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when do you see me ranting and raving about homosexuals? as for gluttons, i can rant about them all i want; i'm one of them :lol:
admittedly and openly. i actually just finished an ice-cream cone; but i ran 5 miles yesterday and i'll probably do another 3 today (sigh; stupid stupid need for exercise)
Your history knowledge is sketchy. God's "Law" has been enforced differently, from one place to another, from one generation to another, and from one era to another, depending on the cultural priorities of the people enforcing it. Spare me how it's unchanging. It isn't unchanging. You emphasize one particular sin, repeatedly, over all others. In another era, a different sin--maybe making too many pictures of saints, for instance or painting pictures of pagan gods--would have resulted in public executions. It's difficult to take these claims seriously because they are too easily proven to be false.
So, when Galileo was prosecuted for the heresy of daring to suggest that the earth wasn't flat, and that the stars didn't rotate around the earth, was that science? Or just and moral law? See, just and moral are both subjective, not objective terms. They vary from time to time, place to place, and pretending otherwise is intellectually dishonest.
With the loss of many of his defenders in Rome because of Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, Galileo was ordered to stand trial on suspicion of heresy in 1633. The sentence of the Inquisition was in three essential parts:
I know that you are parrotting a set of beliefs. You keep repeating them, as if repetition will make them more true or logical. What you apparently don't realize is that these beliefs are based on circular logic and thus, are inherently fallacious from a logical perspective.
This is how it works...
Blackdog: "These rules are moral and just."
Catz: How do we know this?
Blackdog: Because God told us.
Catz: How do we know that God told us?
Blackdog: Because the Bible says so.
Catz: How do we know the bible is accurate?
Blackdog: Because the Bible says so.
The Bible cannot be used to prove it's own validity. So, your point is a logical fail. It's not even that it requires faith, but that logically, you cannot use the Bible to prove the truthfulness of the Bible. In what court of law, or any other system, would we take that sort of "proof" as rational and reasonable? NONE....except the realm of religion.
Now, you can keep saying this stuff repeatedly, but that doesn't make it logically true or factually true. And, it would be good for you to recognize that. There is no such thing as objective truth in the subjective realm of morality. ALL MORALITY IS INHERENTLY SUBJECTIVE.
So, the only way to weigh it is to compare the effects. Is it more effective to condemn gays as sinners and throw stones at them? Or, to approach them in love, and tell them about hope?
Which would you be more likely to respond to?
Is it condoning immorality to leave the fatties at church alone and not constantly harp at them about their gluttony? How many times, exactly, do you feel the need to throw someone's divorce in his/her face? There is the ideal, and then there is the practical reality that every single human being falls short of perfection every single day, and none of us is really in the position to judge other people. And, that judging isn't NECESSARY or EXPEDIENT for us or them. Our job is to be like Christ. Our job is to take up OUR OWN CROSS and follow him.
Our job is not to tell other people that they aren't carrying their cross the right way.
Okay. Call bull****. My perspective remains as valid as yours. YOu can't prove that it isn't genetic, but but you believe it isn't. I can't prove that it is genetic, but I believe it is. What makes your beliefs more valid than mine?
I did answer your question, and let's put it like this: Even if there were a scientific report, you'd ignore it, because it conflicts with your "moral authority."
Why do I find this hard to believe? Do you tell fatties to go and lose weight because their gluttony is dishonoring God? Feel free to provide evidence of this. A video clip would be fine.
Moral and right are subjective terms. There are places in the world where eating your enemy's liver is considered moral and right. So, please stop using these terms as if they are factual. They aren't. Moral and right is what YOUR RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY says it is, today. It could change tomorrow. It will definitely change in 100 years. 150 years ago, it was morally right to own black people as property. The church said so. So did the Bible. It was morally wrong for a white person to marry a black person (miscegenation). The white person and the black person could be prosecuted and thrown in prison for loving each other.
Was slavery morally right? Or, does what is morally right change over time? Or was slavery ALWAYS morally wrong, and thus, the Bible's stance on it is also wrong?
You tell me.
Are they formerly gay, or currently gay?
But you do sin repeatedly, Blackdog. At least be honest about it. Is there a single day that goes by that you don't sin?
So, why are YOUR sins so forgiveable, but being gay is so UNforgivable? You're being inconsistent here, and I'm calling you on that fact.
