Reagan on Socialized Medicine

SouthernDemocrat said:

Of course he should, and socialized healthcare provided him great healthcare until he died.



Its an unfunded liability just like healthcare in general is. Healthcare costs are skyrocketing for private sector providers as well.



He was wrong on every doom and gloom claim he made about it nearly 50 years ago. The fact that the economics of healthcare in the United States are broken today, and that effects Medicare just like it does every private insurer has nothing to do with the claims Reagan made.

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First off, I am pretty sure that Reagan had his own doctor after leaving the Presidency, and not the standard Medicare conveyor.

Second, you are correct that health care costs are out of control however I don't think the answer is to socialize the entire system, and do away with private health care.

Lastly, You are wrong that private insurance is taking the same hit as Medicare though, in reality private insurers last year I believe made something like a 2% profit. Not huge I agree, but still I believe Medicare is still hemorrhaging money, and running a deficit.


j-mac

Boo Radley said:

Says the person using the century old screaming of socialism. :2rofll::2rofll:

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Laugh all you want you are still doing nothing more that what MSNBC tells you to do....How's that feel.



j-mac

j-mac said:

First off, I am pretty sure that Reagan had his own doctor after leaving the Presidency, and not the standard Medicare conveyor.

Second, you are correct that health care costs are out of control however I don't think the answer is to socialize the entire system, and do away with private health care.

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I don't disagree, I just think using Reagan's speech as an argument against the healthcare bill is absurd considering all of Reagan's outlandish claims ended up being wrong. If anything, all Reagan's 1961 speech proves is that its a mistake to make outlandish claims about healthcare bills.

Lastly, You are wrong that private insurance is taking the same hit as Medicare though, in reality private insurers last year I believe made something like a 2% profit. Not huge I agree, but still I believe Medicare is still hemorrhaging money, and running a deficit.

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Medicare ran surpluses all the way until the current recession. The only reason why Health Insurers turn a profit is that they raise their rates and are selective on who they will insure. If Medicare raised its rates and payroll taxes every year like private insurers raise their rates, it would turn a huge profit just like the insurers do.

j-mac said:

Hey Skipper, still searching for the illegal private pmt thing, but came across this....





Yeah, totally keep your own insurance eh?


j-mac

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PolitiFact | Private health insurance not banned on page 16 of the House bill

You really just believe anything youre told, huh?

You honestly think that there's clauses to keep you from getting private insurance and for paying for any procedure yourself and that Rush and the republicans aren't blathering on about it endlessly ( I listen to all the typical conservative shows and hadn't heard a peep about this)? Check your facts before you go around spewing this kind of crap.

Sir Loin said:

Mr. Obama executes the "nuclear option" at his risk and at odds with the same public sentiment Reagan refers to here. Odd how little things have changed.

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This is NOT the "nuclear option". The nuclear option has to do with preventing the fillibuster. You really do need to stop depending on Fixed Noise for your news. :doh

Cripes that was dumb.

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Agreed. :2wave:

roughdraft274 said:

PolitiFact | Private health insurance not banned on page 16 of the House bill

You really just believe anything youre told, huh?

You honestly think that there's clauses to keep you from getting private insurance and for paying for any procedure yourself and that Rush and the republicans aren't blathering on about it endlessly ( I listen to all the typical conservative shows and hadn't heard a peep about this)? Check your facts before you go around spewing this kind of crap.

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Next he'll be talking about those "death panels". :doh

roughdraft274 said:

PolitiFact | Private health insurance not banned on page 16 of the House bill

You really just believe anything youre told, huh?

You honestly think that there's clauses to keep you from getting private insurance and for paying for any procedure yourself and that Rush and the republicans aren't blathering on about it endlessly ( I listen to all the typical conservative shows and hadn't heard a peep about this)? Check your facts before you go around spewing this kind of crap.

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Relying on the St Petersburg times, a known Obama biased site, eh?

4. Freedom to keep your existing plan

This is the freedom that the President keeps emphasizing. Yet the bills appear to say otherwise. It's worth diving into the weeds -- the territory where most pundits and politicians don't seem to have ventured.

The legislation divides the insured into two main groups, and those two groups are treated differently with respect to their current plans. The first are employees covered by the Employee Retirement Security Act of 1974. ERISA regulates companies that are self-insured, meaning they pay claims out of their cash flow, and don't have real insurance. Those are the GEs (GE, Fortune 500) and Time Warners (TWX, Fortune 500) and most other big companies.

