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Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”[W:506]

Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

One of our resident professional deniers has often asked the question "is the FBI lying?", usually to defend the FBI's unsupported public claim that the agency investigated for explosives at GZ following 9/11. Based on a recent revelation by the FBI itself, the correct question should be "does the FBI ever tell the truth?".

FBI denounces own report linking Sarasota family to 9/11

(excerpts)

In a fresh report to Congress, the FBI now discredits its own field agent in charge of Southwest Florida for seemingly implicating a Saudi family that owned and occupied a home in Prestancia during the months leading up to the 9/11 attacks.

...

The federal agency now says that the FBI’s own secret report of April 16, 2002 — a key document in the news reports — “was poorly written and wholly unsubstantiated.”

“When questioned later by others in the FBI, the special agent who wrote the EC (Electronic Communication) was unable to provide any basis for the contents of the document or explain why he wrote it as he did,” according to the report, titled “The FBI: Protecting the Homeland in the 21st Century.”

...

The FBI documents were only revealed 10 years after the fact through repeated Freedom of Information Act requests by Dan Christensen, a veteran South Florida reporter who founded the what is now called the Florida Bulldog news organization.

The FBI report to Congress comes during a lengthy review of the agency’s complete 9/11 Southwest Florida archives by a federal judge in Fort Lauderdale.

...

“This seems to be an FBI-orchestrated event here, that was overseen by the agency,” Christensen said. “It was done essentially in secret, because there were no public hearings and nobody knew about it.”

...

The agency’s decision to discredit its own work in Sarasota and the censored chapter are connected, Graham told the Herald-Tribune on Thursday.

“While I cannot talk about the details of the 28-page report since it is classified, I can say they are devoted to who funded the hijackers while they were in the United States, and point a strong finger at Saudi Arabia as being the primary source,” Graham said.

“To that extent, the two are connected,” the former Florida governor said. “They go to whether you believe the hijackers acted alone or had support.”

The Freedom of Information Act court case, which started in September 2012, is being heard by U.S. District Court Judge William J. Zloch in Fort Lauderdale. Although ongoing, the last docket entry was on June 30, nine months ago.

Judge Zloch, a former University of Notre Dame quarterback who was nominated to the bench by President Ronald Reagan, now has access to about 80,000 pages of documents, many of which are classified as secret, that originally included the 84 pages that the FBI has gradually dribbled out to the plaintiffs in the case.

...

The April 2002 electronic memo is just one document out of 84 pages that the FBI has released to Christensen since he began his federal court case. Those pages equate to about a tenth of 1 percent of the 80,000 secret pages now being reviewed by Judge Zloch.

The pages are locked up, one chunk at a time, in a specially installed safe in the federal courthouse. According to court documents, Judge Zloch is only allowed to have part of them in his possession at any one time. He has to give back the pages he has read to get more, so that those on hand fit into the safe.

...

“When did they become aware of the unreliablitiy of this particular agent?” Graham asked. “Since they became aware of it, what have they done to commence a second review of activities in Sarasota with an agent or agents in whom they invest more confidence?”

FBI denounces own report linking Sarasota family to 9/11 | HeraldTribune.com

Of note here is that the FBI originally lied under oath and claimed there were 24 boxes of documents, then disclosed there were actually 27 boxes.

Document: 27 boxes of new secret 9/11 docs found in Florida, Judge trying to get them from FBI

And how does this change the findings 19 Bad Muslims did 9/11?
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

It is a fairy tale, that 19 muslims with box cutters did the dirty deed, and more and more people realize it every day.
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

It is a fairy tale, that 19 muslims with box cutters did the dirty deed, and more and more people realize it every day.

What fairy tale?

Give us an intelligent and cogent counter theory...

EVIDENCE show it was the 19 Bad Muslims.

Have you EVIDENCE others were involved?
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Have you EVIDENCE others were involved?

Obviously not or we would have seen it by now.
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Surprisingly, the MSM is not shying away from this one.

Florida Ex-Senator Pursues Claims of Saudi Ties to Sept. 11 Attacks

MIAMI LAKES, Fla. — The episode could have been a chapter from the thriller written by former Senator Bob Graham of Florida about a shadowy Saudi role in the Sept. 11 attacks.

