't follow it....but I do know that you (like your Hero GWB) have a habit of claiming "Victory"...when I really don't think that either of you know what Victory really means.
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Alright, can't say I didn't warn you. Tell us what you know about Mission Accomplished.
 
CurrentAffairs said:
another Champs opinion.....
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Right and it also happens to be the opinion of people who do not kiss Bush's as$ the way some of you do in this forum.

Let's review for you again since the first post didn't seem to be comprehended by you. Bush's general's say they don't want a surge...Bush fire's his generals. Bush until then said he listens to his generals and does what they suggest...until they disagree with him and then he fires them...

Share with us what about this simple paragraph is beyond your intellectual capabilities? Does Bush listen to his generals or not?
CurrentAffairs said:
Knowing what he knows now, perhaps the President wouldn't either...but we're there. Your armchair presidency - complete with hindsight - is silly, Champs.
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Yeah right...or actually...WRONG...AGAIN!

Bush manipulated the intelligence only sharing with the American public and the Senate the portions that furthered his cause and ignored and buried the intelligence that shot holes in his argument so when we say "if we knew then what we know now" it doesn't reflect hindsight it reflects that the truth was revealed and the truth include Bush's manipulations...DUH!:shock:
 
CurrentAffairs said:
Alright, can't say I didn't warn you. Tell us what you know about Mission Accomplished.
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I reviewed your postings for the last three days.....couldn't find anything about "Mission Accomplished" or Mincemeat.
 
26 X World Champs said:
Bush manipulated the intelligence only sharing with the American public and the Senate the portions that furthered his cause and ignored and buried the intelligence that shot holes in his argument :
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Well then, that would be grounds for impeachment, removal from office and perhaps jail. I wonder why that idea has already been dropped by the new democratic Congress?
 
disneydude said:
I reviewed your postings for the last three days.....couldn't find anything about "Mission Accomplished" or Mincemeat.
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Come on, answer the question. Why do you think the mission accomplished banner is the same as Bush declaring victory in Iraq?
 
CurrentAffairs said:
Alright, can't say I didn't warn you. Tell us what you know about Mission Accomplished.
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Well....I know that it was another Bush Guffaw gone wrong...a failed photo-op. I know that Bush claimed the Navy put it up and the Navy said that it was the whitehouse.
 
disneydude said:
Well....I know that it was another Bush Guffaw gone wrong...a failed photo-op. I know that Bush claimed the Navy put it up and the Navy said that it was the whitehouse.
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No, Bush didn't claim it. The Navy said so, unequivacally. The Navy did, in fact, put it up to congratulate the USS Lincoln on their long mission.

CNN.com - White House pressed on 'mission accomplished' sign - Oct. 29, 2003

"The banner was a Navy idea, the ship's idea," Chun said.

"The banner signified the successful completion of the ship's deployment," he said, noting the Abraham Lincoln was deployed 290 days, longer than any other nuclear-powered aircraft carrier in history. "

Do you have anything to support your notion that this was only a Bush "claim"....anything at all that would refute what the Navy says?
 
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CurrentAffairs said:
Well then, that would be grounds for impeachment, removal from office and perhaps jail. I wonder why that idea has already been dropped by the new democratic Congress?
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You wonder perhaps because you're not smart enough to know the obvious, is that it?

Impeaching Bush is politically incorrect at this time. It's too late and the nation would be torn apart like it was under Nixon. Bush is a lame duck, impotent and that is a far more expedient solution than the bullshit that you're writing...
 
CurrentAffairs said:
No, Bush didn't claim it. The Navy sais so, unequivacally. The Navy did, in fact, put it up to congratulate the USS Lincoln on their long mission.

CNN.com - White House pressed on 'mission accomplished' sign - Oct. 29, 2003

"The banner was a Navy idea, the ship's idea," Chun said.

"The banner signified the successful completion of the ship's deployment," he said, noting the Abraham Lincoln was deployed 290 days, longer than any other nuclear-powered aircraft carrier in history. "

Do you have anything to support your notion that this was only a Bush "claim"....anything at all that would refute what the Navy says?
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Its funny...because I was going to post the same exact link....but for a different proposition.
If you actually believe that the banner guffaw gone awry and the spin that was created to save face based on the explanation given.....I would love to sell you a bridge in Brooklyn.

Oh...and while I would love to stay and talk pie with you.....I gotta go.
But I am still waiting for you to show me that mincemeat recipe that you gave Iriemon. Maybe you can post a link and we can pick it up another time.

Til then....
 
disneydude said:
Its funny...because I was going to post the same exact link....but for a different proposition.
If you actually believe that the banner guffaw gone awry and the spin that was created to save face based on the explanation given.....I would love to sell you a bridge in Brooklyn.

Oh...and while I would love to stay and talk pie with you.....I gotta go.
But I am still waiting for you to show me that mincemeat recipe that you gave Iriemon. Maybe you can post a link and we can pick it up another time.

Til then....
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Here's what's even funnier...

I provided evidence to the exact story behind the mission accomplished banner and it's origin and your rebuttal is:

"If you actually believe that..." :lol:

Yeah, I think I'd get offline too.
 
:spin:
CurrentAffairs said:
Anyone with a brain larger than a pea understood the quote. If we achieve victory before his presidency ends, then we would, naturally, bring our troops home. As long as he is Commander-in-Chief, we will stay until we are victorious. Your hate is way out in front of your logic.
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:spin:

I find this really funny...he said that as long as he's president the troops aren't coming home....he knows we're not winning....and he knows we're not losing....so obviously one can assume...he has no timeline for when the troops are coming home....and he has no timeline for our "glorious" victory against the insurgency either.....he fires the generals....he fires Rummy....and I think Bolton....he still hasn't come up with a plan....an actual plan not :

"We will defeat the insurgency"

Does anybody else feel like this is a tactic used by a man desperate for his term to end so he can get the **** out of the oval office and dump his load on the next guy?
 
Hey Current Affair:

We're all still waiting for that link to show where you made mincemeat out of Iriemon yesterday.....looked again in your posts and couldn't find anything......thought my now you'd have provided it for us.
link please.
 
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CurrentAffairs said:
I provided evidence to the exact story behind the mission accomplished banner and it's origin and your rebuttal is:
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Ok....so a Navy personnel makes a lameass attempt to help Bush save face by coming up with a hokey story to explain Bush's PR disaster and you cite that as evidence.

Is that what "mincemeat" is?

And it was just coincidence that Bush just happened to make an appearance looking all military in his padded flight suit...proclaiming the first victory in the war on terror....and you think this was all just a big mistake.....

Sounds a little more like "Mock Apple Pie" than "Mincemeat" to me.

Still waiting for that Mincemeat recipe you gave to Iriemon though.
 
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