Repealing the 2nd

[jaeger19]

I'm not sure whether your question got answered or not, so I will answer it anyway.

I have read through Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution (law making powers of Congress), and as you point out, I do not see anything in there about dictating whether you drive or not.

Under the 10th Amendment, the State governments do have the right to make laws on this issue however.

exactly.. and the states are bound to only restrictions that don't materially infringe on my right to drive.

 

[soylentgreen]

Yeah.. your argument is all over the place... there is no "ad populum fallacy" with the NRA. The NRA is in part a lobbying organization that is made up of millions of gun owners. They inform gun owners of legislation that is pending.. they help organize those individuals to participate in demonstrations and most importantly in informed voting. In other words.. directly participating in the governance of America. Which directly refutes your claim that americans are more concerned with revolution than the political process and governance. I can show you many instances of where millions of gun owners influenced and participated in governance.

Can you show me an example in the last 100 years of "revolution"? no you can't.

its the same in New Zealand by the way.



Hmmm... you might want to look at yourself before talking about the US. So while I can purchase a firearm without permission from a local policeman.. while I can purchase that firearm without having my home searched by your police to determine if it has a secure place for your firearms..... you can't. So on that perspective.. you have much more of a master .. than I do.



Blah blah blah... I suppose your next argument would be then that fire is a poor excuse to have a fire extinguisher, or fire suppression devices in my place of business.. because the rate of fire in my community is so low? I hardly doubt that. A firearm can be a valuable tool if one is being a victim of crime... just as a fire extinguisher is a good thing if there is a fire.



Actually.. they both make sense... just like you argue that fire extinguishers are good devices to have in case of fire. And of course they aren't the only things that americans think about when it comes to the right to own firearms. We actually think that our fellow citizens are safe to own firearms in general and don't believe that a "need" must be shown simply to be able to own and purchase a firearm.

For some reason.. in your country.. your government feels that you are not safe to own firearms.. and must be protected from itself.. and therefore only a government police officer has the ability to ascertain whether you should be allowed to own a firearm or not.. at his/her discretion.

And ironically... You new Zealanders have bought into the BS. You have more firearms and less restrictions than the UK.. but yet a much lower crime rate. Which proves that guns are not the issue when it comes to crime and violence. Yet.. you needless restrict yourselves!.

Explain that one. :doh

I have never argued that guns are an issue of crime. That is the arguement of the pro gun group in there desire to kill criminals instead of dealing with the issue of crime. Like your arguement that a bunch of unorganised gun owners could have real effect against a government dictatorship the arguement that you need guns to defend yourselves from criminals is equally ridiculous.

No, the real difference is that in my country the idea of safety with guns is enforced by law. Where as in your country not only is stupidity considered a right but the right to kill is also accepted.

The fact that there has not been a revolution in your country does not mean gun ownership had anything to do with. A well fed slave will also not bother to revolt.

 

[jaeger19]

I have never argued that guns are an issue of crime. olt.

Hmm.. not according to your posts..

Considering the amount of people who die in america because you have such a slack view on who can have guns and for what reason and on what they can do with them.

You are making a clear connection with people dying because of access to guns.

Like your arguement that a bunch of unorganised gun owners could have real effect against a government dictatorship the arguement that you need guns to defend yourselves from criminals is equally ridiculous.

Well.. history.. reality.. basically refutes your premise. First of all. Defensive use of firearms against criminals happens every day in the US. that's a fact.

Secondly..the argument that gun owning citizens can be effective against a government or much larger military power has been proven multiple times in history.

Its pretty clear that you don't understand armed conflicts and how such would likely play out in America. No one is claiming that the armed citizens are going to be shooting down jets with their .22 squirrel rifles.

Armed resistance to the government would force the military to decide whether they are willing to fire on their own fathers, mothers, brothers and sisters.. and a good portion won't. and they.. their training and their weapons.. will become part of the revolt.

not to mention that in all likelihood.. any armed resistance in America would also garner support from countries around the world.. that would arm, train, and support a rebellion in the US. Just like various countries support revolutionaries around the world today.

