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Reparative therapy doesnt work, and may be harmful

F

FallingPianos

"reparative therapy" is therapy intended to convert homosexuals to hetersexuality.

there is no evidence to support its use.
The validity, efficacy and ethics of clinical attempts to change an individual's sexual orientation have been challenged (3,4,5,6). To date, there are no scientifically rigorous outcome studies to determine either the actual efficacy or harm of "reparative" treatments. There is sparse scientific data about selection criteria, risks versus benefits of the treatment, and long-term outcomes of "reparative" therapies. The literature consists of anecdotal reports of individuals who have claimed to change, people who claim that attempts to change were harmful to them, and others who claimed to have changed and then later recanted those claims (7,8,9).
http://www.psych.org/psych_pract/copptherapyaddendum83100.cfm
and it is rejected by the medical and psychological community.
In 1999, the American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychological Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and National Education Association developed and endorsed a statement reading:

The most important fact about 'reparative therapy,' also sometimes known as 'conversion' therapy, is that it is based on an understanding of homosexuality that has been rejected by all the major health and mental health professions. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of Social Workers, together representing more than 477,000 health and mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus there is no need for a 'cure.' ...health and mental health professional organizations do not support efforts to change young people's sexual orientation through 'reparative therapy' and have raised serious concerns about its potential to do harm.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparative_therapy
so why are so many organizations advocating it?
 

Thinker

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star2589 said:
"reparative therapy" is therapy intended to convert homosexuals to hetersexuality. there is no evidence to support its use.
and it is rejected by the medical and psychological community.
so why are so many organizations advocating it?
Because their interpretation of an ancient book tells them that homosexuality is
"wrong" and that their invented god can't possible have invented it. Therefore it
must be a man-made thing and can be "corrected".

I suspect a more accurate reason is that the advocates of it are not
comfortable with their own sexuality, and feel a need to impose their personal
repressions on others.

Not so long ago, left-handed people were perpetually told they were evil or
perverse and were "persuaded" to change to use their right hands. Repeat
nonsense often enough and some weak-minded people will believe you.
 
F

FallingPianos

Thinker said:
Because their interpretation of an ancient book tells them that homosexuality is
"wrong" and that their invented god can't possible have invented it. Therefore it
must be a man-made thing and can be "corrected".

I suspect a more accurate reason is that the advocates of it are not
comfortable with their own sexuality, and feel a need to impose their personal
repressions on others.

Not so long ago, left-handed people were perpetually told they were evil or
perverse and were "persuaded" to change to use their right hands. Repeat
nonsense often enough and some weak-minded people will believe you.
most of the organizations are religious, but one of the biggest ones is secular. today, the attitude about homosexuals thats being driven into people's heads is to accept them. its only in religious circles that a different message is sent. its hard for me to understand how secular organizations like that can exist in todays world.
 

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The idea that homosexuality is an illness that can be cured is utter nonsense just like the idea that small breasts are a disease that can be cured. Sure you can go get big fake boobs to fix your small boob disease if you buy into that crap and feel it'll make your life better.

If someone wants to try to change their natural sexual preference because they believe that will better suit their life than I guess they might as well give it go. It's all a bunch of nonsense in my opinion. But you know some people never leave high school mentality behind and they spend their lives attempting to conform so that perhaps one day they'll get to be king and queen of the prom.:rofl
 

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talloulou said:
perhaps one day they'll get to be king and queen of the prom.:rofl
Only some guys don't want to be queen of the prom!! :lol:

Nice post talloulou.
 

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"MAY" be harmful? So your saying that strapping somebody to a chair, subjecting them to homo-erotic imagery, and shocking the crap out of them every time they get aroused, MAY be harmful?
 
F

FallingPianos

Blind man said:
"MAY" be harmful? So your saying that strapping somebody to a chair, subjecting them to homo-erotic imagery, and shocking the crap out of them every time they get aroused, MAY be harmful?
its my understanding that those types of treatmens are on the fringe.

but the main reason I said "may" is that it hasnt been studied. I should have also said "there is no evidence to support reparative therapy" instead of "reparative therapy doesnt work"
 

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star2589 said:
most of the organizations are religious, but one of the biggest ones is secular.
Reference?
 
F

FallingPianos

Thinker said:
Reference?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparative_therapy
Secular techniques also rely upon reading, sport or physical activity. Reparative therapists generally come from a religious perspective, particularly Christian, and encourage religiousness and prayer.

