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Question on Jesus' Ascension Into Heaven

donhughesmusic

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The Bible states that Jesus ascended into Heaven. That is part of the foundation that the Catholic Church, and other denominations are built on.

Now, STRICTLY HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION!!!

A grave is found, and it is proven 100% (again, HYPOTHETICALLY) that the remains are identified as those of Jesus Christ. What does that do to the religions that teach and preach Jesus' ascension into Heaven? Would we see a worldwide crisis of faith?
 
The Bible states that Jesus ascended into Heaven. That is part of the foundation that the Catholic Church, and other denominations are built on.

Now, STRICTLY HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION!!!

A grave is found, and it is proven 100% (again, HYPOTHETICALLY) that the remains are identified as those of Jesus Christ. What does that do to the religions that teach and preach Jesus' ascension into Heaven? Would we see a worldwide crisis of faith?


Having been a Christian and studied the Bible that question would be dealt with in the same way Rome argues every issue....He's God!

And they would add that if the body was left behind it is no matter since we don't need bodies in the 'hear after' fiction they have created. What I do want to know is how does anyone know there even is a heaven let alone what things are like? No one's ever come back to tell us...just the people employed by your contributions and who wear white colors and dress like women
 
Considering that most nonbelievers say that Jesus (even a non diety version) never existed, it would be the biggest boon the the Christan faith
 
Considering that most nonbelievers say that Jesus (even a non diety version) never existed, it would be the biggest boon the the Christan faith

nonbelievers do not believe that the Jesus described by the bible existed, but I seem to recall 'most' saying that there very well may have been a man by the name who generally became a local leader and preached being good to one's fellow man. It's just that he wasn't God, God's Son, and a magical ghost, and that the probability he did exactly what the bible said he did approaches zero in the mathematical sense.



But a nice Jewish man who was crucified by the Romans because they correctly smelled a rising threat of an alternate power structure? Sure... they tended to frown on those things.

His name was Jesus? Ok...within the reasonable range of possibilities. I wouldn't say there couldn't have been such a man.
 
nonbelievers do not believe that the Jesus described by the bible existed, but I seem to recall 'most' saying that there very well may have been a man by the name who generally became a local leader and preached being good to one's fellow man. It's just that he wasn't God, God's Son, and a magical ghost, and that the probability he did exactly what the bible said he did approaches zero in the mathematical sense.



But a nice Jewish man who was crucified by the Romans because they correctly smelled a rising threat of an alternate power structure? Sure... they tended to frown on those things.

His name was Jesus? Ok...within the reasonable range of possibilities. I wouldn't say there couldn't have been such a man.

 
The Bible states that Jesus ascended into Heaven. That is part of the foundation that the Catholic Church, and other denominations are built on.

Now, STRICTLY HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION!!!

A grave is found, and it is proven 100% (again, HYPOTHETICALLY) that the remains are identified as those of Jesus Christ. What does that do to the religions that teach and preach Jesus' ascension into Heaven? Would we see a worldwide crisis of faith?
Jesus was not raised from the dead with his physical body, which he sacrificed for mankind...after Jesus’ resurrection he appeared in different bodies but not his original body...we know this because there were several times he manifested himself and was recognized, not by his appearance, but by his words and actions...Jesus was resurrected as a spirit, with the ability to materialize a body for the occasion as the angels did in past times, when they appeared as messengers....

"For Christ died once for all time for sins,+ a righteous person for unrighteous ones,+ in order to lead you to God.+ He was put to death in the flesh+ but made alive in the spirit." 1 Peter 3:18
 
nonbelievers do not believe that the Jesus described by the bible existed, but I seem to recall 'most' saying that there very well may have been a man by the name who generally became a local leader and preached being good to one's fellow man. It's just that he wasn't God, God's Son, and a magical ghost, and that the probability he did exactly what the bible said he did approaches zero in the mathematical sense.



But a nice Jewish man who was crucified by the Romans because they correctly smelled a rising threat of an alternate power structure? Sure... they tended to frown on those things.

His name was Jesus? Ok...within the reasonable range of possibilities. I wouldn't say there couldn't have been such a man.


I have spent the last 40 years examining the story of Jesus. I have gone from being a non-believer to a believer through getting sober. I have attended and been a member of different 'degrees' of Christianity (more on that in a sec) and I have been blessed with several college level courses on 'the bible'

The Bible is not a book, it is a collection of works from tales of wonder (fiction), art (song, poetry, story telling) and been used to murder or malign millions of people.

So, I will start here. The 'old testament' as Christians call it is a part of a set of Jewish lore and history. Israelite history, not world history...and it is filled with millions, literally millions of questionable concepts, ideas etc.

