alphamale
Banned
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- Oct 9, 2005
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"They will hunger no more, and thirst no more; the sun will not strike them, nor any scorching heat; for the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and He will guide them to springs of the water of life, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes" (Revelation 7:16-17).
For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face (1 Corinthians 13:12).
So that in the ages to come He might show the immeasurable riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 2:7).
If we endure, we shall also reign with Him (2 Timothy 2:12).
And let him who thirsts come, And whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely (Revelation 22:17).
Down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations (Revelation 22:2).
For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne shall spread His tabernacle over them (Revelation 7:15).
Although heaven will be a place of rest there is still service to God that will be performed.
“Geese, Christinaity should be called "Paulianity".”
“But if heaven cannot appeal to everyone's specific tastes, why call it heaven then?”
“If we have free will, like some wish to pretend, why would a loving God force unwilling people to spend eternity in lockdown in the sky fortress with him?”
doughgirl said:Why do you say that?
Because it is not about us, it is about our creator.
And the things I listed….what of those would not fit anyones taste? No pain and suffering....
Tell me how God forces anyone to do anything?
And we do all have free will to choose the actions that we wish to take.
I wouldn’t call heaven a lockdown…..and you tell me what the alternative to heaven is?
You want to spend time away from God for all eternity?
Then reject Christ and you will.
Want the list of things in scripture that happen to people who reject God? :rofl
“Because Paul is the beacon of the Christian faith.”
“Actually, I can name a few people who should be idolized by Christians.”
“For if not for Judas, Christ would not have been handed over to be crucified.”
“And I can't believe all of the Gospel's place his name at the end of the list of disciples.”
“Ok, say a Christian doesn't like the idea of singing, and wishes not to go to heaven (totally hypothetical), but then the Bible says all Christians go to heaven, so this fellow has no choice but to go. And that infringes on "free will."
“Uhh, if an omniscinet being knows our actions in the future, we do not.”
“ Jesus says you don't have to believe in him or the skydaddy to enter the castle.’
“Ha, seeing is how the bible is a fictional piece of bullshit, God has at his disposal an extensive list of atrocities at his command. And as typical, he won't hesistate on dishing them out.”
doughgirl said:Jesus Christ IS THE CHRISTIAN FAITH….not Paul.
Paul however did shape Christanity and even before he became a believer his actions were important.
He persecuted Christians left and right.
But Jesus Christ changed Paul. From the time he met Christ he spread the gospel especially among the Gentiles.
The whole good news about Paul is the fact that he turned his life around.
“The Good News” is about forgiveness and eternal life and that it is a free gift from God.
It's available to all people.
It's life changing…just look at Pauls life and how he was changed.
But Christians don’t worship Paul and if they do they are wrong biblically speaking. Christ is the only one to worship and no one else.
No mortal man or anything else should be idolized by Christians. That is against one of Gods Commandments….to worship and have no idols.
It is wrong to allow any created thing, including a human being, to become more important to us than our Creator. We learn this in the first Commandment.
Christ could have gotten himself out of His predicament.
He can do anything.
He knew He had to be sacrificed for mankind.
He had performed miracles before…….
and He could have that day as well.
He could have run when they came to get Him.
He could have lied when they asked Him if He was God.
He could have lied to those who questioned Him.
Judas did nothing really. He killed himself because He realized after what He had done……..that indeed Jesus was the Christ that he had betrayed God.
The order doesn’t matter. Christ hand picked them all every one. and He loved them all.
God knows what is in our hearts.
And if you open yourself up and let the Holy Spirit in He changes you. You want to worship HIM. If you accept Christ and you ask Him to forgive you, to come into your heart, to change you, to make you new…..then salvation is yours.
I would presume everyone in Heaven has a glorious voice and besides God wouldn’t care if you sang off key the whole time.
I would do anything to glorify Him and most Christians feel this way.
God knows the path we will eventually choose, but I do not believe that He intervenes in our decisions.
Then show me scripture where Jesus says this…. What book, what chapter, what verse does Jesus ever say deny me and you're in?
Matthew 19:16-17
Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?" "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only 1 who is good." "If you want to enter life, obey the commandments. "Which ones?" The man inquired. "Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself."
Well think what you wish, you have free will.
But you are here in this site asking questions……….that does say something maybe even you won’t admit.
God holds each of us accountable for what we know and what we've done with that knowledge.
God holds us accountable for our words, actions and thoughts. Psalm 139, says "O Lord, You have searched me and known me. You know when I sit down and when I rise up; You understand my thought from afar. You scrutinize my path and my lying down, and are intimately acquainted with all my ways".