Religious reparative therapies, such as those practised by Christian transformational ministries, include one-on-one counselling, group counselling, prayer, fasting, reading scripture and meditation. Techniques used in the past (and for a wide array of other psychological and psychatric issues) have included controversial therapies such as electroconvulsive therapy and aversion therapy (such as showing subjects homoerotic material whilst inducing nausea and vomiting through drugs)...

...Reparative Therapy Ministries and Organizations

* National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality which advocates reparative therapy.
* The International Healing Foundation is an interdenominational Christian organization which advocates reparative therapy.
* Exodus International a Christian organization advocating reparative therapy for homosexuals.
* Courage Apostolate
* People Can Change, a non-religous group
* New Direction for Life
* African American Ex Gay Advocacy Group,
* Jews Offering New Alternatives to Homosexuality,
* Evergreen International,
* Ex Transgenders,
* Love In Action and Refuge, an ex-gay, Christian ministry and addiction treatment center
* Parents and Friends of ExGays and Gays, a non-profit ex-gay organization
* Free to Be Me
* True Freedom Trust, a Christian, ex-gay ministry based in the United Kingdom
* Inqueery
* Loving Homosexuals
* Christian Parents and Friends
if you actually go to the site, all those organizations are linked.
 

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star2589 said:
if you actually go to the site, all those organizations are linked.
Which of those do you think is not religiously inspired? I'm not asking about what
they say, rather what they actually are.
 

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star2589 said:
if you actually go to the site, all those organizations are linked.
I think that is just sickening that there are that many organizations given to spreading such a volatile idea. I dont do the gay rights advocacy thing too much aggressively, but this isnt about gay rights...its about organizations being allowed to practice non sanctioned treatments on a group of people because they are offering to make those people more acceptable to society. It is cruel and inhumane to convince anyone, gay straight, bi, kleptomaniac, habitual smoker...anything seen as negative in society...It is absolutely intolerable that an organization can freely market the suggestion that they can practice near torturous behavioral modifactions just because they have moral disapproval of the behavior. Its disgusting.
 
F

FallingPianos

Thinker said:
Which of those do you think is not religiously inspired? I'm not asking about what
they say, rather what they actually are.
thats a difficult question to answer. religion is so ingrained in our culture that it influences everyone, not just the religious, and im sure that these organizations are no exception.
 
F

FallingPianos

jallman said:
I think that is just sickening that there are that many organizations given to spreading such a volatile idea. I dont do the gay rights advocacy thing too much aggressively, but this isnt about gay rights...its about organizations being allowed to practice non sanctioned treatments on a group of people because they are offering to make those people more acceptable to society. It is cruel and inhumane to convince anyone, gay straight, bi, kleptomaniac, habitual smoker...anything seen as negative in society...It is absolutely intolerable that an organization can freely market the suggestion that they can practice near torturous behavioral modifactions just because they have moral disapproval of the behavior. Its disgusting.
yes, I agree.

I think some formal studying needs to by done on the technique. It would be easier to have one's license revoked if there was proof that their methods dont work.
 

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star2589 said:
yes, I agree.

I think some formal studying needs to by done on the technique. It would be easier to have one's license revoked if there was proof that their methods dont work.
No, stars...come on, you got to get with me on this...the entire concept is disturbing...whether it works or not or has an quantifiable harmful effect or is just an outright failure...the concept should be banned on its fundamental premise alone. To tolerate this kind of practice at all is to send a message that if society doesnt approve, based mostly on a religious conviction, it is ok to psychologically manipulate and behaviorally modify you into something more acceptable. Even behavioral modifications performed on the criminally insane have to follow a standard of bringing the patient to healing for whatever environmental causes provoked the illness. These people are modifying other for the soul purpose of moral conformity. Its not right because of that very principle.
 
F

FallingPianos

jallman said:
No, stars...come on, you got to get with me on this...the entire concept is disturbing...whether it works or not or has an quantifiable harmful effect or is just an outright failure...the concept should be banned on its fundamental premise alone. To tolerate this kind of practice at all is to send a message that if society doesnt approve, based mostly on a religious conviction, it is ok to psychologically manipulate and behaviorally modify you into something more acceptable. Even behavioral modifications performed on the criminally insane have to follow a standard of bringing the patient to healing for whatever environmental causes provoked the illness. These people are modifying other for the soul purpose of moral conformity. Its not right because of that very principle.
yeah, thats a good point. trying to treat something that isnt a disorder isnt very ethical.
 