There never was a man eating fish, it was entertainment and a religious lesson taught to children around the camp fires of a nomadic tribe. Noah never was, not unless his sons were black, Asian, Inuit etc.

The "new" testament" wasn't even begun until over 70 years after the events described in the first five books. No, memories are "miraculous" else the Pope would remember the words to "our father"

!Archeologists have been digging up Egypt and the middle east since the time of the crusades. They have never found evidence (graves, sewage) that Israelis EVER lived in Egypt in great numbers, no evidence of millions of people wandering in the desert.

Lastly, two of the courses I took made a mockery of biblical quotes hurled as shields of spittle and fear...they teach the social customs behind what Jesus is doing & saying. As an example, the story of the woman at the well becomes much more rich and informing when you know Jesus was risking being stoned by even talking to her.....

...and all the male scholars of the bible shake & tremble when they learn the first "apostle" was that very woman at the well...a prostitute whom he told "now, go and tell them I have come."



Context is everything.
 
I have spent the last 40 years examining the story of Jesus. I have gone from being a non-believer to a believer through getting sober. I have attended and been a member of different 'degrees' of Christianity (more on that in a sec) and I have been blessed with several college level courses on 'the bible'

The Bible is not a book, it is a collection of works from tales of wonder (fiction), art (song, poetry, story telling) and been used to murder or malign millions of people.

So, I will start here. The 'old testament' as Christians call it is a part of a set of Jewish lore and history. Israelite history, not world history...and it is filled with millions, literally millions of questionable concepts, ideas etc.

There never was a man eating fish, it was entertainment and a religious lesson taught to children around the camp fires of a nomadic tribe. Noah never was, not unless his sons were black, Asian, Inuit etc.

The "new" testament" wasn't even begun until over 70 years after the events described in the first five books. No, memories are "miraculous" else the Pope would remember the words to "our father"

!Archeologists have been digging up Egypt and the middle east since the time of the crusades. They have never found evidence (graves, sewage) that Israelis EVER lived in Egypt in great numbers, no evidence of millions of people wandering in the desert.

Lastly, two of the courses I took made a mockery of biblical quotes hurled as shields of spittle and fear...they teach the social customs behind what Jesus is doing & saying. As an example, the story of the woman at the well becomes much more rich and informing when you know Jesus was risking being stoned by even talking to her.....

...and all the male scholars of the bible shake & tremble when they learn the first "apostle" was that very woman at the well...a prostitute whom he told "now, go and tell them I have come."



Context is everything.
Jesus told The woman at the well she has had 5 husbands. I don’t recall her being a prostitute. Now he did save a prostitute who washed his feet with her hair and oil.
 
Jesus was not raised from the dead with his physical body, which he sacrificed for mankind...after Jesus’ resurrection he appeared in different bodies but not his original body...we know this because there were several times he manifested himself and was recognized, not by his appearance, but by his words and actions...Jesus was resurrected as a spirit, with the ability to materialize a body for the occasion as the angels did in past times, when they appeared as messengers....

"For Christ died once for all time for sins,+ a righteous person for unrighteous ones,+ in order to lead you to God.+ He was put to death in the flesh+ but made alive in the spirit." 1 Peter 3:18
How does that reconcile with Mary Magdalene, who found the tomb empty except for 2 angels, as told in the Gospel Of John, and Peter's inspection of the tomb as told in the Gospel Of Luke? Did his body just disappear?
 
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How does that reconcile with the people who found the cave empty (i do not know the Bible verse offhand that says that).
Jehovah God saw to it that Jesus' physical body would disappear in some way...it was disposed of by Jehovah God...we know this because of what Acts 2:27 says...Jesus' body did not see corruption...

"because you will not leave me in the Grave, nor will you allow your loyal one to see corruption."
 
Jesus was not raised from the dead with his physical body, which he sacrificed for mankind...after Jesus’ resurrection he appeared in different bodies but not his original body...we know this because there were several times he manifested himself and was recognized, not by his appearance, but by his words and actions...Jesus was resurrected as a spirit, with the ability to materialize a body for the occasion as the angels did in past times, when they appeared as messengers....

"For Christ died once for all time for sins,+ a righteous person for unrighteous ones,+ in order to lead you to God.+ He was put to death in the flesh+ but made alive in the spirit." 1 Peter 3:18
I thought when the stone was rolled away from the face of the cave the body was gone? What a bunch of hoodoo voodoo. Recognized him not by his appearance but by his words and actions, bullcrap. The ability to materialize a body, even more bullcrap. Why does none of this stuff happen today?
 
The Bible states that Jesus ascended into Heaven. That is part of the foundation that the Catholic Church, and other denominations are built on.

Now, STRICTLY HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION!!!

