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Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”[W:506]

Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Henry David said:
The official story fails on its own. Whether the 28 pages are declassified or not does not really matter to those of us who already are able to see the Big Picture. The events of the day were staged, and virtually every branch of government, all 3 branches, have participated in a cover-up since Day One.
Click to expand...

Prove it.
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Bob0627 said:
If I were to give my honest, detailed opinion about him, I'd be mod bait, so I won't go any further with this other than to say he's not here to post what he really believes, that's pretty obvious, at least to me. That's true for the majority of OCT defenders here. The good news is that they have a 0% success rate in terms of influencing anyone to change their view.
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You are right, sometimes I really wonder if a few of them are actually real people posting and not just some type of "bot".

Also, ya, they might convince the stupidest of people to believe them, but for anyone with a modicum of critical thought it doesn't just not work, it makes people angry.
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

BmanMcfly said:
You are right, sometimes I really wonder if a few of them are actually real people posting and not just some type of "bot".

Also, ya, they might convince the stupidest of people to believe them, but for anyone with a modicum of critical thought it doesn't just not work, it makes people angry.
Click to expand...

Bman,

Why the insults?

And why do you continue to dodge the question?
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Is Putin bluffing, or is he going to release incriminating information? :confused:
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Bob0627 said:
The good news is that they have a 0% success rate in terms of influencing anyone to change their view.
Click to expand...

If that were true why are there so few so-called 9/11 Truthers left? Most of the major players and organizations in the 9/11 Truth biz have quit and moved on. Nobody shows up for rallies and protests anymore. Other than a few denialists on internet forums there is no effective 9/11 Truth movement anymore.
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Mark F said:
If that were true why are there so few so-called 9/11 Truthers left? Most of the major players and organizations in the 9/11 Truth biz have quit and moved on. Nobody shows up for rallies and protests anymore. Other than a few denialists on internet forums there is no effective 9/11 Truth movement anymore.
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So you're claiming there are only a few denialists on internet forums? So how they did get over 100,000 petition signers in NYC in about 3 months to put a petition on the ballot to investigate WTC7? Why are additional architects and engineers signing the AE911 petition nearly daily?
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Bob0627 said:
So you're claiming there are only a few denialists on internet forums? So how they did get over 100,000 petition signers in NYC in about 3 months to put a petition on the ballot to investigate WTC7? Why are additional architects and engineers signing the AE911 petition nearly daily?
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How many people live in New York?
How does that compare to how many VALID signatures were on the petition?
How did that petition do BTW?
How many A&E's are there in the world?
How many have signed Gage's petition.
What then is the percentage of eligible "experts" who have signed a benign and open-ended petition that calls on them to do (or believe) absolutely nothing?
How many of those who signed a few years ago would still sign today?

How many of ANY of the above are active 9/11 woo peddlers and how many just signed their name to a piece of paper and went on about their daily lives?

The 9/11 Truth Movement ain't dead, but it is on life support. Like I said, most of the big names and nearly all the big organizations have shut down and moved on. 9/11 Truth is barely a shadow of what it was even 3-4 years ago when I first started taking an interest in the subject. Nearly all those who were genuinely interested in the truth and could find it have.
 
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Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Mark F said:
How many people live in New York?
How does that compare to how many VALID signatures were on the petition?
How did that petition do BTW?
How many A&E's are there in the world?
How many have signed Gage's petition.
What then is the percentage of eligible "experts" who have signed a benign and open-ended petition that calls on them to do (or believe) absolutely nothing?
How many of those who signed a few years ago would still sign today?

How many of ANY of the above are active 9/11 woo peddlers and how many just signed their name to a piece of paper and went on about their daily lives?