A top F.B.I. official unexpectedly arranges a meeting at Dulles International Airport outside Washington with Mr. Graham, the former chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, after he has pressed for information on a bureau terrorism inquiry. Mr. Graham, a Democrat, is then hustled off to a clandestine location, where he hopes for a breakthrough in his long pursuit of ties between leading Saudis and the Sept. 11 hijackers.

This real-life encounter happened in 2011, Mr. Graham said, and it took a startling twist.

“He basically said, ‘Get a life,’ ” Mr. Graham said of the F.B.I. official, who suggested that the former senator was chasing a dead-end investigation.

Mr. Graham, 78, a two-term governor of Florida and three-term senator who left Capitol Hill in 2005, says he will not relent in his efforts to force the government to make public a secret section of a congressional review he helped write — one that, by many accounts, implicates Saudi citizens in helping the hijackers.

“No. 1, I think the American people deserve to know the truth of what has happened in their name,” said Mr. Graham, who was a co-chairman of the 2002 joint congressional inquiry into the terrorist attacks. “No. 2 is justice for these family members who have suffered such loss and thus far have been frustrated largely by the U.S. government in their efforts to get some compensation.”

Skipping ...

In sworn statements in the two cases, Mr. Graham has said there was evidence of support from the Saudi government for the terrorists. He also says the F.B.I. withheld from his inquiry, as well as a subsequent one, the fact that the bureau had investigated a Saudi family in Sarasota, Fla., and had found multiple contacts between it and the hijackers training nearby until the family fled just before the attacks.

Despite the F.B.I.’s insistence to the contrary, Mr. Graham said there was no evidence that the bureau had ever disclosed that line of investigation to his panel or the national commission that reviewed the attacks and delivered a report in 2004.

“One thing that irritates me is that the F.B.I. has gone beyond just covering up, trying to avoid disclosure, into what I call aggressive deception,” Mr. Graham said during an interview in a family office in this Miami suburb, which rose on what was a dairy farm operated by Mr. Graham’s father, also a political leader in Florida.

Skipping ...

Still, a federal judge in South Florida is reviewing an estimated 80,000 documents related to the F.B.I.’s inquiry in Florida to determine what to release. Mr. Graham suggested that those documents could include photographs and records of cars linked to the hijackers entering the gated community where the Sarasota family lived.

“That will be a real smoking gun,” Mr. Graham said.

Skipping ...

“To me, the most simple, unanswered question of 9/11 is, did the 19 hijackers act alone or were they assisted by someone in the United States?” he said. “The official position of the United States government is they acted alone.”

“My motivation is to try to answer that question,” he said. “Did they act alone or did they have a support structure that made 9/11 possible?”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/14/w...-claims-of-saudi-ties-to-sept-11-attacks.html

 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

So the report is saying the Saudi's financed all/part of the 911 event.

How does that disprove the hijacking and resulting destruction of wtc1,2,7.?

Why would the US govt , who some allege did 9/11, need Saudi's money?

Seems the alleged revelation of Saudi's money strengthens the fact that outside sources conducted 9/11.
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

So the report is saying the Saudi's financed all/part of the 911 event.

How does that disprove the hijacking and resulting destruction of wtc1,2,7.?

Why would the US govt , who some allege did 9/11, need Saudi's money?

Seems the alleged revelation of Saudi's money strengthens the fact that outside sources conducted 9/11.

Those are all good questions but the one question you're not asking is why the US government is covering up 9/11. The FBI alone has over 80,000 classified documents, there are many others, including those NIST refuses to release even via FOIA requests that all pertain to 9/11. And if the Saudis financed 9/11 to murder over 3,000 innocent people (as it seems), why does the US government continue to protect an enemy who committed an act of war?
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Those are all good questions but the one question you're not asking is why the US government is covering up 9/11. The FBI alone has over 80,000 classified documents, there are many others, including those NIST refuses to release even via FOIA requests that all pertain to 9/11. And if the Saudis financed 9/11 to murder over 3,000 innocent people (as it seems), why does the US government continue to protect an enemy who committed an act of war?

Bob, I can't / won't list all the questions that I may have regarding 9/11. Much like you seem to target only questions pertaining to the US govt.