If I thought you were worthless, I'd ignore you like I do most of the religious morons on here. (which, at this point, you might prefer--if that's the case, let me know)
I don't know. That's the honest answer. Do I still believe in God? Maybe. I try. Do I believe in religion? Not at all. I believe in Matthew 25. I lost my faith about 10 years ago, and was religiously abused by my ex-husband, who cheated on me repeatedly and used my faith to tear me down every single day.
Did I want to lose my faith? Oh my god, NO. It was the worst thing I've ever gone through in my life. I spent about six months crying and terrified. Do I hate God? Absolutely not. Do I hate religion? No, but I fear it. It was used to rip my heart out by the one person I loved the most in the world.
I don't know if there is a God, but what I do know is that--in this lifetime--the only way that I can truly KNOW HIM, face to face, is through the things he's made. Specifically, the people, who were made in his image. And, if I can't love other people, I certainly can't love God.
It's weird, though. I do care about this stuff. It makes me sad to see people of faith tearing down and injuring gays and lesbians out of fear. It makes me really sad. Frankly, I can't think of ANYTHING that is less Christlike.
However, having said all of this...your tactics here are ad hominem. Either my points are supported in scripture, or they aren't. Attempting to attack MY personal relationship with God in order to ignore the points I've made is pretty....UNchristian.
It isn't making a point to throw a stone at me and call me an unbeliever, dude. It's losing a logical argument.
This post is so full of out and out lies and total ignorance I am not even going to respond in kind.
God bless and I will see ya around.
now i want shrimp and grits. you, madam, are a bad person.
Personally, I believe that mankind is his own worst enemy, especially in regards to our spiritual nature. We’ve allowed ourselves to justify evil according to our own preconceived notions and worldview, in spite of what the Bible teaches. Death, pain, sorrow and separation from God entered into this world by a single act of disobedience.
How many people would try to justify Eve’s action of eating the forbidden fruit? After all, it was merely an object of fascination and appeared desirable, so how could it really be wrong? When we make a conscience decision in an attempt to undermine God’s wisdom, we are walking on dangerous ground, and with it come severe penalties.
A poster in here stated: “Paul revised it in the New Testament by borrowing teleological philosophy from Aristotle and Plato to argue that homosexual behavior goes against God's design and that any sexual act outside of marriage is sinful.
This is clearly misguided and totally incorrect. Paul made it explicitly clear in the first chapter of Galatians that the gospel never came from man, but solely from Jesus Christ Himself, and that no other doctrine was to ever be accepted, even if it came from “angels!”:
Homosexuality violates nature, it violates God’s design, it destroys the fruits of the nuclear family concept and if one is to really research the data (not what TV “experts” claim) into this behavior, I’m sure that most people would be absolutely appalled and repugnant by what they practice. Pedophilia happens to be directly related to homosexuality or are there any who are ignorant of the NAMBLA organizations true intent? See: Family Research Institute
Besides the Mosaic Law of the Old Testament condemning homosexuality, Paul took dead aim at this abominable sin in the 1st chapter of Romans:
Should you research Satanic rituals, you will discover that they accompany numerous devious acts of homosexuality. Adolf Hitler was an adept and long-time member of the Thule Society, where horrific acts of sadistic homosexual rituals were practiced. (See Trevor Ravenscroft’s Spear of Destiny)
Aleister Crowley, a Satanist and called “The Most Evil Man in the World” was a huge proponent of homosexuality.
There should be no remaining questions in the minds of Christians of how God views sodomy, and it is pure heresy to remotely suggest that either He or His Word somehow condones it.
There is no admittance into Heaven for Homosexuals, lest there be anyone here deceived. The Bible overwhelmingly teaches that sex is ONLY to be permitted between a Man and his Wife! It cannot be justified in any conceivable manner otherwise … to a Christian that is.
This is not correct, but clearly I've hit a hot button with you. Peace, bro.eace
Nope, no button. I am not mad, or mad at you in any way. It's that Your post is full of things that have nothing to do with the Bible such as the flat world and center, Bible does not say that. Things you attribute to me that are not in any way true. I have never attacked gays politically, verbally or any other way ever. So I decided it was not worth continuing is all.
Flat Earth
Isaiah 11:12 He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel; he will assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth.
Revelation 7:1 1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree.
Job 38:13 that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it?
Jeremiah 16:19 LORD, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in time of distress,
to you the nations will come from the ends of the earth and say, Our ancestors possessed nothing but false gods, worthless idols that did them no good.
Daniel 4:11 The tree grew large and strong and its top touched the sky; it was visible to the ends of the earth.
Fixed Earth
Psalm 104:5 He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.
Psalm 93:1 The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and armed with strength; indeed, the world is established, firm and secure. You have got to be kidding me?