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star2589 said:
yeah, thats a good point. trying to treat something that isnt a disorder isnt very ethical.
even treating a disorder, there is an ethical way to go about it. I mean seek out the cause or trauma that brought about the disorder and then work on healing the trauma. Treat the cause, you know. These freaks are treating nothing but the "symptom" and through aggressive behavioral modifaction that has to be traumatic in and of itself. Its slimy and abhorrent that this is even being allowed. This is a real raw nerve for me if you cant tell.
 
F

FallingPianos

jallman said:
even treating a disorder, there is an ethical way to go about it. I mean seek out the cause or trauma that brought about the disorder and then work on healing the trauma. Treat the cause, you know.
well, some of them at least attempt to do so, even though there is no scientific basis for what they think the cause is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparative_therapy
A key focus in many reparative therapies includes identifying subliminal emotional needs behind homoerotic desires in subjects - typically referred to as "strugglers" or "ex-gays" by reparative therapists - and attempting to replace them with non-sexual means of expression, usually by encouraging the subject to form an emotional but non-sexual bond with another adult of the same gender.
jallman said:
These freaks are treating nothing but the "symptom" and through aggressive behavioral modifaction that has to be traumatic in and of itself. Its slimy and abhorrent that this is even being allowed. This is a real raw nerve for me if you cant tell.
can you be more specific about what types of behavior modification therapies your talking about? things like aversion therapy died in the 70s, when they fell out of general practice.
 

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star2589 said:
well, some of them at least attempt to do so, even though there is no scientific basis for what they think the cause is.

can you be more specific about what types of behavior modification therapies your talking about? things like aversion therapy died in the 70s, when they fell out of general practice.
Like inducing vomiting with drugs while showing homoerotic images, extreme guilt association, aggressive and manipulative "interventions" followed by isolation "camps" for treatment, sleep depravation tactics, social isolation with meetings of only members being mandatory with insane frequency...it goes on and on...this is one topic that I dont bring up because I get rabid about it. I just want to make sure everyone is clear about what these treatments involve and how degrading to our society it is that we even allow it.
 
F

FallingPianos

jallman said:
Like inducing vomiting with drugs while showing homoerotic images, extreme guilt association, aggressive and manipulative "interventions" followed by isolation "camps" for treatment, sleep depravation tactics, social isolation with meetings of only members being mandatory with insane frequency...it goes on and on...this is one topic that I dont bring up because I get rabid about it. I just want to make sure everyone is clear about what these treatments involve and how degrading to our society it is that we even allow it.
I know that a lot of those methods have been used historically, but are any of them still used today? do you have any references?
 

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jallman said:
Like inducing vomiting with drugs while showing homoerotic images, extreme guilt association, aggressive and manipulative "interventions" followed by isolation "camps" for treatment, sleep depravation tactics, social isolation with meetings of only members being mandatory with insane frequency...it goes on and on...this is one topic that I dont bring up because I get rabid about it. I just want to make sure everyone is clear about what these treatments involve and how degrading to our society it is that we even allow it.
I agree totally. It's a very small step from all that to burning at the stake for heresy.

Even now we have people threatened with death for daring to replace one
superstition with another.
 

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star2589 said:
I know that a lot of those methods have been used historically, but are any of them still used today? do you have any references?
It will take me a bit, but I will find some links to testamonials by people who survived reparative therapy. Not all utilize those techniques...but even the ones that dont are still behaviorably modifying in an effort to achieve moral conformity. Its not right. Forgive me for not being prepared with the links just yet.
 
F

FallingPianos

jallman said:
It will take me a bit, but I will find some links to testamonials by people who survived reparative therapy. Not all utilize those techniques...but even the ones that dont are still behaviorably modifying in an effort to achieve moral conformity. Its not right. Forgive me for not being prepared with the links just yet.
hey, you never got back to me on that.
 

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star2589 said:
hey, you never got back to me on that.
you know...I never did. sorry about that. Sometimes I get sidetracked in a really heated thread and forget about some of the others. Plus, looking at the date on this post, it was about the time I had those family issues that took me away for a bit (there was a death in my immediate family about that time.) I will try to pick this back up during this week. Again, I apologize, it was an interesting discussion.
 

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star2589 said:
I know that a lot of those methods have been used historically, but are any of them still used today? do you have any references?
As horrifing as it sounds, I once worked somewhere in the early '90's where a psychiatrist practiced a form of aversion therapy. When it was discovered what, exactly, he was doing, he was forced to resign. IMO, he should have had his license revoked and been jailed.
 
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