The question should be what does the current laws/regulations state regarding "classified" documents. If you don't like the regs, take action to have them changed.

Got to ask, should the US govt be required under a FOIA to release all current research on advanced weapons systems? We know the military is doing such research. Should the govt make such detailed information available to the public.

The question should be was it the Saudi govt, or some Saudi citizen who it is alleged financed all/part of 9/11?
Depending on the source of the funds would dictate what type of action.

Not sure I can agree with your "protect an enemy". statement. How do you know what exactly is in those documents, since they are classified and you or I have not seen them?

So what is your solution ?
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Bob, I can't / won't list all the questions that I may have regarding 9/11.

You won't ask ANY questions that pertain to the OCT. Try to be more honest.

Much like you seem to target only questions pertaining to the US govt.

The responsibility for the coverup of 9/11 lies with the US government. The OCT is a product of the US government. Why would any American want to give them a pass? Are you that much of a coward?

The question should be what does the current laws/regulations state regarding "classified" documents. If you don't like the regs, take action to have them changed.

BS red herring, that has nothing to do with the US government coverup of 9/11.

Got to ask, should the US govt be required under a FOIA to release all current research on advanced weapons systems? We know the military is doing such research. Should the govt make such detailed information available to the public.

More BS red herring, that has nothing to do with the US government coverup of 9/11.

The question should be was it the Saudi govt, or some Saudi citizen who it is alleged financed all/part of 9/11?
Depending on the source of the funds would dictate what type of action.

If you listened to the very beginning of the video I just posted and read the many claims from Bob Graham you wouldn't be asking that question. Why do you post anything on this subject if you don't even bother to listen or read anything that's posted?

Not sure I can agree with your "protect an enemy". statement.

Of course not, you have no clue who the enemy is even though the facts are right under your nose.

How do you know what exactly is in those documents, since they are classified and you or I have not seen them?

No one knows EXACTLY what is in those documents other than those who have seen them. But some of those who have seen them are telling us the most important issues that are in those documents. What it seems you want to deny, as with everything else about 9/11 that doesn't jive with the OCT. And those same people are urging that they be declassified as they are NOT a matter of national security.

So what is your solution ?

Why do I have to have a solution? Do you have one? What does that have to do with the US government coverup of 9/11? No one needs to have a solution to try to learn ALL the facts about 9/11. No one can formulate a solution unless and until all the facts are known. And as of now, there are tens of thousands of classified documents/evidence on 9/11 that are being covered up by the US government that those who are in a position to know want released.
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Those are all good questions but the one question you're not asking is why the US government is covering up 9/11. The FBI alone has over 80,000 classified documents, there are many others, including those NIST refuses to release even via FOIA requests that all pertain to 9/11. And if the Saudis financed 9/11 to murder over 3,000 innocent people (as it seems), why does the US government continue to protect an enemy who committed an act of war?

We KNOW Saudis (and other nations) helped finance 9/11....

How does this change the findings of the 9/11 Commission?
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Terrorist Finance document...


This study is on terrorist financing. It was prepared principally by John Roth, Douglas
Greenburg, and Serena Wille, with editing assistance from Alice Falk. As in all staff
studies, they often relied on work done by their colleagues.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/staff_statements/911_TerrFin_Monograph.pdf
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Terrorist Finance document...


This study is on terrorist financing. It was prepared principally by John Roth, Douglas
Greenburg, and Serena Wille, with editing assistance from Alice Falk. As in all staff
studies, they often relied on work done by their colleagues.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/staff_statements/911_TerrFin_Monograph.pdf

This is a study by Commission staff. While the Commissioners have been briefed on the work and have had the opportunity to review earlier drafts of some of this work, they have not approved this text and it does not necessarily reflect their views.