If I were you I might wonder if mocking God is such a good idea?
“Yep, he was a pharissee and persecuted the very same people who worship him.”
“So why be so hard on athiests, as they would surely follow God if his bastard son appeared to them?”
Jesus said to Thomas, "Because you have seen me you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
“His disciples needed to see him post-resurrection to believe. Why are they any different? In fact, you Christians are being quite hypocritical condemning atheists for wanting proof, when Paul, and the 11 disciples needed proof.”
doughgirl said:Who do you think worships Paul?
1 Corinthians 11:1
Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.
Christians worship Jesus Christ…and no one else.
If they do worship something else they break the first and Greatest Commandment.
Well I would think anyone would if Jesus appeared before them and not just atheists.
There probably has never been a person that has ever lived that did not at one time or another doubt and ask questions.
But Jesus told Thomas that saving faith is rooted in belief in Christ. Specifically, that is belief that Jesus is the Son of God. There are no "better" or "worse" kinds of faith.
There is nothing wrong with questioning.
The very fact that we have questions can actually lead us to faith that Jesus is the Son of God (John 1:18) which can enable us to live faithfully in the face of lifes biggest questions. I do not know all the answers, nor do I care if I never get all the answers during my life on earth. One day I will. I have faith in the One who bears the Name Christ…. The ONE you so mocking call Gods bastard son.
Amazing fact…. that many of those who followed Christ died standing up for His Name.
I think all but one of the disciples were murdered.
Did they willingly die for a lie?
First of all who is condemning atheists? I have never condemned an atheist?
They have free wills to decide what to believe for themselves. If anyone condemns them they do it to themselves.
Christ will judge,
He is the ULTIMATE and FINAL judge not me. As Christians we can judge a persons actions….but we do not have the authority to judge HEARTS not even our own.
Everyone will have to be judged by God. (Acts 17:31)
“He has set a day when He will judge the world with justice.”
In Psalms 96:13 it says,
“He will judge the world in righteousness and the peoples in His truth.” The Truth is Christ and He made it plainly clear in scripture what His word was.
“Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:12
Jesus said...."He who rejects Me, and does not recieve My words, has that which judges him; the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day." John 12:48
And God says nobody will have an excuse to offer on judgment day.
(Romans 1:19-20)
You know I am trying to the best of my abilities to answer some of your questions. I am not a biblical scholar, nor do I need be to grasp the important parts of the gospel of Jesus Christ, or to explain it. No one on earth can give you the answers to all your questions.
But I sense by the tone of your questions that you are a bit hostile towards Christians and the faith in general. Why I do not know...and do not need to know. When I talk to people of different faiths I am not hostile to them, I do not make fun of their faith....even though I might find that faith to be a false one. I do not know what your problem is........but I will pray that God softens your heart and that the Holy Spirit guides you to places where maybe you can get answers to your questions.
God Bless
1 Thessalonians 5:21
Test everything. Hold on to the good.
“1 Corinthians 11:1
Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.”
“Of course, if atheists believe, you know it's real, cause they require proof.”
“So, even Jesus knows that some require evidence before committing to a belief.”
Heaven is God's kingdom, by what ever nature He wills it to be.alphamale said:What is Heaven? Is it a place where people will have human form? Will people recognize their friends and relatives? What will they do for eternity? Play basketball? Go out for a pizza? Sing hymns? Watch TV? Study French? What can you DO that lasts for eternity? Just float around as a gauzy haze, feeling contented?
doughgirl said:He follows the example of Christ. HE FOLLOWS.
Paul was not being arrogant when he said this.
Galations 5:12
As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
He knew he was sinful.
But at this time the Corinthian people did not know much about Jesus Christ. The Gospels had not been written yet…..so they had no idea what Christ was like. How could he tell them to imitate something they did not know much about? They trusted Paul and he had built a relationship of trust with these NEW believers. He was their Christian example……he was not their King, Lord……only an example. Christians today should be examples of how God wants us to live. I do not worship anyone else but I do admire other Christians and their walks with God.
That is why going to church is so important. God did not mean us to do life alone…….to battle alone. We need family, we need friends that are Christians to help us in our daily struggles and to keep us on that narrow path.
Well I’ll tell ya…….people live daily lives without requiring proof for everything they do. They rely on faith for most things.
Examples…
Say you are going to fly across the country by jet. Do you know with 100% certainty that you will get to your final destination?
You are going to have surgery. You select the doctor based on his expertise and experience. You pick a reliable hospital based on their record. Do you know for sure that you will make it through without dying? Chances are you will make it……..I said CHANCES,
You mention the atheist…..His position is indefensible.