No, the real difference is that in my country the idea of safety with guns is enforced by law

No the real difference is that in your country.. you have given up your right to own firearms needlessly. You have turned yourselfs over to the government police to decide on a whim whether you are capable of owning a firearm or not. And for no good reason. You just stated that guns are not an issue with crime.

The fact that there has not been a revolution in your country does not mean gun ownership had anything to do with.

Well. you are the one that was claiming that americans were more concerned with revolution than with our political governance. The fact is.. that we have retained the power of influencing our governance. Which we do on a daily basis... with organizations such as the NRA... AND we have retained the power to revolt if necessary.

A well fed slave will also not bother to revolt.

The first step to becoming a slave.. generally is to give up the means of defending yourself from becoming a slave. i.e. giving up your arms.

If you look at a picture of a slave and their master... which one is more likely to be armed.. and which one unarmed? Somehow.. I doubt there are a ton of societies in which the slaves have all the weapons.. and the masters have none.

 

[soylentgreen]

Hmm.. not according to your posts..



You are making a clear connection with people dying because of access to guns.

Well, yes! Where as you are making a poor attempt at trying to associate that with issues of crime.

Well.. history.. reality.. basically refutes your premise. First of all. Defensive use of firearms against criminals happens every day in the US. that's a fact.

So your arguement is that america is such a crime ridden ****hole that you need a gun to even walk through a mall?

Secondly..the argument that gun owning citizens can be effective against a government or much larger military power has been proven multiple times in history.

And not one of those countries had a second amendment so why do you need one?

Its pretty clear that you don't understand armed conflicts and how such would likely play out in America. No one is claiming that the armed citizens are going to be shooting down jets with their .22 squirrel rifles.

Nor did i, but making **** up seems to be your thing.

Armed resistance to the government would force the military to decide whether they are willing to fire on their own fathers, mothers, brothers and sisters.. and a good portion won't. and they.. their training and their weapons.. will become part of the revolt.

I will remind you of your own words, " or much larger military power" You cannot argue that you would be effective against the military and then deny the military will be involved.

not to mention that in all likelihood.. any armed resistance in America would also garner support from countries around the world.. that would arm, train, and support a rebellion in the US. Just like various countries support revolutionaries around the world today.

As has often been said. when tyranny comes to america it will come rapped in the american flag and singing the national anthem. You have already given good reason as to why your government is nothing more than a puppet for the real powers of lobby groups. America already is a tyranny of a ologarchy disguised as a government. As I said, well fed slaves do not revolt.

No the real difference is that in your country.. you have given up your right to own firearms needlessly. You have turned yourselfs over to the government police to decide on a whim whether you are capable of owning a firearm or not. And for no good reason. You just stated that guns are not an issue with crime.

Given up no such right i can own as many guns as i choose. What i have given up is a right to behave stupidly with a gun and do not regret that decision at all. No, i have laws protecting my right to own a gun. Laws concerning safety with guns do not effect that.

Well. you are the one that was claiming that americans were more concerned with revolution than with our political governance. The fact is.. that we have retained the power of influencing our governance. Which we do on a daily basis... with organizations such as the NRA... AND we have retained the power to revolt if necessary.

Yes, you have such a ****ty gverning system that you need always be prepred to revolt. Laughable.

The first step to becoming a slave.. generally is to give up the means of defending yourself from becoming a slave. i.e. giving up your arms.

If you look at a picture of a slave and their master... which one is more likely to be armed.. and which one unarmed? Somehow.. I doubt there are a ton of societies in which the slaves have all the weapons.. and the masters have none.

 

[jaeger19]

Well, yes! Where as you are making a poor attempt at trying to associate that with issues of crime.
.

Oh... then how are people then dying because of our access to firearms then? Do you contend guns cause cancer? Perhaps owning a firearm affects the respiratory system? Or does owning a firearm cause diabetes.. or heart attack?

So your arguement is that america is such a crime ridden ****hole that you need a gun to even walk through a mall?

not at all.. Seriously.. you have issues you know..