A grave is found, and it is proven 100% (again, HYPOTHETICALLY) that the remains are identified as those of Jesus Christ. What does that do to the religions that teach and preach Jesus' ascension into Heaven? Would we see a worldwide crisis of faith?
It won't happen hypothetically, because Jesus Christ did Ascend.

The I am records a number of ascensions and thoroughly explains the process.

 
Jesus was not raised from the dead with his physical body, which he sacrificed for mankind...after Jesus’ resurrection he appeared in different bodies but not his original body...we know this because there were several times he manifested himself and was recognized, not by his appearance, but by his words and actions...Jesus was resurrected as a spirit, with the ability to materialize a body for the occasion as the angels did in past times, when they appeared as messengers....

"For Christ died once for all time for sins,+ a righteous person for unrighteous ones,+ in order to lead you to God.+ He was put to death in the flesh+ but made alive in the spirit." 1 Peter 3:18
What happened to his body in the tomb? It was missing, according to Mary.
Then please explain the account of Doubting Thomas.
 
What happened to his body in the tomb? It was missing, according to Mary.
Then please explain the account of Doubting Thomas.
You don't think Jehovah could cause Jesus' physical body to disappear? Jehovah did not raise Jesus to life in the fleshly body he died in...He gave Jesus a new spirit body, as the angels in heaven have...as I pointed out earlier, Peter told us this...

"He was put to death in the flesh+ but made alive in the spirit." 1 Peter 3:18

Further proof of that is Thomas...he did not recognize Jesus in the physical body he had materialized in for the benefit of the apostles to be able to see him...he wanted to see Jesus' wounds in his hands and his side, to verify it was indeed Jesus he was seeing...he was then convinced...
 
A grave is found, and it is proven 100% (again, HYPOTHETICALLY) that the remains are identified as those of Jesus Christ. What does that do to the religions that teach and preach Jesus' ascension into Heaven? Would we see a worldwide crisis of faith?

Can you please give the link to your source.
 
You don't think Jehovah could cause Jesus' physical body to disappear? Jehovah did not raise Jesus to life in the fleshly body he died in...He gave Jesus a new spirit body, as the angels in heaven have...as I pointed out earlier, Peter told us this...

"He was put to death in the flesh+ but made alive in the spirit." 1 Peter 3:18

"made alive in the spirit," is not the same as saying, "....made alive AS a spirit."

He was raised by the Holy Spirit.
It also refers to the.....................TRINITY.


Romans 8:11

If the
Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you,
he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.






Further proof of that is Thomas...he did not recognize Jesus in the physical body he had materialized in for the benefit of the apostles to be able to see him...he wanted to see Jesus' wounds in his hands and his side, to verify it was indeed Jesus he was seeing...he was then convinced...

:rolleyes:




I don't think wanting to see Jesus' wounds would mean that Thomas did not recognize Jesus Christ.
Why didn't Thomas exclaim: "What are you guys on about? That's not Him!" 😁


Thomas saw the RESEMBLANCE to Jesus Christ - that's why Thomas wants to make sure that it's really the genuine Jesus Christ by asking to see the proof - the wounds that Christ sustained!
 
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Can you please give the link to your source.
Source? IT'S A HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION! DO YOU EVEN KNOW HOW TO READ???!!!

The Bible states that Jesus ascended into Heaven. That is part of the foundation that the Catholic Church, and other denominations are built on.

Now, STRICTLY HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION!!!

A grave is found, and it is proven 100% (again, HYPOTHETICALLY) that the remains are identified as those of Jesus Christ. What does that do to the religions that teach and preach Jesus' ascension into Heaven? Would we see a worldwide crisis of faith?
See? HYPOTHETICAL!!!!! Where the actual hell did you get your education that you can't even read the word "hypothetical" TWICE in the post?
 
You don't think Jehovah could cause Jesus' physical body to disappear? Jehovah did not raise Jesus to life in the fleshly body he died in...He gave Jesus a new spirit body, as the angels in heaven have...as I pointed out earlier, Peter told us this...

"He was put to death in the flesh+ but made alive in the spirit." 1 Peter 3:18

Further proof of that is Thomas...he did not recognize Jesus in the physical body he had materialized in for the benefit of the apostles to be able to see him...he wanted to see Jesus' wounds in his hands and his side, to verify it was indeed Jesus he was seeing...he was then convinced...
There is no biblical evidence that Jehovah disposed of Jesus' body. That is pure speculation on your part. In fact, guards were posted specifically to prevent the body from being stolen and false claims of the resurrection being spread.

And Thomas did recognize Jesus after the resurrection. He expressed his doubts when others told him (he was not with them) about seeing the resurrected Christ. A week or so later he was present when Christ appeared and Thomas got his wish to see the wounds in his hands, feet, and side.
 