It is philosophically impossible to be an atheist, since to be an atheist you must have infinite knowledge in order to know absolutely that there is no God.
Atheism is not a valid philosophy.
No finite human being can prove God does not exist because God may very well exist beyond ones comprehension or their experience.
Have you ever heard of Isaac Asimov? He signed the Humanist Manifesto ll. He honestly said…. "Emotionally I am an atheist. I don’t have the evidence to prove that God does not exist, but I so strongly suspect that he doesn’t that I don’t want to waste my time”
And we do have evidences today.
The Bible is an historical document of demonstrated accuracy and reliability.
It has valuable information on customs, languages, ethics and religion of what is the foundation of all Western civilization.
From manuscript discoveries like the Dead Sea Scrolls they have determined that the Old Testament for all practical purposes is exactly the same as it was originally inspired by God and recorded.
I wont go into it here because it’s a huge topic…but read about the Ebla tablets. They prove that written language existed at least 1000 years before Moses, which once again vindicated Moses as the most likely author of the Pentateuch.
Read about all the fulfilled prophecies.
Also look at the non-Christian writers that were living close to the time of Christ. They support the New Testament record. Flavius Josephus wrote about John the Baptist and mentioned Jesus by referring to James the half brother of Jesus, the “so-called Christ.” He referred to Jesus as a wise man who was condemned to die on the cross by Pilate. How about Tacitus. He talked about Jesus death and the existence of Christians in Rome. How about Pliny the Younger…Suetonius……The Talumud……The Mishnah…they all make references to Christ.
The Bible is clearly the most trustworthy historical document ever written.
You compare the Bible with other ancient manuscripts and none are more factual and accurate. If you toss the Bible out as unreliable then virtually all other books must be tossed out as being unreliable as well.
doughgirl said:And I have 100% faith in Christ.
Record? What is the record?.......
you still have to place your faith on the pilot....the doctor....and the people you come into contact with. You have no guarentees.
I am just curious as to why you hate Christianity so much? Why are you so very bitter? You don’t just ask questions, there is underlying hostility. You poke fun, you make jokes. You don’t question……..really you intentionally mock…………why?
It doesnt upset me but I am just curious as to why you waste your time in Christian sites when you don't believe in god?
I am not a Muslim but I do not make fun of Allah or their Koran, or their Hadiths nor do I make fun of Buddists or Jews...or athiests for that matter.
With every breath you mock Christ, why not Buddah? Allah?
What did Christ ever do to you that was so bad? Buddah left his wife and son and sought out on his own....Mohammed killed and was a warrior? What did Jesus ever do during His lifetime that warrents your hostility?
I think there is far more to your story……….
They say the hardest hearts in this world are not among the ungodly - but among God's people….
I think you are the exception to this rule. You seem to get much enjoyment out of flaunting your hatred for God. I know many atheists but I have never come across one so bitter as yourself. You love to scoff, mock, blaspheme,….you sort of remind me of that Marilyn Manson character. I think he does what he does for attention…..however I think he really is hurting inside.
You would know …. according to the Bible, the hardness of heart that God most despises has to do with the hearing and rejecting of His Word. So if you are trying to get His attention…….you are succeeding.
"He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy" (Proverbs 29:1)
God did want us to be yoked with other Christians. He never intended for us to be alone. Why do you think He created Eve? Adam was fine, everything was good. Adam was lonely.
Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
”What Christian site am I on? This one? That's news to me. I was under the assumption that Debate Politics was not-affiliated with a single philosophy.”
“You're a smart cookie detective. Was it the trail of bread crums that caught your suspicion?’
“Look, I'm just the kind of person who, when reads something they do not adhere to, retaliates, that's all. Why would I be hurting inside? O, you probably think I'm a bit lonely right? Maybe I'll find complaceny in conversing with an imaginary friend? No thanks, I don't want to live my life believing that a father figure is up in the clouds, watching me, waiting for me to slip, so he can punish me eternally. I don't think there's a supernatural puppeteer pulling the strings for humanity, we are not powerless pawns in a divine game, humanity's future is all up to humanity.”
“Why doesn't your all-powerful God strike me dead now?”
“And if heaven is so good, why don't we all just kill ourselves now to get a pass to go there?”
“And I know what you are gonna say, it's a mortal sin, but how did you come to that conclusion, as the Bible makes no mention of "mortal sin?" Surely, if your God is infinity loving, he would want his creation in a loving home, right?”
“Haha, that verse sounds like a poem you'd find in a fortune cookie. It doesn't fit in with the loving God concept.”