Anyway.. nope.. America is one of the safest and one of the most free nations on earth as well. However, just like I have never had a fire in any of my facilities, have never had a fire in my home, never had a fire in my truck.. and the chances of having a fire are exceedingly small in the above. Despite that fact.. its better to be prepared and have fire extinguishers and fire suppression devices in case of the rare occurrence that its needed.

Seriously.. how can that not make sense to you?

And not one of those countries had a second amendment so why do you need one?

Logically as a preventative measure.

For example in our country.. our government is prevented from legally disarming the public.. for any reason.

In your country.. the government could disarm you under false pretenses.. thus reducing your ability to revolt if later your government became tyrannical.

Nor did i, but making **** up seems to be your thing.

That's funny. Especially coming from you who are trying to contend that americans are slaves. and in the next breath all we want to do is revolt etc..

I will remind you of your own words, " or much larger military power" You cannot argue that you would be effective against the military and then deny the military will be involved...

Excuse me sir.. but you need to be reminded of your own words. You claimed that a armed citizens cannot prevail against a military force.

I pointed out accurately that history has shown it can. Which refutes your premise.

THEN.. I made the point that in America.. since the citizens can offer armed resistance.. then the military would HAVE to make the decision whether to fire on their own sons, daughters, fathers and mothers. And I pointed out that that is a pretty tall order.. so in all likelihood.. either the military would refuse to get involved at all. OR it would split and a portion.. probably a significant portion of the military would join the citizens in revolt.

As has often been said. when tyranny comes to america it will come rapped in the american flag and singing the national anthem

Oh yes.. as it often the case in other countries throughout history. And it will usually start with disarming a portion or large portion of the public that would be willing to resist that tyranny. Start by labeling the people that speak out against the abuses of power, as "dangerous".. and remove their firearms, their protections in the courts.. their access to the media etc. Any tyranny would start with the idea that the "State" or government, is all knowing, the best decision maker for the people.

You know.. like deciding which people that should be allowed to have firearms.. and those that should not be allowed to have arms. In the interest of "making society safe" of course.

(hmmm.. sound familiar? Sounds just like your arguments does it not?)

Given up no such right i can own as many guns as i choose.

Well.. only as long as your local police officer things so. The minute your government officials declare that you cannot legally have a firearm.. well then you cannot.

No, i have laws protecting my right to own a gun

No.. you have made it a point that you don't have the right to bear arms. In fact you ridicule America for having such a right.

You have a law that currently ALLOWS you to have a weapon if the government police man deems you fit to own one AND that you have a what is considered a lawful purpose for it. (Self defense is not a lawful purpose
)) . On his whim or the whim of his/her superiors that could change.

Yes, you have such a ****ty gverning system that you need always be prepred to revolt. Laughable.

Whats laughable is the way you make crap up. One of the reasons that we have a great governing system is because we are always prepared to defend our rights when we need to. Its a great preventative and its smart to be prepared.

According to your logic.. someone should only put on a seatbelt if they are a lousy driver. :doh

 

[TurtleDude]

I've never understood why some foreigners are so agitated over our gun rights and laws. I have never, ever spent anytime on a British, NZ, Australian, German, Danish, etc message board bashing their restrictive gun laws. I really don't care if their sheeple want to be disarmed. So what causes foreigners to constantly complain about our laws? Is it an Aesop's fox in the fable syndrome? or is there really an international conspiracy against our gun rights? :shock:

 

[jaeger19]

I've never understood why some foreigners are so agitated over our gun rights and laws. I have never, ever spent anytime on a British, NZ, Australian, German, Danish, etc message board bashing their restrictive gun laws. I really don't care if their sheeple want to be disarmed. So what causes foreigners to constantly complain about our laws? Is it an Aesop's fox in the fable syndrome? or is there really an international conspiracy against our gun rights? :shock:

Well..for one.. many people in other countries.. cannot understand why we don't see things their way. I mean. its not surprising to me.. when you consider that our country is made up basically of people that did not want to live in those respective countries.