Philip Zelikow


The best available evidence indicates that approximately $300,000 was deposited into the hijackers’ bank accounts in the United States by a variety of means. Just prior to the flights, the hijackers returned about $26,000 to one of their al Qaeda facilitators and attempted to return another $10,000, which was intercepted by the FBI after 9/11. Their primary expenses consisted of tuition for flight training, living expenses (room, board and meals, vehicles, insurance, etc.), and travel (for casing flights, meetings, and the September 11 flights themselves). The FBI believes that the funds in the bank accounts held by the hijackers were sufficient to cover their expenses.145 The FBI, therefore, believes it has identified all sources of funding. Our investigation has revealed nothing to suggest the contrary, although it is possible that the $300,000 estimate omits some cash that the hijackers brought into the United States and spent without depositing into a bank account or otherwise creating a record.146

The underlined proves the FBI lied to the Commission and covered up the 9/11 financing by the Saudi government. It is not arguable that the FBI withheld over 80,000 documents from the Commission. The document is worthless other than for deniers to defend the FBI's lies and pretend it's accurate.
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

You won't ask ANY questions that pertain to the OCT. Try to be more honest.



The responsibility for the coverup of 9/11 lies with the US government. The OCT is a product of the US government. Why would any American want to give them a pass? Are you that much of a coward?



BS red herring, that has nothing to do with the US government coverup of 9/11.



More BS red herring, that has nothing to do with the US government coverup of 9/11.



If you listened to the very beginning of the video I just posted and read the many claims from Bob Graham you wouldn't be asking that question. Why do you post anything on this subject if you don't even bother to listen or read anything that's posted?



Of course not, you have no clue who the enemy is even though the facts are right under your nose.



No one knows EXACTLY what is in those documents other than those who have seen them. But some of those who have seen them are telling us the most important issues that are in those documents. What it seems you want to deny, as with everything else about 9/11 that doesn't jive with the OCT. And those same people are urging that they be declassified as they are NOT a matter of national security.



Why do I have to have a solution? Do you have one? What does that have to do with the US government coverup of 9/11? No one needs to have a solution to try to learn ALL the facts about 9/11. No one can formulate a solution unless and until all the facts are known. And as of now, there are tens of thousands of classified documents/evidence on 9/11 that are being covered up by the US government that those who are in a position to know want released.

With all this posting, you just want to complain. Isn't a debate forum here to exchange ideas.


- Your partially correct. Only a few people know what is those documents that are still classified. You and I do not.

As far as the comments that are negative towards me. I will let it pass and consider the source.
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

With all this posting, you just want to complain.

About the US government coverup of 9/11? Are you saying I shouldn't have any complaint about that?

Isn't a debate forum here to exchange ideas.

It's to discuss issues, if ideas are exchanged in the process then the discussion is even more worthwhile. This particular discussion is about the US government coverup of 9/11. It seems that despite the massive evidence, you either want to deny it or defend it or both.

- Your partially correct. Only a few people know what is those documents that are still classified. You and I do not.

No I'm 100% correct, what's "partial" about that?

As far as the comments that are negative towards me. I will let it pass and consider the source.

You can consider anything you want, so will I.
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

This is a study by Commission staff. While the Commissioners have been briefed on the work and have had the opportunity to review earlier drafts of some of this work, they have not approved this text and it does not necessarily reflect their views.

Philip Zelikow


The best available evidence indicates that approximately $300,000 was deposited into the hijackers’ bank accounts in the United States by a variety of means. Just prior to the flights, the hijackers returned about $26,000 to one of their al Qaeda facilitators and attempted to return another $10,000, which was intercepted by the FBI after 9/11. Their primary expenses consisted of tuition for flight training, living expenses (room, board and meals, vehicles, insurance, etc.), and travel (for casing flights, meetings, and the September 11 flights themselves). The FBI believes that the funds in the bank accounts held by the hijackers were sufficient to cover their expenses.145 The FBI, therefore, believes it has identified all sources of funding. Our investigation has revealed nothing to suggest the contrary, although it is possible that the $300,000 estimate omits some cash that the hijackers brought into the United States and spent without depositing into a bank account or otherwise creating a record.146

The underlined proves the FBI lied to the Commission and covered up the 9/11 financing by the Saudi government. It is not arguable that the FBI withheld over 80,000 documents from the Commission. The document is worthless other than for deniers to defend the FBI's lies and pretend it's accurate.

And how does this change the OVERALL 9/11 NARRATIVE?
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Those are all good questions but the one question you're not asking is why the US government is covering up 9/11. The FBI alone has over 80,000 classified documents, there are many others, including those NIST refuses to release even via FOIA requests that all pertain to 9/11. And if the Saudis financed 9/11 to murder over 3,000 innocent people (as it seems), why does the US government continue to protect an enemy who committed an act of war?

