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Just another gimmick isn't it? Just like the idea of marching louts to cashpoints to pay on-the-spot fines!
It's a wonderful concept but you know people in charge just can't be trusted. The schools were politically-correct enough when I was there 15-25 years ago but even then the teachers were institutionally useless.
At one point I had a weight problem and unsurprisingly I'd get grief for it. Some kids got a bit violent but even then nothing really got done about it, despite the jellynecked trendy teachers urging me to 'leave it to us to sort out'.
But after I finally snapped and gave some recurrent bullies a taste of their own torment, the verminous head of year had me on the carpet for aggressive behaviour!
And now with Government initiatives to 'understand' and protect bullies, with schools urged not to even expel scumbag kids any more, why shouldn't we have reason to believe that things have only got worse?
(But I suppose the countless extra kids now suffering from bullies will learn extra early that our pillars of community and trendy politicians are either useless, misguided or rotten enough to be unable to deliver the promised utopia. At least that's something.)
BBC News | Education | Primary school bullying 'on increase'
Bullying is on the increase, say young people
Schools fined for expelling violent pupils - Telegraph
Mother banned from school for confronting her son's bully | Mail Online
Classroom thugs told: Disrupt school and win an iPod! | Mail Online
I know most kids play at being the bully from time to time. Even I did at one point and would have been cruising for a bruising if I'd have gone much further. (Actually, I did get a whack once and I can't deny it sorted my bullying problem! I thought 'Wow, have I hurt this bloke that bad?')
But there's a world of difference between basically good kids pushing the boundaries and the hardcore nasties, hence your contrasting stories.
But what I'm saying is that whilst a few softly-softly measures are likely to work with those kids needing just a prod back to the straight and narrow, the more feral ones see it as weakness if the stronger punishments are done away with.
One size definitely does not fit all.
I'm not saying the issue is a gimmick, just the sticking plaster over the septic wound.
"I doubt how much punishments would help the more 'feral' ones as I imagine they are already suffering some 'punishment' already, most likely in the form of beatings and humiliations."
Who by? Name these avengers!
That's just where the problem lies as the political establishment have drugged themselves on that logic, hence the absurdity of current legislation and school rules.
This bizarre assumption that hurt feelings of really bad kids can be used to nullify the need for strong punishment is the very weakness they exploit. I know from experience that really bad kids think that their behaviour can't be all that bad if all they receive for their terror campaigns is a lecture in the headmaster's room. They don't even get guaranteed expulsion now, as I said. What other reaction can a victim have but to close his eyes and wait for the storm to finish?
At the same time as the louts are re-discovering the boundaries and saving the rest of the kids, then you can look at their backgrounds and find any problems there and not before. Lots of kids may be being abused by their parents for example, but most don't turn out like those warped lowlifes. And you can't just let them get away with it.
They're at the start of things at that age. I think younger kids can be saved with some protection for the victim and a few stiff words and a push against the bullies without need for anything more.
When they're that age things are less entrenched. If there'll be any real victories with the anti-bullying campaign it will probably be in the primary schools.
We need a joined-up government with no mixed messages and sanctions more in tune with the perspective of the bullies rather than the politicians, teachers or social workers.
Yes, when I bullied that kid I also got ticked off by the staff. But when I also stood up to bullies myself I still got punished. And I can say that that's endemic. And on my level you can't get more mixed a message than that.
With regard to you getting blamed for what you did. Well yes you did because you said you were aggressive and you were caught. The bullies were not. The school really had no option.
Did you complain to the staff about the bullying beforehand?
I have no doubt we can talk about this all day. But I can wait an eternity for the subject of personal responsibility to come up, until I mention it.
Ooo, you can't punish Smasher Simpkins Mr headmaster, because he's got Munchybiscuits Syndrome By Proxy, or gets his head kicked in by other undesirables. It's not because he's some villainous little lout who knows full well setting fire to the maths teacher is wrong!
Is no bully responsible for his/her actions any more?
Is it always the case to scrabble round for some kind of external factor to ring-fence serious bullies off from the consequences they should suffer? Hell, in your world the 'softer' bullies get worse stigma than the real hardcore louts, more of whom just do it for kicks than liberals care to admit. (Indeed, yobs who lived on my street didn't come from dysfunctional families or suffered in any way. They were just 'mayhem on the football terraces' vermin and such.)
Workshops only work for some, those who want to rehabilitate.
For others, the softly-softly is just wasted, hence the need for high security jails until the end of time. You've just got to punish those who don't want to get back to the straight and narrow, or those who aren't ready yet. And if they're too boneheaded to learn from either a 'quiet chat' or the harder stuff, then you just keep them out of the way of their victims for as long as it takes.
As you say, victims come first.
I think I at least indicated earlier that normal kids like your brother shouldn't have gotten the cane. Especially where sadistic teachers may have been involved. But as I say, the difference between the brutal schoolyard thugs and the ordinary kids puffing themselves up a bit or just getting things wrong is stark. The cane should be returned but used in context and very rarely.
By all means campaign to stop child abuse and street gangs. They're a danger to society as a whole, not just to the rats the older louts breed. It's up to a responsible government to lock up the villains and bullying parents and hold the 'hoody' generation in line.
So... if you can't cane them, isolate them, expel them or ridicule them, what can you do? What if the other kids 'standing up' fails?
I was retaliating at the end of my rope. The bullies were aggressive. I told the teachers (as I said), but the bullying did not stop.
The school did have options. In those days anyway there was at least islolation, expulsion or detentions by the hundredweight to keep bullies out of the way. They failed to utilise all the options and any they may have tried obviously failed.
Once again, it's blame the victim time from the Liberal brigade. I'm not a sheep, I'll have you know. I was always being told by teachers not to pester them over the bullying. I wouldn't be surprised if the suicidal victims joined the far right parties!
From what we see in the news and amongst friends, it looks like the bullying policies are just treading water. You've just got to put up with it kids. If the Liberal hogwash fails, you're not allowed to do anything yourself. 'Steps over the line and you should know better', see.
Nobody's guilty for anything are they? Not to make them worthy of punishment. The fact that you laugh at the idea of murderous scumbags being locked up for the period they deserve says it all.
Just one question - if your daughter was killed rather than just pestered, would you still be waffling so sanctimoniously about villains being the 'victims' when punished?
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