And I also think it makes them mad that americans don't really care what they think. Other countries kind of have to care what the US thinks. Because we are the lone super power. We are a huge economic powerhouse.... and that pisses people off.

And the fact is.. americans in generally don't care that much about the rest of the world because most other countries don't have that big of an effect on us.

It makes us seem that Americans have big egos, and think we are superior. When really.. we are for the most part so secure.. that we just don't think we need to be concerned what other countries are doing.

 

[TurtleDude]

Well..for one.. many people in other countries.. cannot understand why we don't see things their way. I mean. its not surprising to me.. when you consider that our country is made up basically of people that did not want to live in those respective countries.

And I also think it makes them mad that americans don't really care what they think. Other countries kind of have to care what the US thinks. Because we are the lone super power. We are a huge economic powerhouse.... and that pisses people off.

And the fact is.. americans in generally don't care that much about the rest of the world because most other countries don't have that big of an effect on us.

It makes us seem that Americans have big egos, and think we are superior. When really.. we are for the most part so secure.. that we just don't think we need to be concerned what other countries are doing.

someone once described modern day France as a long past prime time movie actress who still expects that handsome wealthy young men should buy her drinks and treat her like a Diva and when they don't, she gets upset and throws Tantrums.

 

[jaeger19]

someone once described modern day France as a long past prime time movie actress who still expects that handsome wealthy young men should buy her drinks and treat her like a Diva and when they don't, she gets upset and throws Tantrums.

In a way.. that's the way the developed world is going.

I think its the result of the world population aging in developed countries. Increasingly in Europe, you have a large and powerful demographic of older people. that see their country through the lens of the past.. they increasingly are clinging to ideas and thoughts of how "things were" and not really seeing how things actually are. And that is creating dissonance. Particularly when the folks that are in control of the country are older citizens that have this past view... but now there is an influx of younger immigrants that don't share that past.. and want to deal with how things are in real time.

The same thing is happening here in America. We are increasingly becoming divided and mostly its because of the aging of America and a cultural difference between the "old folks" that are "living in the past" and a new younger generation that realizes that things are much different in todays world.

A perfect example is one of my friends who is a much older gentleman. He owns a multitude of gas stations/fueling stations. (multimillionaire). Now.. recently he completely changed how he did business and got rid of at least 200 employees and went toward automated fueling stations at many locations. Way more efficient.. less hassles and more money for him.

but then in a discussion in jobs.. he stated "well there is a job for anyone who wants to work hard enough...".. "When I graduated high school I got a job pumping gas.. and then went to doing oil changes, and then running the gas station and then when the owner wanted to retire, I bought it from him and made payments to him until I paid it off, and then I bought another and another".

And he was flummoxed when I pointed out to him "you realize that you just let 200 people who worked for you go.. and just removed that job that you got as a young man"...

The world has changed.. the world is changing, but there is a large contingent of people in the developed world that are trying hard not to see that. In America.. we have been a bit more insulated because of our strong economy, and being the only super power in the world.

 

[calamity]

I've never understood why some foreigners are so agitated over our gun rights and laws. I have never, ever spent anytime on a British, NZ, Australian, German, Danish, etc message board bashing their restrictive gun laws. I really don't care if their sheeple want to be disarmed. So what causes foreigners to constantly complain about our laws? Is it an Aesop's fox in the fable syndrome? or is there really an international conspiracy against our gun rights? :shock:

They are probably worried that the crazy bug seeps into their country.

 

[TurtleDude]

They are probably worried that the crazy bug seeps into their country.

won't come from the NRA but rather the radical jihad

 

[VanceMack]

won't come from the NRA but rather the radical jihad

Hell...forget about the 'radical' fundamentalist Muslims. The 'good' Muslims in the UK are beating strangers in the street for inappropriate clothing. They are killing their own children in the name of love and honor. They are condemning homosexuals to death because they love them so much. They are blaming women for being assaulted and even raped because of their clothing. And these are the 'good' ones.

Leftists are so invested in their hatred of the right that they willingly and willfully support importation of people that would first and foremost target THEM.

Brilliant.