Better yet, why won't Mike give a straight answer to your question? ;)
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Better yet, why won't Mike give a straight answer to your question? ;)

Because it's obvious he's afraid of the subject matter so he tries to marginalize or sidestep it .
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Because it's obvious he's afraid of the subject matter so he tries to marginalize or sidestep it .

It might be a manifestation of CD. By answering questions, one must confront the issues. By dodging them, one dodges the issues.

I read an article somewhere that the issue of Saudi complicity is a sort of red herring, but I don't agree with that. Strange bedfellows indeed, but the relationship between Saudi and Israel is most interesting. Saudi had a role to play in that false flag operation, and apparently it was issuing visas and otherwise support the characters in the play called "the hijackers". IMO
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

And how does this change the OVERALL 9/11 NARRATIVE?

It's only one of many reasons why the OCT (the fraction that they're trying to peddle) is not credible. Lie after lie has been exposed and the coverup is a fact.
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

It might be a manifestation of CD. By answering questions, one must confront the issues. By dodging them, one dodges the issues.

I read an article somewhere that the issue of Saudi complicity is a sort of red herring, but I don't agree with that. Strange bedfellows indeed, but the relationship between Saudi and Israel is most interesting. Saudi had a role to play in that false flag operation, and apparently it was issuing visas and otherwise support the characters in the play called "the hijackers". IMO

That's speculative (the Saudi issue) but that's the problem. Since we have no real answers and what they've fed us is full of lies and holes all we can do is speculate. We need real answers, not theories. And that's the objective of the US government, to give us a story that makes no sense, which they know the ignorant and gullible will swallow and try to confuse those who won't buy it. That's the way propaganda works. It covers up the real crime and protects the real criminals.
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

About the US government coverup of 9/11? Are you saying I shouldn't have any complaint about that?



It's to discuss issues, if ideas are exchanged in the process then the discussion is even more worthwhile. This particular discussion is about the US government coverup of 9/11. It seems that despite the massive evidence, you either want to deny it or defend it or both.



No I'm 100% correct, what's "partial" about that?



You can consider anything you want, so will I.

The partial is unless you have seen the documents you don't know if it shows the US govt did a cover up?

Pure speculation on your part.
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

It's only one of many reasons why the OCT (the fraction that they're trying to peddle) is not credible. Lie after lie has been exposed and the coverup is a fact.

And yet you will not explain how this changes the reality that 19 Bad Muslims attacked America on 9/11.

Only vagaries and accusation on your behalf.
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

The partial is unless you have seen the documents you don't know if it shows the US govt did a cover up?

The coverup is fact on its face. Withholding over 80,000 documents is a coverup. Especially given that we know for a fact withholding 28 pages is a coverup, that's not theory, it's an admission by several within government and formerly within government but in a position to know. If they're withholding a mere 28 pages on false grounds, why would anyone expect that at least a significant portion of those 80,000+ documents are not being withheld on false grounds? Where's the credibility here? And those 28 pages alone reveal Saudi financing of 9/11, not exactly a trivial piece of information. So then if they're hiding that, what else are they hiding in the next 80,000+ documents? And why on earth instead of denying the coverup, are YOU not asking those questions?

Pure speculation on your part.

No it's incontrovertible fact that you want to deny despite the massive evidence. I didn't make any of this up, the information comes from INSIDERS in a position to know, not what you would characterize as conspiracy theorists. Many of those CTs BTW, knew 9/11 was being covered up by the US government for many years now. They were right. Just another conspiracy theory of many that became conspiracy fact. We need to burn these CTs at the stake, they are scary witches.
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

And yet you will not explain how this changes the reality that 19 Bad Muslims attacked America on 9/11.

Even if it was a reality, that's not the issue here, the issue is the coverup of 9/11 by the US government. I already told you several times what the topic is, try to keep up.

Only vagaries and accusation on your behalf.

No the accusation comes from at least one person in a position to know. I agree with him based on all the incontrovertible hard evidence, as well as eyewitness and expert witness claims. You're in no position to contradict the evidence or the claims, just your denying opinion.
 
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