The 9/11 Truth Movement ain't dead, but it is on life support. Like I said, most of the big names and nearly all the big organizations have shut down and moved on. 9/11 Truth is barely a shadow of what it was even 3-4 years ago when I first started taking an interest in the subject. Nearly all those who were genuinely interested in the truth and could find it have.
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Thanks for your concession that there are still hundreds of thousands, likely millions who haven't bought the 9/11 propaganda. Your denialist claims are just way too transparent. In any case, this topic is about the 28 redacted pages and the underlying government coverup of 9/11. Do you have any new information on that or you just want to discuss anything irrelevant to the topic, including making things up as a diversionary tactic?
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

dmvpolitical said:
Truthers: disprove anything in this report. please quote from the report as you "rebut" these facts
http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf
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I answered you in another thread, please don't spam every thread with the same issue. Start your own thread if that's what you want to discuss, this one is about the 28 redacted pages of the 9/11 Commission Report and the underlying implications of the government coverup of 9/11.
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Bob0627 said:
I answered you in another thread, please don't spam every thread with the same issue. Start your own thread if that's what you want to discuss, this one is about the 28 redacted pages of the 9/11 Commission Report and the underlying implications of the government coverup of 9/11.
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So, Bob.

Let us say there are some Saudis in the Saudi government that helped fund Al Qaeda....

How does that change the overall "official story"?
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Fledermaus said:
So, Bob.

Let us say there are some Saudis in the Saudi government that helped fund Al Qaeda....

How does that change the overall "official story"?
Click to expand...

Really??
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

BmanMcfly said:
Really??
Click to expand...

Can't answer the question?

Let us say there are some Saudis in the Saudi government that helped fund Al Qaeda....

How does that change the overall "official story"?

Tell me.

What changes?


BTW - Where have I been DISHONEST?
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Fund-raisers and facilitators throughout Saudi Arabia and the Gulf raised money for al Qaeda from witting and unwitting donors and divert funds from Islamic charities and mosques. The Commission staff found no evidence that the Saudi government as an institution or as individual senior officials knowingly support or supported al Qaeda; however, a lack of awareness of the problem and a failure to conduct oversight over institutions created an environment in which such activity has flourished

http://www.9-11commission.gov/staff_statements/911_TerrFin_Monograph.pdf

In fact this document discusses Saudi funding of Al Qaeda at length....
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Bush family ties to terror suspects re-opened by 9/11 '28 pages'

(just some excerpts)

As pressure builds to make public 28 pages of a joint congressional inquiry on 9/11 which was classified by President George W. Bush, the Bush family's well-documented relationships to Saudi and other foreign terror suspects are again coming to the fore.

North Carolina Republican Congressman Walter Jones told the New Yorker last September, of the what is now commonly known as the “28 Pages”:

"“There’s nothing in it about national security...It’s about the Bush Administration and its relationship with the Saudis.” "

Prominent in the rise of the political fortunes of both the 41st and 43rd presidents is the support of figures listed by the US government as terrorist financiers, as well as some connected to the now closed, Saudi-controlled criminal enterprise known as BCCI.
Of special interest to independent researchers is the failure of the nation's air defenses on 9/11, and the reliance of these defenses on the company formerly known as Ptech, which was founded with funding partly from Saudi financiers with ties to designated terrorist organizations. Ptech employed a mix of foreign nationals and Americans with ties to Israeli software companies with possible links to Israeli Mossad. Now renamed Go Agile, Ptech is a purveyor of software which is critical to the security of major software systems embedded throughout the FAA and the US Department of Defense.

Skipping ....

Two major investors in the 43rd president's early business ventures, Arbusto Energy and Harken Energy, were Salem bin Laden, Osama's older brother, and Khalid bin Mahfouz, a 20% stakeholder in BCCI, who was himself accused and investigated for financing terrorism. Mahfouz, who died in 2009, was known as the personal banker of the Saudi royal family.

Skipping ....

The Saudi-controlled BCCI played a central role in acting as a conduit for renegade CIA operations run by Lt. Col. Oliver North and General Richard Secord, with the elder Bush overseeing the operations from his position as vice president to Ronald Reagan and as a former director of the CIA. Known as the Iran-Contra Scandal in the Eighties, the renegade operation illegally sold thousands of Stinger missiles to the new Revolutionary Government of Iran, in exchange for Iran hurting President Jimmy Carter's prospects for re-election by holding onto American hostages in the 1979 Iran Hostage Crisis. (Senate Foreign Relations Committee Report)

Skipping ....

"“With the official blessing of George H. W. Bush as the head of the CIA, [Saudi Intelligence Minister Kamal] Adham transformed a small Pakistani merchant bank, the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI), into a world-wide money-laundering machine, buying banks around the world to create the biggest clandestine money network in history.”"