 

[calamity]

won't come from the NRA but rather the radical jihad

The gun nut jihad?

 

[calamity]

Hell...forget about the 'radical' fundamentalist Muslims. The 'good' Muslims in the UK are beating strangers in the street for inappropriate clothing. They are killing their own children in the name of love and honor. They are condemning homosexuals to death because they love them so much. They are blaming women for being assaulted and even raped because of their clothing. And these are the 'good' ones.

Leftists are so invested in their hatred of the right that they willingly and willfully support importation of people that would first and foremost target THEM.

Brilliant.

Freedom of Religion really is a terrible idea. We can repeal that nonsense at the same time we kill gun rights. I'm glad you agree.

 

[TurtleDude]

The gun nut jihad?

well if you were trying to find as silly and nonsensical a response, you did.

 

[TurtleDude]

Freedom of Religion really is a terrible idea. We can repeal that nonsense at the same time we kill gun rights. I'm glad you agree.

I stand corrected, that post was even more silly and nonsensical than the other one. Freedom of religion has nothing to do with jihadists killing people just as the second amendment has nothing to do with mass gunshot murder. But I suspect you know that

 

[VanceMack]

Freedom of Religion really is a terrible idea. We can repeal that nonsense at the same time we kill gun rights. I'm glad you agree.

No one said they shouldnt have the right to practice their own religion freely...merely that you would have to be the worst kind of dumb **** to advocate for bringing in more people like that just because you hate people opposed to bringing in more people like that.

 

[soylentgreen]

Oh... then how are people then dying because of our access to firearms then? Do you contend guns cause cancer? Perhaps owning a firearm affects the respiratory system? Or does owning a firearm cause diabetes.. or heart attack?

not at all.. Seriously.. you have issues you know..

Really!! You're going to pretend ignorance over gun deaths in america?

Anyway.. nope.. America is one of the safest and one of the most free nations on earth as well. However, just like I have never had a fire in any of my facilities, have never had a fire in my home, never had a fire in my truck.. and the chances of having a fire are exceedingly small in the above. Despite that fact.. its better to be prepared and have fire extinguishers and fire suppression devices in case of the rare occurrence that its needed.

So then your arguement that you need guns to kill the hordes of desperate criminals who will kill for a pocketfull of change is false and nothing more than the scare mongering that pro gun people use to justify having guns.

Seriously.. how can that not make sense to you?

Are you that despersate that you will continue to falsely portray me as someone who says you cannot have a gun or that it cannot be used in self defense. Arguements i have not made but you need me to make because dealing with the fact that pointing out your own arguements are nothing more than scare mongering is something you cannot deal with.

Logically as a preventative measure.

For example in our country.. our government is prevented from legally disarming the public.. for any reason.

In your country.. the government could disarm you under false pretenses.. thus reducing your ability to revolt if later your government became tyrannical.

No, actually they cannot disarm under false premise. Again you use scare mongering of what if the police acted illegally.
And countries that did not have the second did revolt successfully. America did not have a second when it revolted. You do enjoy contradicting yourself.

That's funny. Especially coming from you who are trying to contend that americans are slaves. and in the next breath all we want to do is revolt etc..

Again you speak falsely. I do not contend you revolt that is your nonsense.

Excuse me sir.. but you need to be reminded of your own words. You claimed that a armed citizens cannot prevail against a military force.

I pointed out accurately that history has shown it can. Which refutes your premise.

THEN.. I made the point that in America.. since the citizens can offer armed resistance.. then the military would HAVE to make the decision whether to fire on their own sons, daughters, fathers and mothers. And I pointed out that that is a pretty tall order.. so in all likelihood.. either the military would refuse to get involved at all. OR it would split and a portion.. probably a significant portion of the military would join the citizens in revolt.

Is it americans in general who are to stupid to figure out how to win a revolt or is it just your politicians who are the stupid ones engaging a take over without first ensuring support of military and police? You do make up the most ridiculous scenarios to support a ridiculous arguement that you need guns because your government is crap.