The House bill states that employees covered by ERISA plans are "grandfathered." Under ERISA, the plans can do pretty much what they want -- they're exempt from standard packages and community rating and can reward employees for healthy lifestyles even in restrictive states.

But read on.

The bill gives ERISA employers a five-year grace period when they can keep offering plans free from the restrictions of the "qualified" policies offered on the exchanges. But after five years, they would have to offer only approved plans, with the myriad rules we've already discussed. So for Americans in large corporations, "keeping your own plan" has a strict deadline. In five years, like it or not, you'll get dumped into the exchange. As we'll see, it could happen a lot earlier.

The outlook is worse for the second group. It encompasses employees who aren't under ERISA but get actual insurance either on their own or through small businesses. After the legislation passes, all insurers that offer a wide range of plans to these employees will be forced to offer only "qualified" plans to new customers, via the exchanges.

The employees who got their coverage before the law goes into effect can keep their plans, but once again, there's a catch. If the plan changes in any way -- by altering co-pays, deductibles, or even switching coverage for this or that drug -- the employee must drop out and shop through the exchange. Since these plans generally change their policies every year, it's likely that millions of employees will lose their plans in 12 months.

You'll lose 5 key freedoms under Obama's health care plan - Jul. 24, 2009

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j-mac

j-mac said:

Relying on the St Petersburg times, a known Obama biased site, eh?





j-mac

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Sigh...

Find me somewhere where they actually show you the legislation and quotes the part that will prohibit you from getting private health insurance so I can prove you wrong. Linking some moron who writes editorials for the cnn website proves nothing. Especially when he's talking about an old bill that has been changed through all the committees and then doesn't even link to the text that he's talking about. Show me the actual text like the one you did before and I'll show you where your wrong.

Also, for the first post you made, go to damn near any conservative site that used your link as proof of what you were saying has retracted their statements and instead say "well yeah we were wrong, but Obama will regulate it till all the insurance companies are gone!" without any evidence for their assertion.

Is the heritage foundation conservative enough for you?

Does the House Plan Outlaw Private Insurance? | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News.
"So IBD is wrong: individual health insurance will not be outlawed. But it will be effectively regulated out of existence… which is effectively the same thing."

You'll be so kind as to notice that you didn't even try to refute my post, just throw out that you don't like the site. Grow a pair and actually stick to your guns. Show me how my link was wrong. Instead you want to just list example after example of the stupid lies being spread about bill, lol.

If you want to make the idiotic assertion that the bill outlaws private insurance then you need to show me where it states this. It shouldn't be hard to find if it really does. It would be on every conservative website and radio show and tv show.

j-mac said:

Laugh all you want you are still doing nothing more that what MSNBC tells you to do....How's that feel.



j-mac

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Hard for them to do that as I don't watch MSNBC.

J, be more original. The fact is Reagan was wrong, and these talking points you spout are not even original talking points, but those that have been retread since long before Reagan.

roughdraft274 said:

Sigh...

Find me somewhere where they actually show you the legislation and quotes the part that will prohibit you from getting private health insurance so I can prove you wrong. Linking some moron who writes editorials for the cnn website proves nothing. Especially when he's talking about an old bill that has been changed through all the committees and then doesn't even link to the text that he's talking about. Show me the actual text like the one you did before and I'll show you where your wrong.

Also, for the first post you made, go to damn near any conservative site that used your link as proof of what you were saying has retracted their statements and instead say "well yeah we were wrong, but Obama will regulate it till all the insurance companies are gone!" without any evidence for their assertion.

Is the heritage foundation conservative enough for you?

Does the House Plan Outlaw Private Insurance? | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News.
"So IBD is wrong: individual health insurance will not be outlawed. But it will be effectively regulated out of existence… which is effectively the same thing."

You'll be so kind as to notice that you didn't even try to refute my post, just throw out that you don't like the site. Grow a pair and actually stick to your guns. Show me how my link was wrong. Instead you want to just list example after example of the stupid lies being spread about bill, lol.

If you want to make the idiotic assertion that the bill outlaws private insurance then you need to show me where it states this. It shouldn't be hard to find if it really does. It would be on every conservative website and radio show and tv show.

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:roll:


j-mac

j-mac said:

:roll:


j-mac

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Lol, you highlighted my point exactly. They claim that he'll do something and give no evidence for it. Along with that you actually refuse to accept the fact that you were wrong on your first point. You read that article and believed it without even 1 second of critical thought to see if it was believable, lol. Now the best you'll do is throw around emoticons.

