I have a Bible and have read it. You confuse me because I am pretty sure that after the Rapture that everyone who was saved goes to Heaven? Are you talking about the meek shall inherit the Earth? I mean the Bible as I read it says that those saved will go to Heaven and those not go to hell? What you are talking about reminds me of the way the jehovah witness take the bible. Are you a Jehovah Witness?
LOL No I am not a Jehovah Witness. Southern Bell asked if we could discuss my views on the rapture and now you have brought it up so I may as well just give a combined post on my Biblical views. This is strictly just my opinion. Not saying that this is the way it is I am just saying this is the way I believe it is.
Do the righteous dead go up to heaven?
Baker's Evangelical Dictionary
of Biblical Theology
Abraham’s Bosom - Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology
Abraham's Bosom
Unique phrase found in a parable of Jesus describing the place where Lazarus went after death (Luke 16:19-31). It is a figurative phrase that appears to have been drawn from a popular belief that the righteous would rest by Abraham's side in the world to come, an opinion described in Jewish literature at the time of Christ. The word kolpos [kovlpo"] literally refers to the side or lap of a person. Figuratively, as in this case, it refers to a place of honor reserved for a special guest, similar to its usage in John 13:23. In the case of Lazarus, the reserved place is special because it is beside Abraham, the father of all the righteous.
The phrase may be synonymous to the paradise promised to the thief on the cross (Luke 23:43). Together these passages support the conviction that a believer enjoys immediate bliss at the moment of physical death.
In the gospel of Luke Jesus says to the thief on the cross,
Lu 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Not heaven. Paradise is a compartment of the Jewish Sheol. One side is hell and the other side is paradise. This is described in Luke.
Lu 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Lu 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Lu 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot *; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Now lets look at something Peter wrote.
1pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
This is another one of those verses that are in dispute. Christian theology claims that there is no salvation for the dead. So some say that the spirits that Christ actually preached to are angels. But either way this is supposedly the point where all of a sudden believers started going to heaven instead of to paradise. But then the bible throws another kink into the teachings of the church. Paradise is again mentioned in Revelation.
Re 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
So here we have the last living apostle still talking about paradise in the last written book of the bible. So how do we deal with this problem? Simple. Move paradise to heaven.
Foundations: Studies in Bible Theology
In fact, Jesus actually took the "location" called paradise and all the saints dwelling there, to the third heaven.
It is therefore significant that whereas, Jesus speaks of "paradise" being in the earth (hades), which we know by comparing Luke 16:22-23; 23:43 and Ephesians 4:9, Paul speaks of "paradise" being in the 3rd heaven at 2 Corinthians 12:1-4.
There is much more that can be said on this showing the verses that the church's use that they claim support the belief that believers now go to heaven but you really have to engage in a taffy pull for all the verses used and jump to conclusions that the some of the verses do not even provide support for. There is no doubt at least scripturally that the soul survives the body and goes someplace. The bible confirms that the soul of the believer goes to be with the Lord. But considering that the lord has the ability to be in all places at the same time to say that Jesus is in heaven so all believers must be in heaven is not really taking all the evidence and possibilities into consideration.
But where ever they are they are still in the presence of the lord and they are not sad burdened or worried.
Ok now the rapture.
The original church never taught a pre or mid tribulation rapture in fact the doctrine is only a couple of hundred years old.
The Dispensational Origins of Modern Premillennialism and John Nelson Darby
The doctrine of a secret rapture was first conceived by John Nelson Darby of the Plymouth Brethren in 1827. Darby, known as the father of dispensationalism, invented the doctrine claiming there were not one, but two "second comings." This teaching was immediately challenged as unbiblical by other members of the Brethren. Samuel P. Tregelles, a noted biblical scholar, rejected Darby's new interpretation as the "height of speculative nonsense." So tenuous was Darby's rapture theory that he had lingering doubts about it as late as 1843, and possibly 1845. Another member of the Plymouth Brethren, B.W. Newton, disputed Darby's new doctrine claiming such a conclusion was only possible if one declared certain passages to be "renounced as not properly ours
Long before I had heard of this I still could not see how the verses the Pre and Mid tribs used to support their rapture doctrines really fit what they were trying to insist was true. You really have to make some stretches to even come close to making them work
For instance from revelation,
Re 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter .
Many rapture believers claim that this verse is proof of pre mid trib rapture. You really have to do a taffy pull on this and even then it does not work. The belief is that the first 3 chapters deal with the church. 4:1 then is symbolic of the church being removed to avoid the tribulation. Even though 4:2 clearly states.
Re 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
John clearly uses I in the singular form claiming that the invitation was given to him alone to receive the rest of the prophecies. There is no collective we or any such thing.
Here is a another revelation verse that is used.
Re 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
If this true then the number of people taken up in the rapture world wide is less than the population of a small city say like Topeka Kansas.
Also many people get dizzy reading revelation because so much of it is prophetic symbology and it seems to jump forward in time and then back again. It is my personal view that John may have been seeing things happening in the same manner as God sees them. Past present and future all at the same time. No biblical support for that. Just my personal thought.
Now the famous Thessalonians verses,
1th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Again there is a problem here. One, it is not a quite approach. It is an announcement heralded by an Arch Angel. Two, The dead in Christ rise first. If the dead believers are already in heaven then why do they need to meet Jesus in the air? Why are they rising rather than descending? One of the explanations I heard for this while in the church was that they were receiving their glorified spiritual bodies. But there is scriptural problem with that to because the very same Paul who wrote the above verses also wrote,
1co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
And the dead shall be raised incorruptible? If the dead are in heaven and have not yet received their incorruptible bodies then they are still corrupt. How can something that is corrupt enter Heaven? What Paul is speaking of here is not a pretrib rapture but the resurrection itself at the end of the tribulation period
.Re 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image *, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Re 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
Re 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
The first resurrection of the dead does not happen until
after {/I] the tribulation and the beginning of the millennial kingdom. Thus why I do not believe in the Pre or Mid Tribulation Raptures.
Moe