 

[soylentgreen]

Oh yes.. as it often the case in other countries throughout history. And it will usually start with disarming a portion or large portion of the public that would be willing to resist that tyranny. Start by labeling the people that speak out against the abuses of power, as "dangerous".. and remove their firearms, their protections in the courts.. their access to the media etc. Any tyranny would start with the idea that the "State" or government, is all knowing, the best decision maker for the people.

You know.. like deciding which people that should be allowed to have firearms.. and those that should not be allowed to have arms. In the interest of "making society safe" of course.

You mean things like trump stirring up hate and trying to stop immigration of any who are not white english speakers. But he can get away with that because he only has to deal with well fed slaves.

(hmmm.. sound familiar? Sounds just like your arguments does it not?)

No, your's sounds like you do not even know how you are a slave while mine points it out.

Well.. only as long as your local police officer things so. The minute your government officials declare that you cannot legally have a firearm.. well then you cannot.

Again scare mongering without substance. A poor excuse for a reason and easily seen through .

No.. you have made it a point that you don't have the right to bear arms. In fact you ridicule America for having such a right.

You are correct i do not have a right to flaunt a gun about and shoot it off as i please but i do have a right to own a gun. And laughing at americas stupidity with guns that they demand the right to fire a gun at whoever they please is a reason to ridicule them.

You have a law that currently ALLOWS you to have a weapon if the government police man deems you fit to own one AND that you have a what is considered a lawful purpose for it. (Self defense is not a lawful purpose
)) . On his whim or the whim of his/her superiors that could change.

You have no clue about justice systems do you. Or is it in your desperation to raise fear you intend to ignore there existence. Self defence is lawful however it has to be self defense unlike america where it is merely a shoot first and claim self defense after.

Whats laughable is the way you make crap up. One of the reasons that we have a great governing system is because we are always prepared to defend our rights when we need to. Its a great preventative and its smart to be prepared.

According to your logic.. someone should only put on a seatbelt if they are a lousy driver. :doh

Not at all i am all for safety. Where as all you can do is create fear. You do not have freedom what you have is the fear of loosing it.

 

[TurtleDude]

Really!! You're going to pretend ignorance over gun deaths in america?


not at all.. Seriously.. you have issues you know..

So then your arguement that you need guns to kill the hordes of desperate criminals who will kill for a pocketfull of change is false and nothing more than the scare mongering that pro gun people use to justifu having guns.

Are you that despersate that you will continue to falsly portray me as someone who says you cannot have a gun or that it cannot be used in self defense. Arguements i have not made but you need me to make because dealing with the fact that pointing out your own arguements are nothing more than scare mongering is something you cannot deal with.



No, actually they cannot disarm under false premise. Again you use scare mongering of what if the police acted illegally.
And countries that did not have the second did revolt successfully. America did not have a second when it revolted. You do enjoy contradicting yourself.



Again you speak falsely. I do not contend you revolt that is your nonsense.

Is it americans in general who are to stupid to figure out how to win a revolt or is it just your politicians who are the stupid ones engaging a take over without first ensuring support of military and police? You do make up the most ridsiculous scenarios to support a ridiculous arguement that you need funs because your government is crap.

Have you ever told us what drives your somewhat frantic desire to denigrate gun rights in country you don't live in? Claiming we need "funs" (I assume you mean guns but who knows) because the government is crap is not an argument most of us buy into

 

[soylentgreen]

Have you ever told us what drives your somewhat frantic desire to denigrate gun rights in country you don't live in? Claiming we need "funs" (I assume you mean guns but who knows) because the government is crap is not an argument most of us buy into

Your down to a desperate plea that foreigners have no business here. That is because you have no defense for the poor reasons you use as an excuse to justify americas stupidity with guns.

I will make it very clear for you, not that i have not already done so but let's try again.

I could not care less about your guns or those in favour or against. What i am doing here is pointing out how badly pro gun people, and you especially, are really bad at arguing your points. Its the poor quality of your reasoning that draws me in not any consideration of a gun.

You are so bad at it that your now lowering the bar to pointing out spelling errors you so lack the wit to actually deal with the areguements.