If anyone else on the forum wants to know what the new conservative white flag for surrender is, take note - :roll:

roughdraft274 said:

Lol, you highlighted my point exactly. They claim that he'll do something and give no evidence for it. Along with that you actually refuse to accept the fact that you were wrong on your first point. You read that article and believed it without even 1 second of critical thought to see if it was believable, lol. Now the best you'll do is throw around emoticons.

If anyone else on the forum wants to know what the new conservative white flag for surrender is, take note - :roll:

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When I find it I'll be sure and let you know, believe me.....But now that I know that slander, and childishness is a part of your style, I'll do it in my time....thanks.


j-mac

j-mac said:

When I find it I'll be sure and let you know, believe me.....But now that I know that slander, and childishness is a part of your style, I'll do it in my time....thanks.


j-mac

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Slander?

I love this. In the conservative world, proving their talking points wrong equates with slander.


Also, I love how you talked yourself into believing that somehow I was rushing you to answer. It's that big bad liberal conspiracy.

Do you really just expect people to give you the benefit of the doubt on matters like this? If you want to be able to spout out conspiracy theories like this and not be fact checked call glenn beck or rush limbaugh.

j-mac said:

When I find it I'll be sure and let you know, believe me.....But now that I know that slander, and childishness is a part of your style, I'll do it in my time....thanks.


j-mac

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I won't be holding my breath then.

j-mac said:

Really? And what is Medicare's unfunded liability today? 37 Trillion? Yeah great success! :roll:


j-mac

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And who caused that unfunded liability to happen? Who signed that bill into law?

j-mac said:

I think this speech speaks for itself.

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Speaking of messiahs... who cares what this shriveled up hag thought? He's not the president anymore and he's not even in government anymore. In fact, he's dead.

His era of spreading fear and paranoia about the red army is exactly why people are stupifyingly afraid of any government reforms.

SouthernDemocrat said:

He (Reagon) made all these outlandish claims about Medicare would lead to Socialism / Communism and the destruction of American Democracy and a whole host of doom and gloom. He stated that doctors would be told by the government where to live and where to practice, and that "you and I are going to spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it once was like in America when men were free."

He was wrong on all counts. He spent his sunset years in California with healthcare paid for by the government.

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LMAO...how true, how true. This is the kind of thing Pres. Obama mentioned during the health care summit. He called out Republican members of Congress during the summit and asked them directly would they give up their government sponsored health care in favor of current health care legistlation? He even said it twice that the American people deserve the same level of health care benefits at a fair market price as members of Congress receive. I sat and watched as not one Republican said one word; not one was willing to pay for health care out of their own pockets, yet they rangle with the cost of OUR health care while placing the blame - good, bad or indifferent - on Democrats for atleast trying to work out something that comes close to all-inclusive health care legistlation while one half of the Congressional body does nothing but complain. Yet every one of them knows full well that as long as they hold public office their health care is paid for and that they won't get dropped from coverage.

But here WE are, aveage citizens ready to lash out at each other over what? Matters of priciple? Is health care a right or a privilage? Should gov't set standards or are they telling us what type of health care benefits we should receive and how much it will cost? Nevermind that the Dept. of Health and Human Services have been setting public health care policies for the entire country since its creation in 1953 (then the Dept. of Education and Welfare; renamed in 1979 to its current title), as well as setting health standards across a broad spectrum of health care initiatives that affect our everyday lives from the foods we eat to the scientific medical breakthroughs many of us take advantage of today.

Seems to me every former President, Congressman and Senator have all benefited from "government-sponsored" health care while digging that political divide deeper and deeper into the American conscienceness and for who's purpose? Who truly reap the benefits of their particianship? You? Me? I don't think so.

For once, I'm tired of hearing how one side wants to do this while the other wants no part of it. I've seen what not having health care coverage can do to your family budget. I've seen what happens when a child is denied health care coverage because they just got too old under the rules when in fact they're still a kid just getting started in this world. I've seen when insurance companies play perform their little administrative tricks to deny you what was suppose to be a covered benefit. And I've seen first hand how difficult it is to maintain a household when one-half of your income goes away and with it goes your employer-based health care. (Fortunately, I'm still employed. So, my family can go back on my health care plan, but it'll be a month before benefits are picked up again. Hopefully, no one in my family gets sick between now and April 1.)

This is the reality, folks. And until it happened to me, I was just fine with the "status quo". NO MORE! This country needs health care reform, good, bad or indifferent. We can't wait anymore. Too many families and businesses are going broke because of the rising cost and not being able to look outside the state-regulated limits/employer-sponsored accessability of insurance coverage.