Re: Obamacare - What would you like changed?

[MaggieD]

Re: Obamacare - What would you like changed?

If a business is forced to take such measures to work around an otherwise destructively-burdensome bit of excessive government interference, your solution is to inflict even more unwarranted government interference? More of the same poison that caused the sickness in the first place.

Works for hangovers.

To be honest ...I could be convinced ...but right now I'm against the aspect of Obama-care that includes an individual against their will. When I was younger ..for decades I went without insurance. I was working ...but I felt like exercising everyday, eating well, and staying away from risky behaviors was all I needed to do. And it worked just fine for me.
I think what angers many people is ...just standing here by yourself under Obama-care ...means you owe somebody money!!

You can not own a house and avoid property taxes on a house you already own...not won a car and avoid car insurance .....but you can't free yourself of some form of health insurance.

See...until I see an insurer with a scapel in hand performing surgery...I forever question the need for this middleman. And I fear that even if the rates for Obama care are reasonable today ....tomorrow that can quickly change ...and you can't opted out of it. That's a frightening prospect. Insurers have no other interest in the health care business ....but to profit.....under Obama care that hasn't change.

I blame the republicans for not being rational about this law and try to shape it rather than resist it!!

You were lucky. And you were young. Disliking the insurance industry makes you one of the majority. Want to drop a bomb at a cocktail party? Just mention you sell insurance. People scatter like flies. Ha!

What would have happened to you had you gotten a serious illness while you didn't have insurance? Or a serious accident? You could have easily been destroyed. Now, maybe you had nothing to lose. No house . . . no savings . . . In that case, you would have gone the rest of your life, perhaps, with the lousy credit that ruins people's futures -- like a $75,000 judgement against you that wouldn't go away.

As to being forced to purchase health insurance? You're not. You have a choice. The AHA says, if you decide not to purchase insurance at all, you're going to pay a penalty. An inconsequential one at that.

But they don't negotiate better rates. My rates outside the company I work for are considerably better than the ones my company offers. For that matter, the portion that I would have to pay going through my company is higher than the rates I pay on my own. Wouldn't it be better if they just put the money in a paycheck and let you get your own?

I can't speak to what you're saying because I don't know if you're comparing apples to oranges re your company's rates vs what you can purchase on your own. I personally think that's exactly what you're doing since group health insurance, to my knowledge, is always cheaper than what you can buy comparable coverage for as an individual.

 

[FederalRepublic]

Re: Obamacare - What would you like changed?

I can't speak to what you're saying because I don't know if you're comparing apples to oranges re your company's rates vs what you can purchase on your own. I personally think that's exactly what you're doing since group health insurance, to my knowledge, is always cheaper than what you can buy comparable coverage for as an individual.

No. Group health insurance is not always cheaper than individual. My company offers similar plans through the same carrier. The cheapest one they offer is more than double what I pay. That's been the case at the last three places I've worked--probably more than that, but I just started paying attention to it 3 jobs ago. As a matter of fact, I would venture a guess that group policies are always more expensive because they don't account for pre-existing conditions. If you're part of the group, they have to take you and the rest of the group pays the costs.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Obamacare - What would you like changed?

No. Group health insurance is not always cheaper than individual. My company offers similar plans through the same carrier. The cheapest one they offer is more than double what I pay. That's been the case at the last three places I've worked--probably more than that, but I just started paying attention to it 3 jobs ago. As a matter of fact, I would venture a guess that group policies are always more expensive because they don't account for pre-existing conditions. If you're part of the group, they have to take you and the rest of the group pays the costs.

I still doubt that, Federal. First there's this:

The first difference between the two types of coverage is cost. Affordability is perhaps the deciding factor as to why individuals opt to have a group health plan instead of individual health insurance coverage. The set rate for a group of individuals is much cheaper than buying for just one individual. It’s like buying wholesale. And because group health insurance is typically very comprehensive, each employee will not have to pay any additional fees unless anyone opts for additional benefits that are not offered to the group.

http://www.healthcare.org/resource-center/individual-vs-group-health-insurance/

Second, almost all companies offering group health insurance subsidize the cost to some extent; some more than others, obviously. And this subsidy comes to you tax free. When you're purchasing your own health insurance, you're paying for it with after-tax dollars.

I'm fairly certain that you're comparing a bare bones policy with one that has less out-of-pocket in case of serious illness. (Sorry...but health insurance is a "hot button" for me, and I'm confident I'm very well informed.)

 

[Comunitee]

Re: Obamacare - What would you like changed?

I never worried about whether the market was free. I worried about what I had to bring to the market. I've been an entrepreneur most of my life, but when I was in Corporate America, or even when I waited tables, I was "the best." (Not bragging, just honest.) I was always the best employee, the one who worked the hardest, the one who got along with everybody, the one who found a mentor who could tell me how to get ahead (and wanted to tell me because I was likeable).

What it taught me is that most employees are mediocre at best. Just be slightly better? You can write your own ticket. Start writing, baby!!!