“Haha, this verse suggests that females are also in God's image. He can't seem to make up his mind. Maybe this "God" fellow is a transgender.”
doughgirl said:I missspoke…..
You are in the religious area of DebatePolitics………and you are discussing Christianity in this thread. Why?
Why do you waste your time?
Ha ha Not really but I can sense things. :mrgreen:
You don’t need to retaliate. Why do you think you have to retaliate? I am a Christian but I hold no ill will for you just because you are not a Christian. My husband is not a believer really. He believes in God but he doesn’t walk the walk. Its head knowledge and not heart knowledge. Do you understand the difference?
So I don’t hold any ill will for you…actually I enjoy talking to you. I mean you ask very good questions.
And who knows maybe today is your last day on earth….maybe today is mine.
If you have read the bible then you know there is only one way to heaven. There are no free passes and everyone goes the SAME ROUTE. There is only ONE GATE.
Everyone will not go to heaven the scriptures tell us. Jesus tells us that only those who believe in Him will have eternal life. Being good is not enough…….and there is only ONE SIN, that keeps you from spending eternity in heaven with God……denying His Son.
I think the Catholics believe if you kill yourself you don’t go to heaven.
Interesting observation. Hey I am not a Biblical scholar, but I do recognize that God does not always do what we would like Him to do or, in fact what we think He ought to do. (Psalms 115:3) God has the ability to see the whole picture and we do not. We basically see our immediate needs. He is sovereign and infinite and we are limited and finite. (Isa. 55:8-9) We will never understand why God chooses to act as He does in many situations or why He allows events to happen that seem inconsistent with His character.
Nevertheless although much of what God does seems like a mystery, we do have His assurance that what He does is ultimately in the best interest of those who believe in Him. (romans 8:28) We need to open our hearts and let Him in and learn to trust Him, even if we dont understand what He is doing. If we know God we know that what He is doing is rational and is not contrary to His attributes of love and holiness.
It is true that God permitted evil to enter the world and that He now allows the consequences of that evil to continue. God is sovereign and all-powerful and could destroy all evil immediately if He chose, but He does not. Sin is evil and sin separates you from God.
2005 brought much sadness and trauma in my life. I lost my beloved mother who suffered with Scleroderma a painful, horrendous illness, and in less than 3 weeks lost my aunt to colon cancer. My father has prostrate cancer and alzeimers, and now without mom is suffering deep depression. My son was in not one but two near fatal car accidents, one in fact where he was airlifted to the hospital. Lets put it this way, I don’t want to answer my door or answer the phone.
It’s a lie…….. Sometimes God gives you much more than you can handle………so that you will rely on Him. I know this probably sounds corny but it’s true.
When I encounter hardships, rather than blame God for the pain I suffer I give Him praise that He sent Christ and that He dwells in my heart.
And all I know is that God was not a monkey……..Gosh don’t get me started on that !!!!!!!
It’s late and I need sleep………..God bless
Will respond tomorrow.
“Yep, we never know when our time is up, my heart can stop beating as I type this sentence.”
“What about people in under-developed countries that never heard of Christianity, and are salt of the earth good people? Will a loving God condemn them to eternal fire? Remember in that verse from Matthew, the carpenter says you simply have to follow a few commandments to gain entrance to the sky fortress.”
“I'm sure when Jesus recruited Paul, he failed to mention how his dad was a bloodthirsty, egomaniacal, insecure, emotional, mafia headman.”
“Why would a loving God allow evil to corrupt those he loves so much? And this verse shows Satan is all powerful.”
“Wow, so when you encounter trouble, you praise God, who caused it? He's really pulling the wull over your eyes.”
kal-el said:Do you want me to just stare at my monitor and accept all the Christian answers to questions, without questioning them?
kal-el said:I refuse to bite my tongue, when I see something I do not agree with 8 times out of 10 I type my opinion in. I refuse to follow the rest of the herd, I prefer to question things, not take things at face value.
kal-el said:I understand, I know many people who believe in God, but are apprenticed on scripture. I have yet to meet anyone (outside of Debate politics) who claims they are Christian, know anything about the Bible, and that kinda worries me, that so many people believe in a loving, invisable, father-figure, without even questioning the schematics behind his so called existance.
kal-el said:What about people in under-developed countries that never heard of Christianity, and are salt of the earth good people? Will a loving God condemn them to eternal fire?
kal-el said:Remember in that verse from Matthew, the carpenter says you simply have to follow a few commandments to gain entrance to the sky fortress.
kal-el said:Why would a loving God allow evil to corrupt those he loves so much? And this verse shows Satan is all powerful.