The elder Bush himself had an account at BCCI established while director of the CIA, discovered when French customs raids the Paris BCCI branch. Trento writes that BCCI tapped into:

Skipping ....

Bush Administrations Shuts Down Ptech Investigation

Ptech Pedigree Runs back to BCCI, Bush-Saudi Connection

Read the article:

Bush family ties to terror suspects re-opened by 9/11 '28 pages'

None of this is in the 9/11 Commission Report because it was all covered up by the Bush administration.
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

9/11 families' attorney still wants to haul Saudi Arabia into court

In 2002, the Sept. 11 victims' families filed a lawsuit in federal court against the government of Saudi Arabia for their alleged role in funding and supporting al-Qaeda. The lawsuit floundered in 2013 amidst delays and a lack of substantial evidence, but new information has emerged that may resurrect the lawsuit.

Statements from former al-Qaeda operative Zacarias Moussaoui suggest that members of the Saudi royal family had been major donors to the terrorist group as recently as the late 1990s.

Moussaoui gave his account last October to Jerry Goldman, a shareholder at Anderson Kill law firm and a lawyer for Sept. 11 victims' families, and other lawyers from the federal supermax prison in Florence, Colorado, where he is serving a life sentence.

“He has absolutely nothing to gain from this testimony, except for telling the truth,” says Goldman.

The Saudi government rejects Moussaoui’s 100-page testimony, which describes a close relationship between the government of Saudi Arabia and the al-Qaeda operatives who planned the 9/11 attacks. But Goldman says Moussaoui’s testimony fits within a broad historical pattern.

“The bad behavior that we allege of the Saudi royal family goes back a considerable period of time, and perhaps it’s still continuing,” he says. “That relevance is important, and most importantly, it’s relevance that the American people as a whole — not just the victims of 9/11 — need to understand what happened and [to know] that people are finally held accountable for the wrongs that they caused.”

In light of Moussaoui’s testimony, some believe the lawsuit should go ahead. But Goldman says it appears that the US government is shielding the Saudis.

“In our view, all of the information has not been released,” he says. “We’ve been working at this for 12 years and we’ve made a lot of progress, but there’s more progress to be made.”

Goldman says that he is waiting for the government to release the 28 pages redacted from the 9/11 Commission Report and the papers seized from Osama bin Laden's home in Pakistan several years ago — something federal officials have yet to do.

“We are confident at this point that when all of the evidence is revealed that our theory of the case linking the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to 9/11 will be found in a court of law,” he says. “The American people and the victims will then have justice.”

Read the rest ...

9/11 families' attorney still wants to haul Saudi Arabia into court | Public Radio International
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Fledermaus said:
Can't answer the question?

Let us say there are some Saudis in the Saudi government that helped fund Al Qaeda....

How does that change the overall "official story"?

Tell me.

What changes?


BTW - Where have I been DISHONEST?
Click to expand...

C'mon Maus, that's too damn easy.

If it is true that Saudi money was funding the activities of the "hijackers", then that rather makes OBL irrelevant, despite his Saudi heritage. If Saudis were supporting those guys, the AQ angle is fairly well a contrived story.

And on the political scene, the candidate Jeb Bush must be fighting truth and nail to keep the 28 pages secret. If it is released, his chances of nomination are greatly reduced because the incestuous relations between Bush and Saudi/bin Laden will bring back memories of a similar relationship between Grampa Prescott Bush and the Nazi regime in Germany WWII.
 
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Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Henry David said:
C'mon Maus, that's too damn easy.

If it is true that Saudi money was funding the activities of the "hijackers", then that rather makes OBL irrelevant, despite his Saudi heritage. If Saudis were supporting those guys, the AQ angle is fairly well a contrived story.
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That's ridiculous.
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Mark F said:
That's ridiculous.
Click to expand...

I suspect you know it's too damn true, and that is why you call it ridiculous. :cool:
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Henry David said:
C'mon Maus, that's too damn easy.

If it is true that Saudi money was funding the activities of the "hijackers", then that rather makes OBL irrelevant, despite his Saudi heritage. If Saudis were supporting those guys, the AQ angle is fairly well a contrived story.

