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Question for right wingers that would like to see a big ass wall with gun towers built across the entire southern border.

Criminal invaders are taking away the jobs that blacks and other minorities need.
 
dex4974 said:
Imagine something even grander than what Trump wanted to do. A seriously ****ing bad ass defensive structure. You know the left isn't about that shit, but as a left winger I have to say for me personally this is by far one of the issues I care least about. I'd definitely be open to negotiation. That shit would be kind of expensive right? The left wants money too. How much is that wall worth to you? We've seen what happens when you can't find compromise. Nothing. Nothing happens. Or very little happens very slowly. Why not trade? Let the left get something it wants that's proportional to what you want. It doesn't have to be one of your do or die issues that you're conceding on. There are a lot of angles you could come from. Can you think of something fair that you would be open to?

Disclaimer: if you're left wing I don't really care about your opinion in this thread.
Click to expand...

I think the premise is wrong. The wall is only wanted because of our broken immigration system. What Republicans really wanted was to go all the way back to Reagan's amnesty and follow that with the promised -- but never delivered -- border security. The "deal" was give amnesty then secure the border. We got one but not the other and followed it with 40 years gaming the system, patchwork policies, and even encouragement from elected officials to flaunt immigration laws.

If what had been promised after Reagan's amnesty had been delivered, I don't think we would be talking about a wall. Personally, rather than say I want a wall, I feel we as a country have painted ourselves into a corner for refusing to seriously address border security in the decades since the Regan administration.
 
dorsai said:
I think the premise is wrong. The wall is only wanted because of our broken immigration system. What Republicans really wanted was to go all the way back to Reagan's amnesty and follow that with the promised -- but never delivered -- border security. The "deal" was give amnesty then secure the border. We got one but not the other and followed it with 40 years gaming the system, patchwork policies, and even encouragement from elected officials to flaunt immigration laws.

If what had been promised after Reagan's amnesty had been delivered, I don't think we would be talking about a wall. Personally, rather than say I want a wall, I feel we as a country have painted ourselves into a corner for refusing to seriously address border security in the decades since the Regan administration.
Click to expand...

Are you saying you're unwilling to compromise in a new way because of a deal from the Reagan era?
 
dex4974 said:
Are you saying you're unwilling to compromise in a new way because of a deal from the Reagan era?
Click to expand...

Personally, I have now become uncompromising and want border security first. It needs to be the opening of compromise and not the product. The dog bites you once, it is the dog's fault. The dog bites you twice...
 
dorsai said:
Personally, I have now become uncompromising and want border security first. It needs to be the opening of compromise and not the product. The dog bites you once, it is the dog's fault. The dog bites you twice...
Click to expand...

They probably feel something similar. Without burying the hatchet a little I think nothing gets done.
 
So the righties want to stop illegal immigrants right

Simple question. Why haven't Republicans stopped it?

One recent example. During the coronavirus shutdown when grocery shelves were barren from the holders much concern was raised about our meat supplies. Workers were getting the virus in the plants. Several were shut down. Trump does an executive order that the plants had to stay open.

Now did anyone notice all those workers were hispanic? Did ICE run out there and arrest them? Have they since?

Do they ever really go after the employer of the illegal workers?

Why won't they make everify mandatory and establish a substantial fine for hiring.

The answer. Illegal immigration is all just campaign rhetoric. No one has any intention of cutting off that supply of cheap labor.

But you keep voting for Republicans even though they never actually do what they talk about during the election cycle. What do they actually do? Tax cuts for the rich and borrow the money to pay for it. Deregulation to increase corporate profits to the detriment of our children and our children's children
 
rickc said:
So the righties want to stop illegal immigrants right

Simple question. Why haven't Republicans stopped it?

One recent example. During the coronavirus shutdown when grocery shelves were barren from the holders much concern was raised about our meat supplies. Workers were getting the virus in the plants. Several were shut down. Trump does an executive order that the plants had to stay open.

Now did anyone notice all those workers were hispanic? Did ICE run out there and arrest them? Have they since?

Do they ever really go after the employer of the illegal workers?

Why won't they make everify mandatory and establish a substantial fine for hiring.

The answer. Illegal immigration is all just campaign rhetoric. No one has any intention of cutting off that supply of cheap labor.

But you keep voting for Republicans even though they never actually do what they talk about during the election cycle. What do they actually do? Tax cuts for the rich and borrow the money to pay for it. Deregulation to increase corporate profits to the detriment of our children and our children's children
Click to expand...

All that really matters is that they want a wall.
 
With gun towers spaced 1000 yards apart and a few well-placed shots, we don't need a wall.
 
dex4974 said:
Well so far there have been two proposals that I think are fair.



That was suggested by a right winger. What is your opinion on this?



This was my suggestion. I'd also be interested in things like a dollar for dollar investment in solar R&D. I think the development of that technology looks promising.
Click to expand...


sure I'm good with that. I'd like to expand Nasa myself.

but the wall in itself is not the only thing.. we have to have security in place to monitor and stop illegal immigration, so we aren't talking about build a wall and then abandon it.
 
Mycroft said:
1. Illegal immigrants cost the country more than the wall costs.