There is no biblical evidence that Jehovah disposed of Jesus' body. That is pure speculation on your part. In fact, guards were posted specifically to prevent the body from being stolen and false claims of the resurrection being spread.

And Thomas did recognize Jesus after the resurrection. He expressed his doubts when others told him (he was not with them) about seeing the resurrected Christ. A week or so later he was present when Christ appeared and Thomas got his wish to see the wounds in his hands, feet, and side.
I disagree...what other explanation is there, since Christ was resurrected as a spirit? If he had taken back his human body he sacrificed for mankind, that would make everything he did null and void...his human sacrifice would've been cancelled...Jesus’ own words showed that he would not be resurrected with his flesh-and-blood body...he said that he would give his “flesh in behalf of the life of the world,” as a ransom for mankind...this could not have happened, though, for the Bible says that he sacrificed his flesh and blood “once for all time"...Hebrews 9:12...

I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and for a fact, the bread that I will give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.” John 6:51
 
I disagree...what other explanation is there, since Christ was resurrected as a spirit? If he had taken back his human body he sacrificed for mankind, that would make everything he did null and void...his human sacrifice would've been cancelled...Jesus’ own words showed that he would not be resurrected with his flesh-and-blood body...he said that he would give his “flesh in behalf of the life of the world,” as a ransom for mankind...this could not have happened, though, for the Bible says that he sacrificed his flesh and blood “once for all time"...Hebrews 9:12...

I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and for a fact, the bread that I will give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.” John 6:51
The point of resurrecting the body would be to demonstrate that he had indeed overcome death itself. And isn't that the whole point anyway? If the resurrection was not literal, then there is no point, as Paul argues in 1 Corinthians 15.

As far as I'm concerned, this is all just minutiae anyway. Whether it is physical or spiritual has no bearing on my salvation.
 
The point of resurrecting the body would be to demonstrate that he had indeed overcome death itself. And isn't that the whole point anyway? If the resurrection was not literal, then there is no point, as Paul argues in 1 Corinthians 15.

As far as I'm concerned, this is all just minutiae anyway. Whether it is physical or spiritual has no bearing on my salvation.
Agreed...the fact is, Jehovah accepted Jesus' sacrifice on behalf of us all...that's the main thing...
 
........he wanted to see Jesus' wounds in his hands and his side, to verify it was indeed Jesus he was seeing...he was then convinced...


EXACTLY!

Obviously, Thomas was told by the aposrles it was Jesus Christ who appeared to them.

But Thomas DOUBTED IT WAS THE REAL Christ.
Meaning - it could've been someone IMPERSONATING Jesus Christ.
A LOOK-ALIKE!


Thus.............not only had Thomas wanted to see, but he also demanded that he TOUCH the wounds for him to believe.
Thomas, by the looks of it, isn't the type to be easily fooled by scammers! :)



Elora, how can it not be a PHYSICAL look-alike of Christ?
If it was a spirit - they'd have mentioned, or alluded to a ghost! NO ONE DID!
Therefore - who appeared to them appeared PHYSICALLY.
Christ, in physical form.
If Christ appeared as someone different from His physical form - they would all be doubting!

Even when Christ showed His wounds to them - if He hadn't looked like Christ, they'd have to have doubts!
It would surely be written that they'd all demanded more proof from this fellow who claims to be Jesus Christ!
 
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You don't think Jehovah could cause Jesus' physical body to disappear? Jehovah did not raise Jesus to life in the fleshly body he died in...He gave Jesus a new spirit body, as the angels in heaven have...as I pointed out earlier, Peter told us this...

"He was put to death in the flesh+ but made alive in the spirit." 1 Peter 3:18

Further proof of that is Thomas...he did not recognize Jesus in the physical body he had materialized in for the benefit of the apostles to be able to see him...he wanted to see Jesus' wounds in his hands and his side, to verify it was indeed Jesus he was seeing...he was then convinced...


John 20 (ESV)

Jesus Appears to the Disciples

19 On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”


John 20 (KJV)
19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews,
came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.



John 20 (NWT)


19 When it was late that day, the first day of the week, and the doors were locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them: “May you have peace.”+




Jesus CAME. It didn't say, Jesus "appeared."


The LOCKED DOORS were mentioned - signifying that the locked doors didn't prevent Jesus from entering!
Just opened the doors like as if they weren't locked at all.
 
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Source? IT'S A HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION! DO YOU EVEN KNOW HOW TO READ???!!!


See? HYPOTHETICAL!!!!! Where the actual hell did you get your education that you can't even read the word "hypothetical" TWICE in the post?


Sorry.
 
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