And on the political scene, the candidate Jeb Bush must be fighting truth and nail to keep the 28 pages secret. If it is released, his chances of nomination are greatly reduced because the incestuous relations between Bush and Saudi/bin Laden will bring back memories of a similar relationship between Grampa Prescott Bush and the Nazi regime in Germany WWII.
Click to expand...

There WAS Saudi money funding Al Qaeda, And Qatari money, and Yemeni money.....

Why would OBL become irrelevant? And how would Saudis (and folks from practically every other country in the region) funding Al Qaeda make for "a contrived story"?

You are making no sense.,

And historical irrelevancies have little standing.
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

Most likely, I am making too much sense. :lol:
 
Re: Rep. Massie on 9/11 Documents: “It challenges you to re-think everything”

One of our resident professional deniers has often asked the question "is the FBI lying?", usually to defend the FBI's unsupported public claim that the agency investigated for explosives at GZ following 9/11. Based on a recent revelation by the FBI itself, the correct question should be "does the FBI ever tell the truth?".

FBI denounces own report linking Sarasota family to 9/11

(excerpts)

In a fresh report to Congress, the FBI now discredits its own field agent in charge of Southwest Florida for seemingly implicating a Saudi family that owned and occupied a home in Prestancia during the months leading up to the 9/11 attacks.

...

The federal agency now says that the FBI’s own secret report of April 16, 2002 — a key document in the news reports — “was poorly written and wholly unsubstantiated.”

“When questioned later by others in the FBI, the special agent who wrote the EC (Electronic Communication) was unable to provide any basis for the contents of the document or explain why he wrote it as he did,” according to the report, titled “The FBI: Protecting the Homeland in the 21st Century.”

...

The FBI documents were only revealed 10 years after the fact through repeated Freedom of Information Act requests by Dan Christensen, a veteran South Florida reporter who founded the what is now called the Florida Bulldog news organization.

The FBI report to Congress comes during a lengthy review of the agency’s complete 9/11 Southwest Florida archives by a federal judge in Fort Lauderdale.

...

“This seems to be an FBI-orchestrated event here, that was overseen by the agency,” Christensen said. “It was done essentially in secret, because there were no public hearings and nobody knew about it.”

...

The agency’s decision to discredit its own work in Sarasota and the censored chapter are connected, Graham told the Herald-Tribune on Thursday.

“While I cannot talk about the details of the 28-page report since it is classified, I can say they are devoted to who funded the hijackers while they were in the United States, and point a strong finger at Saudi Arabia as being the primary source,” Graham said.

“To that extent, the two are connected,” the former Florida governor said. “They go to whether you believe the hijackers acted alone or had support.”

The Freedom of Information Act court case, which started in September 2012, is being heard by U.S. District Court Judge William J. Zloch in Fort Lauderdale. Although ongoing, the last docket entry was on June 30, nine months ago.

Judge Zloch, a former University of Notre Dame quarterback who was nominated to the bench by President Ronald Reagan, now has access to about 80,000 pages of documents, many of which are classified as secret, that originally included the 84 pages that the FBI has gradually dribbled out to the plaintiffs in the case.

...

The April 2002 electronic memo is just one document out of 84 pages that the FBI has released to Christensen since he began his federal court case. Those pages equate to about a tenth of 1 percent of the 80,000 secret pages now being reviewed by Judge Zloch.

The pages are locked up, one chunk at a time, in a specially installed safe in the federal courthouse. According to court documents, Judge Zloch is only allowed to have part of them in his possession at any one time. He has to give back the pages he has read to get more, so that those on hand fit into the safe.

...

“When did they become aware of the unreliablitiy of this particular agent?” Graham asked. “Since they became aware of it, what have they done to commence a second review of activities in Sarasota with an agent or agents in whom they invest more confidence?”

FBI denounces own report linking Sarasota family to 9/11 | HeraldTribune.com

Of note here is that the FBI originally lied under oath and claimed there were 24 boxes of documents, then disclosed there were actually 27 boxes.

Document: 27 boxes of new secret 9/11 docs found in Florida, Judge trying to get them from FBI
 
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