Rev. said:Kal-el, there is questioning, and there is stopping your ears and shouting at the top of your lungs so you don't have to hear the answer. More than once I have replied to one of your questions and you blew it off as if I'd said nothing. If you are going to ask questions, at least have the courtesy to consider the answer.
I'm the same way!
You are so right about Christians not knowing their Bible. It is so dangerous because if they don't know what the Bible actually says, they are so easily led astray by lies.
By nature, we have an understanding of right and wrong (part of our inheritance from the fall). Murder is wrong, stealing is wrong etc. Our poor pagan friends who have never heard of God know right and wrong...and will be judged according to how they have followed the law that is written on their hearts. So from this verse, I think we can see the possibility exists that any pagan who perfectly followed his conscience and always did what his conscience said was right will go to heaven.
Here you go again, misrepresenting scripture.
There is a bigger picture here you are missing by your insistance on quoting the one verse out of context. If you notice, the commandments Jesus quoted were the last six. Why didn't he quote the first four...do those not apply? No, he was exposing this man's sin of worshipping the idol of money. The rich man did not put God first, and evidenced by his failure to sell his possessions and follow Jesus, he continued to not put God first...thus he sinned.
You cannot make a general application from this story that we only need to follow a few commandments to get to heaven, especially in light of all those other verses I quoted before that say we must believe in Jesus to be saved. Jesus said what he said to serve a particular purpose in a particular situation. And in the end, Jesus' requirement was that we follow him.
Nice trick...quote out of context AND switch versions so you can make the verse appear to say what you want.
Your reference (copied from the site you provided so that we can actually see what it says) "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders," 2 Thess 2:9 (KJV) It does NOT say Satn is all powerful, but that he is coming with all power...two entirely different things.
1 Thessalonians 2:18
For we wanted to come to you- certainly I, Paul, did, again and again, but Satan stopped us.
2 Timothy 2:25-26
Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentence leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.
"For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved." 2 Thess 2:7-10 (NIV) From the full context, we see that the "lawless one" will come with miraculous signs and wonders through the power of Satan, and that THEY WILL BE DESTROYED when Jesus comes in His splendor. Satan is not so all-powerful if he will be destroyed.
kal-el said:How do you know I didn't? Rev, if you are trying to convert me, I'm sorry, it won't work, unless you can provide some sort of observational evidence of a God. It's in my nature to question things. Look at that incident in the saco mines (I think it's called saco?). 11 miners died, while 1 lived. Everybody claimed it was a miracle and an act of God. Sorry, but if anything will serve as proof that there is no God, this is the closest to proof we will ever have short of an eyewitness encounter. If an omnipotent God can save 1 miner, he can save them all. Or can't? He's sadistic then. Sentencing 11 miners to their death, and only saving 1. I know it's great that 1 survived, but it isn't a miracle, far from it. MCcloy's wits and fortitude got him through this.
kal-el said:No offense, but how can you say that when you blindly buy into supernatural hocus pocus?
kal-el said:When I was a christian, I went to alot of sermons. My preacher always cherry-picked the verses that he wanted to relay to his congregation. Boy, if I could get to pick the verses that he would read, the congregation would riot.:lol:
kal-el said:I said this before, but if the Bible is infallible, it is impossible for a fallible human to misrepresent it, or take it out of context. And who's to say you're not misrepresenting it?
kal-el said:Again, Matthew 16-22 is not misquoted.
kal-el said:It says what it says. You keep placing personal opinions to his teachings, which need no opinions.
kal-el said:If Jesus wanted to say he should put God first, he would have said it.
kal-el said:The carpenter does not need his fan club fighting his battles. In Jesus' reply he failed to mention worship of him or his daddy. He was telling his disciples how having wealth will hinder your entrance into heaven, and he said with God all things are possible, but you are guilty of adding onto the Bible if you describe something other.
kal-el said:That's kinda gettin old. Those parrotted "out of context" articulations.
kal-el said:Well, it certainly sounds like he's all-powerful:
kal-el said:Well obviously, Satan has an abundance of power, since he turned on an omniscient God, and trys to cause havoc to his creation.
kal-el said:And, if Satan isn't so powerful, why then is this God fella so nervous, constantly referring to him?
kal-el said:Haha, I noticed you conviently missed verses number 11 and 12, it says, if you forgot- For this reason, God sends them a powerful delusion, so that they will believe a lie and so that they will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
nkgupta80 said:why couldn't God just make it easier for people to choose him, and just make billboards in the sky that remind us of that.
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