"Better" is subjective. "Better" is an opinion. You think you were the best? That doesn't matter. Whether you are or not, what really matters is, Can you convince the person with the power that you are? If you can, you'll make it; if you can't, actually having quantifiable evidence that you were the best won't matter a damn.

We have quantifiable evidence, gathered over 84 years (1929 to 2013) that liberal economics works better than conservative economics, that liberal foreign policy works better than conservative foreign policy, that climate change is real and caused by man, and (even older evidence than the preceding) that Jesus said to help the poor instead of the rich. But as long as John Boehner has the power in the U.S. House of Representatives, none of that evidence matters.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Obamacare - What would you like changed?

"Better" is subjective. "Better" is an opinion. You think you were the best? That doesn't matter. Whether you are or not, what really matters is, Can you convince the person with the power that you are? If you can, you'll make it; if you can't, actually having quantifiable evidence that you were the best won't matter a damn.

We have quantifiable evidence, gathered over 84 years (1929 to 2013) that liberal economics works better than conservative economics, that liberal foreign policy works better than conservative foreign policy, that climate change is real and caused by man, and (even older evidence than the preceding) that Jesus said to help the poor instead of the rich. But as long as John Boehner has the power in the U.S. House of Representatives, none of that evidence matters.

Wow, do you get monthly deliveries of that Kool-Aid or is it piped in with the water supply?

 

[Comunitee]

Re: Obamacare - What would you like changed?

We can have a conversation, Mr. Speaker, as soon as you grow a pair and STOP lying.
The past has shown the President more than willing to throw his Base under the bus, with Keystone--repeal of medical equipment tax--chained CPI--sequester--accepting House Repub budget numbers.

Hell, the very fact that we even HAVE Heritagecare, a.k.a. Romneycare, under the nickname Obamacare, is a massive concession, one that Bill Clinton wasn't willing to make 20 years ago -- and he was willing to make even more concessions than Obama: NAFTA (though I admit I supported that at the time), welfare "reform," the Defense of Marriage Act, the Telecommunications Act, Gramm-Leach-Bliley (which repealed Glass-Steagall).

Plenty of Presidents have made compromises. I'm going to start a new thread about that, because I don't want this post to be too long.

 

[Comunitee]

Re: Obamacare - What would you like changed?

"Better" is subjective. "Better" is an opinion. You think you were the best? That doesn't matter. Whether you are or not, what really matters is, Can you convince the person with the power that you are? If you can, you'll make it; if you can't, actually having quantifiable evidence that you were the best won't matter a damn.

We have quantifiable evidence, gathered over 84 years (1929 to 2013) that liberal economics works better than conservative economics, that liberal foreign policy works better than conservative foreign policy, that climate change is real and caused by man, and (even older evidence than the preceding) that Jesus said to help the poor instead of the rich. But as long as John Boehner has the power in the U.S. House of Representatives, none of that evidence matters.

Wow, do you get monthly deliveries of that Kool-Aid or is it piped in with the water supply?

You can use the word "Kool-Aid" all you want, but it will never change the truth. The truth is, conservatism doesn't freaking work.

 

[FederalRepublic]

Re: Obamacare - What would you like changed?

I still doubt that, Federal. First there's this:



http://www.healthcare.org/resource-center/individual-vs-group-health-insurance/

Second, almost all companies offering group health insurance subsidize the cost to some extent; some more than others, obviously. And this subsidy comes to you tax free. When you're purchasing your own health insurance, you're paying for it with after-tax dollars.

I'm fairly certain that you're comparing a bare bones policy with one that has less out-of-pocket in case of serious illness. (Sorry...but health insurance is a "hot button" for me, and I'm confident I'm very well informed.)

Are you kidding me? Should I believe healthcare.org over my own lying eyes? Even if what you're saying about comparing apples to oranges were true (it isn't, by the way), the individual insurance available to me that fits my needs is considerably less expensive than company contribution to the cheapest option my company offers.

 

[FederalRepublic]

Re: Obamacare - What would you like changed?

Wow, do you get monthly deliveries of that Kool-Aid or is it piped in with the water supply?

I was thinking I.V. drip.

 

[Linc]

Re: Obamacare - What would you like changed?

How are the Interstates of Life these days, jerry?
I was able to prove to some of your folks that more and more schools have concealed-carry in their building.

I would change it so that it no longer existed.

 

[Linc]

Re: Obamacare - What would you like changed?

Repubs complain they discarded HeritageCare and we went through their garbage for ideas.
So now, we must call it HeritageUsedToCare.

Hell, the very fact that we even HAVE Heritagecare, a.k.a. Romneycare, under the nickname Obamacare, is a massive concession, one that Bill Clinton wasn't willing to make 20 years ago -- and he was willing to make even more concessions than Obama: NAFTA (though I admit I supported that at the time), welfare "reform," the Defense of Marriage Act, the Telecommunications Act, Gramm-Leach-Bliley (which repealed Glass-Steagall).

Plenty of Presidents have made compromises. I'm going to start a new thread about that, because I don't want this post to be too long.

 

[Buck Ewer]

Re: Obamacare - What would you like changed?