 

[TurtleDude]

Your down to a desperate plea that foreigners have no business here. That is because you have no defense for the poor reasons you use as an excuse to justify americas stupidity with guns.

I will make it very clear for you, not that i have not already done so but let's try again.

I could not care less about your guns or those in favour or against. What i am doing here is pointing out how badly pro gun people, and you especially, are really bad at arguing your points. Its the poor quality of your reasoning that draws me in not any consideration of a gun.

You are so bad at it that your now lowering the bar to pointing out spelling errors you so lack the wit to actually deal with the areguements.

more nonsense. and since you don't live here, what is your damage? I think its case of the fox in Aesop's fable or projection from something you experienced in your country. but the fact is, the anti gun movement in the USA is the most dishonest political movement in this nation. Its dishonest not only because it constantly lies about gun owners, but because its dishonest about its goals

and given you never complain about the blatant idiocy of the anti gun arguments (like claiming that that semi autos have no use but warfare and some of the other crap we see), your claim that you are merely upset with pro gun arguments is a blatant lie because NOTHING the pro gun side says is as idiotic as claims that "10 round magazines" have no use except "warfare" or that the AR 15 is a "weapon of war" and so forth

 

[cuban smokes]

Your down to a desperate plea that foreigners have no business here. That is because you have no defense for the poor reasons you use as an excuse to justify americas stupidity with guns.

I will make it very clear for you, not that i have not already done so but let's try again.

I could not care less about your guns or those in favour or against. What i am doing here is pointing out how badly pro gun people, and you especially, are really bad at arguing your points. Its the poor quality of your reasoning that draws me in not any consideration of a gun.

You are so bad at it that your now lowering the bar to pointing out spelling errors you so lack the wit to actually deal with the areguements.

so, what's it like in New Zealand; you guys get to own guns there? what is the crime rate like in urban areas?

 

[soylentgreen]

more nonsense. and since you don't live here, what is your damage? I think its case of the fox in Aesop's fable or projection from something you experienced in your country. but the fact is, the anti gun movement in the USA is the most dishonest political movement in this nation. Its dishonest not only because it constantly lies about gun owners, but because its dishonest about its goals

and given you never complain about the blatant idiocy of the anti gun arguments (like claiming that that semi autos have no use but warfare and some of the other crap we see), your claim that you are merely upset with pro gun arguments is a blatant lie because NOTHING the pro gun side says is as idiotic as claims that "10 round magazines" have no use except "warfare" or that the AR 15 is a "weapon of war" and so forth

But i am not anti gun and have made that quite clear. I am anti stupidity with a gun and anti stupidity of the arguements used by the pro gun group. Especially your whinging about me being a foreigner and especially about your desperate and very dishonest attempt at portraying me as anti gun.

But that is really all you ever do. Stick your fingers in your ears and shout very loudly, "they want to take my guns away." That is why the gun argument never gets anywhere, Because the pro gun group are only interested in making a up pretned dumb arguemets that are easy for them to shoot down. Instead of dealing with issues that stupidity with guns really do raise.

 

[TurtleDude]

But i am not anti gun and have made that quite clear. I am anti stupidity with a gun and anti stupidity of the arguements used by the pro gun group. Especially your whinging about me being a foreigner and especially about your desperate and very dishonest attempt at portraying me as anti gun.

But that is really all you ever do. Stick your fingers in your ears and shout very loudly, "they want to take my guns away." That is why the gun argument never gets anywhere, Because the pro gun group are only interested in making a up pretned dumb arguemets that are easy for them to shoot down. Instead of dealing with issues that stupidity with guns really do raise.

you are lying because the really stupid arguments come from the anti gun side and I have yet to see you take issue with them. Nothing is more dishonest than claims that someone really doesn't take a side but only is commenting because they claim the argument from ONE side is poor. Do you think anyone believes such obvious bovine excrement?

I love the members of the anti gun movement-like YOU-who claim NO ONE WANTS To take guns away. People like you said that crap in England, you said that in Australia, you said that in California, NY, NJ and so forth. Its all lies.