Psalm 96:10 Say among the nations, "The LORD reigns." The world is firmly established, it cannot be moved; he will judge the peoples with equity. You know it is really getting stupid at this point.
Ecclesiastes 1:5 The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises.
No mention of the earth being flat and no mention of it being Gods law as most of those if not all are statements that are figurative. :doh
]You have pretty much lost any credibility at all at this point. None of these have anything at all to do with what I or even Cats said. :lol:
Just thought I would mention...
You do realize the Psalms are a collection of poetry, right?
Oh? How convienent that they can be taken as literal for centuries but when it becomes self evident the earth is round, they are suddenly "figurative".
Hey, I'm just using the same scripture that the Church used for centureis to support its position.
Has nothing to do with anything you suggest. Everyone thought the world was flat, including men of science. The Bible never said it was, the closest it comes is four corners. A figure of speech used before and since figuratively.
No. You posted a bunch of links from a web site that is wrong. :lol:
Poetry hehehehehehe.
And no. The Church at it's worse did not use the "Psalms" for church doctrine.
Actually, the Greeks determined the earth was round before Christianity even came into existance.
If you say so.
Christians also thought the earth was round, some also thought it was flat like others of the time. The Bible makes no claims other than to say "it was hung on nothing in nothing."
I don't have to, history and common sense back me up.
Oh and that it had 4 corners and edges. But that is just a figure of speech.
You know...I think all the verses condemning homosexual activity were also just figures of speech. Why not?
Well I'm not common so I don't get your sense.
I) Using the bible to prove your point is futile. The bible proves nothing. It's a belief system. Not anything factual.
I think it's fair to source a belief system's reference material because the OP is asking why homosexuality falls on the "wrong" side of any given belief system.
Actually the OP asks specifically why the Bible prohibits it.
Of course, nobody really wants to explain why it hurts God and/or your soul to engage in such acts, and if you ask people how they know that, their answer is...the Bible says so.
By contrast, it is easy to argue that murder and adultery are wrong because somebody typically gets hurt, but there really isn't any way to extend that reasoning to homosexuality.
Well there is one way...if you take the Bible in historical context, homosexuality was typically practiced as rape or a form of pagan worship, not within monogamous relationships. As such, the Biblical condemnations of homosexuality may not have anything to do with the modern form of homosexuality that is expressed today. Of course, that would be taking the Bible in its historical context which is not something a lot of Christians like to do. They like form absolute rules form it, "man with man was wrong then and it is wrong now" instead of "man with man meant rape and pagan worship then so it was wrong then but it means monogamous relationships now, so it is less clear if it wrong." I'll never understand why Christians will choose to engage in circular reasoning when they can't justify why something is wrong instead of simply asking themselves, "well what made it wrong then"?
So no one mentioned the medical consequences of sodomy, even? That is surprising. Usually the religious zealots come out of the wood work chanting 'homosex poo & ass farts'.
Being harmed isn't a very reliable rule as sometimes people need to be hurt; sometimes you need to hurt yourself to improve your situation over all. The 'harm principal' has been garbage since it's conception.
....ok......
Question for people who believe being gay to be wrong
Well, I ain't one of those people but I will opine, nevertheless.
How can being gay be wrong? I suppose it all boils down to which set of right and wrong rules one finds themselves adhering to.
Myself, I have to wonder HOW being gay could possibly be "wrong." Not being gay myself, I can only assume and try to understand. But since the beginning of mankind homosexuality has been inherent in all walks of human life. Maybe that trait might be considered taboo in certain societies, but it is only taboo because MAN made it taboo. They might claim their God made it taboo but do the math.
Check out the irony. Call it hypocracy if you prefer.
The irony is, the people who have the most problem with gays being gay usually come from a place where religious doctrine, or some other manmade social ideology, that dictates and mandates that a simple fact of nature, gays being gay, is considered "wrong." So the kicker is this, if they truly come from a religious place that condemns gays, don't they realize that it was their God who created gays to begin with? A part of His "perfect plan?" Right along with the stars, planets, oceans, birds and skies? If being gay is so wrong, rather than bashing the gays, maybe they oughta take it up with their God. He made 'em that way. Either believe or get off the pot.
Either God made gays and you're saying God's creation is defective or God is perfect and gays are as much a part His plan as anything else in His creation. Reality and the dictates of reason say you can't have it both ways.
Then you either see incest as not a sin or you are a hypocrite.
?
Then you either see incest as not a sin or you are a hypocrite.
?
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