By the way, I was not quoting the mis-quote. I quoted you directly. See below for reference.

...and here I thought you guys had something to debate ...:sigh:
Guess I was wrong ... :no:
Your here just to play stupid games...:laughat:

 

[AngryOldGuy]

Re: Obamacare - What would you like changed?

Shame on you.

 

[Jerry]

And the way to help people who can't afford health insurance is to double or triple the price of it, and then try to force them to buy it. Normal liberal thinking.

The only reason the government wants to get into healthcare is so they can use it to leverage more fear down the road.

 

[Jerry]

How are the Interstates of Life these days, jerry?
I was able to prove to some of your folks that more and more schools have concealed-carry in their building.

Is this the part where I google "Interstates of Life" so I know what you're talking about?

 

[Arbo]

Re: Obamacare - What would you like changed?

I said take the profit out of HEALTH INSURANCE

How many businesses are in business to not make a profit? How many people open businesses with the hope of making zero profit? What business would be next on your list of businesses to go after to ensure they make no profit?

 

[Linc]

Re: Obamacare - What would you like changed?

No, that's a "NIMBY/Linc" special.
I've called off western trips for now.

Is this the part where I google "Interstates of Life" so I know what you're talking about?

When the shutdown is over, I'll be making a trip from here to the Black Hills/Custer State/Mt. Rushmore.

 

[FederalRepublic]

Re: Obamacare - What would you like changed?

How are the Interstates of Life these days, jerry?
I was able to prove to some of your folks that more and more schools have concealed-carry in their building.

You're welcome for that...

 

[Buck Ewer]

Re: Obamacare - What would you like changed?

Shame on you.

Scat on you, coward.

 

[FederalRepublic]

Re: Obamacare - What would you like changed?

The only reason the government wants to get into healthcare is so they can use it to leverage more fear down the road.

You know, every time I hear a "progressive" bitch about the republicans shutting down the government with terrorist tactics, I wonder what it is that makes them think it's a good idea to let terrorists control their health care. Here's what it sounds like to me:

"I hate those people! I've got a good idea though. Let's give them the authority to run my health care and easy access to all my medical records! That will show those terrorist assholes!"

 

[FederalRepublic]

Re: Obamacare - What would you like changed?

How many businesses are in business to not make a profit? How many people open businesses with the hope of making zero profit? What business would be next on your list of businesses to go after to ensure they make no profit?

How about farmers? People have to eat, so it's unethical for farmers to make a profit. Those greedy bastards.

 

[AngryOldGuy]

Re: Obamacare - What would you like changed?

Scat on you, coward.

 

[Arbo]

Re: Obamacare - What would you like changed?

How about farmers? People have to eat, so it's unethical for farmers to make a profit. Those greedy bastards.

Exactly... who's next in line for a government take over?

 

[SeekingWisdom]

Re: Obamacare - What would you like changed?

Indeed. We should assume that the Affordable Care Act is not "going away. And here is why:


No matter what your position on the spectrum of political ideology, I think we can all agree - competition requires rules.

All competitions are governed by rules. As in boxing, football, chess and so many others, if competitor(s) on one side choose not to play by the rules, they are disqualified, often in contempt. If they play by the rules and lose, most accept their loss with dignity. Democracy is also a competition - of ideas and of ideals. And voting is the ultimate action on the 'field.'

Of course, this isn't the only critically important competition in our government. Our congress competes on every bill that is introduced. Typically, the members of the House or Senate introduce a Bill and, after much back-and-forth negotiating between both parties and the various factions via committees, finally agree that a it merits moving forward, or not. If the Bill gets approved in that chamber, the other chamber then goes through much the same process. If approved by that chamber, then the negotiating between the Senate and the House begins, with many amendments from both sides, along the way. Often, months go buy. Only when both houses, and therefore both parties, agree that they have a 'win' (the legislation that results from the initial Bill), does it go the the President for final approval. This is often a very intense competition.

On the issue of the Affordable Care Act (ACA), as President Obama has stated, Democrats and the American people have already won the competition, not once, not twice, but three times. After nearly a year, the House and the Senate voted to pass the legislation and the President approved it; when challenged, the Supreme Court found it constitutional; and with the ACA as a key differentiator in the 2012 election, the competition was won again. Handily.

Voting, whether by the public or in the halls of Congress, is a competition. The other side lost. They are now acting like school children who are throwing a fit because they don’t like the outcome of a fair, rules based, competition. Still worse, they think they deserve the right to play the game again, with their own rules.

Actually, they want to play with no rules. They lost the Superbowl but they want to take back the rings from the winning team . And they are prepared to shoot the ref’s, the spectators, and perhaps those who watched on television, if they don’ get the Superbowl rings back. The American people would never allow this kind of behavior in the competition we know as football!

Do not settle for anything less in government than we expect on the football field.

Challenge those who whine when they lose.

 

[Buck Ewer]

Re: Obamacare - What would you like changed?

http://i47.tinypic.com/2rd94iv.jpg[/IMG[/QUOTE]
Childish and cowardly...
Losing combination, you old fool.:lamo