2. It takes two (or more) to compromise. Trump tried to compromise...and Nancy flat out said "NO!".

But it's okay. Trump is building the wall anyway.
Click to expand...
Or there's the reality:
www.pbs.org

4 myths about how immigrants affect the U.S. economy

President Donald Trump’s characterization of immigrants, as people who are a drain public resources, is not backed by the data.
www.pbs.org www.pbs.org
PS citing Fox as an impartial source won't win you any credibility points. Oh, and by the way, all but nine miles of 'new' wall was replacement of existing barriers. Trump's vanity project has only 1,900 miles to go-and you're paying for it, not Mexico. Trump, Aug 28; "[the wall] is almost complete".
www.bloomberg.com

The Border Wall That the U.S., Not Mexico, Is Paying For

Even if it’s not as vast as he once envisaged, or made of concrete as he used to describe it, or financed by Mexico as he famously promised his supporters, Trump can and does cite progress on his signature project.
www.bloomberg.com www.bloomberg.com
 
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snakestretcher said:
Or there's the reality:
www.pbs.org

4 myths about how immigrants affect the U.S. economy

President Donald Trump’s characterization of immigrants, as people who are a drain public resources, is not backed by the data.
www.pbs.org www.pbs.org
Click to expand...

The "reality" is that illegal immigration is...illegal.

PS citing Fox as an impartial source won't win you any credibility points. Oh, and by the way, all but nine miles of 'new' wall was replacement of existing barriers. Trump's vanity project has only 1,900 miles to go-and you're paying for it, not Mexico. Trump, Aug 28; "[the wall] is almost complete".
www.bloomberg.com

The Border Wall That the U.S., Not Mexico, Is Paying For

Even if it’s not as vast as he once envisaged, or made of concrete as he used to describe it, or financed by Mexico as he famously promised his supporters, Trump can and does cite progress on his signature project.
www.bloomberg.com www.bloomberg.com
Click to expand...

PS neither will you citing PBS about something that I haven't said a word about.

Oh, and by the way, that "barriers" that is being replaced by new wall isn't even a wall. So yeah, that hundreds of miles of new wall actually IS new wall.
 
Mycroft said:
The "reality" is that illegal immigration is...illegal.



Neither will you citing PBS about something that I haven't said a word about.

Oh, and by the way, that "barriers" that is being replaced by new wall isn't even a wall. So yeah, that hundreds of miles of new wall actually IS new wall.
Click to expand...
Only 1900 miles to go...should be done by Christmas-or should that be, "in about two weeks"? :ROFLMAO:
 
snakestretcher said:
Only 1900 miles to go...should be done by Christmas-or should that be, "in about two weeks"? :ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
Who says?

And who says there's 1900 miles to go?

I think you know less about the US than you know about Trump.
 
Mycroft said:
Who says?

And who says there's 1900 miles to go?

I think you know less about the US than you know about Trump.
Click to expand...
The border with Mexico is a shade under 2000 miles long. I know that much. So, subtract your number of new miles of fence from 2000. What's the answer?
 
snakestretcher said:
The border with Mexico is a shade under 2000 miles long. I know that much. So, subtract your number of new miles of fence from 2000. What's the answer?
Click to expand...
You should look at that border...in detail. You can be sure that the contractors building the wall have looked at it.

I didn't give you a number of new miles of "fence"...no, not a fence...an actual wall...30 feet high. Hell, I didn't even give you a number of new miles of wall, except to say " hundreds of miles of new wall ".
 
Mycroft said:
You should look at that border...in detail. You can be sure that the contractors building the wall have looked at it.

I didn't give you a number of new miles of "fence"...no, not a fence...an actual wall...30 feet high. Hell, I didn't even give you a number of new miles of wall, except to say " hundreds of miles of new wall ".
Click to expand...
www.expressnews.com

Border wall: Hundreds of miles funded, 5 new miles built

The Trump administration has set aside $15 billion for more than 700 miles of new border...
www.expressnews.com www.expressnews.com
 
dex4974 said:
Imagine something even grander than what Trump wanted to do. A seriously ****ing bad ass defensive structure. You know the left isn't about that shit, but as a left winger I have to say for me personally this is by far one of the issues I care least about. I'd definitely be open to negotiation. That shit would be kind of expensive right? The left wants money too. How much is that wall worth to you? We've seen what happens when you can't find compromise. Nothing. Nothing happens. Or very little happens very slowly. Why not trade? Let the left get something it wants that's proportional to what you want. It doesn't have to be one of your do or die issues that you're conceding on. There are a lot of angles you could come from. Can you think of something fair that you would be open to?

Disclaimer: if you're left wing I don't really care about your opinion in this thread.
Click to expand...
You appear to be falsely assuming that nothing is getting done. Roughly 400 miles of the planned roughly 700 mile wall has been built and enforcement of our immigration laws has improved about 90%. Illegal immigrants are now having to remain in Mexico while their asylum claims are being considered, rather then the catch and release with a years later court date policy that existed before.
 

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We keep talking about spending Billions on a border Wall while there is a simpler and way cheaper way to control illegal immigration, E-Verify, yet no Republican or Democrat ever wants to talk about it, it is as if both sides like having the issue continue as it has.
 
Casper said:
We keep talking about spending Billions on a border Wall while there is a simpler and way cheaper way to control illegal immigration, E-Verify, yet no Republican or Democrat ever wants to talk about it, it is as if both sides like having the issue continue as it has.
Click to expand...
Trump can't get the Congressional Elites to work with him on stuff that only they can do. Hell, it was like pulling teeth for him to get money for new border patrol agents and immigration judges from Nancy.

shrug...

Trump is left with doing what he can. After all, he is responsible for securing the border. With or without the help of Congress.
 
Casper said:
We keep talking about spending Billions on a border Wall while there is a simpler and way cheaper way to control illegal immigration, E-Verify, yet no Republican or Democrat ever wants to talk about it, it is as if both sides like having the issue continue as it has.
Click to expand...
Actually E-Verify has been around since the Bush Administration. The problem is that up until now, there was no teeth behind it. Too many employers were still willing to risk prosecution and take advantage of cheap illegal migrant labor.
 
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