Question #5 for Christians

[Rick]

God created people. OBVIOUSLY. people are fallible, sin-wise. But why did God create fallible people? Surely He must have known that He was creating people who would sin. If He hates sin so much, why didn't He create infallible people? Then there never would have been any sin. The origin of sin appears to be that God created fallible people.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Prove that God hates sin.

 

[Keorythe]

This is going to vary from religion to religion.

The best way to explain this goes back to the old "What does salt taste like" parable. Its easier to twist the story a bit because most people try to get cocky with the "what ifs".

So basically you've got a guy who has no taste buds at all. Now try to explain what salt tastes like. Remember this is someone who hasn't tasted salt before. Words like "salty" or "sour" just don't do much for him. Its impossible to explain something to someone who has never experienced anything even similar.

Now explain sin to someone who can't grasp that concept because they've never known anything similar.

The explanation is basically explaining that God has to allow us to live in a world with sin to know what it is. His prophets and preachers are supposed to be the ones that show us wrong from right. But then we know how fallible those guys can be don't we? So there's the catch. :rofl

 

[Rick]

This is going to vary from religion to religion.

The best way to explain this goes back to the old "What does salt taste like" parable. Its easier to twist the story a bit because most people try to get cocky with the "what ifs".

So basically you've got a guy who has no taste buds at all. Now try to explain what salt tastes like. Remember this is someone who hasn't tasted salt before. Words like "salty" or "sour" just don't do much for him. Its impossible to explain something to someone who has never experienced anything even similar.

Now explain sin to someone who can't grasp that concept because they've never known anything similar.

The explanation is basically explaining that God has to allow us to live in a world with sin to know what it is. His prophets and preachers are supposed to be the ones that show us wrong from right. But then we know how fallible those guys can be don't we? So there's the catch. :rofl

Also, why does God want us even to know about sin, or live in a sinful world? What's the point?

 

[obvious Child]

God created people. OBVIOUSLY. people are fallible, sin-wise. But why did God create fallible people? Surely He must have known that He was creating people who would sin. If He hates sin so much, why didn't He create infallible people? Then there never would have been any sin. The origin of sin appears to be that God created fallible people.

How does a perfect being in all aspects create imperfection?

 

[Rick]

How does a perfect being in all aspects create imperfection?

Yes. How - and why?

 

[Keorythe]

Yes. How - and why?

You can't have perfection without a standard of inperfection. Without it you only have existance.

This is going to delve into some serious philisophical stuff. Unfortunately I didn't take any philosophy classes in college.

 

[DAR]

God created people. OBVIOUSLY. people are fallible, sin-wise.

I'm not sure if the "OBVIOUSLY" refers to the "God created people" statement or the "people are fallible, sin-wise" statement. Either way, neither statement is obvious to me. And as falls Wichita, so falls Wichita Falls.

But why did God create fallible people? Surely He must have known that He was creating people who would sin. If He hates sin so much, why didn't He create infallible people?

Planned obsolescence? Divine ego stroking? Sadistic tendencies? Or maybe, just maybe, the God-did-it "explanations" are just a bunch of divine BS.

Regards,
DAR

 

[OhioPlayer]

God created people. OBVIOUSLY. people are fallible, sin-wise. But why did God create fallible people? Surely He must have known that He was creating people who would sin. If He hates sin so much, why didn't He create infallible people? Then there never would have been any sin. The origin of sin appears to be that God created fallible people.

God created Adam and Eve in His "image and likeness" and gave them dominion over all the earth. God gave Adam & Eve were specific instructions not to eat fruit from the forbidden tree, they were deceived by Satan in the form of a snake. Adam & Eve disobeyed God and sinned against God. "As by one man's offense sin entered into all so also by by the obedience and by one man (Jesus) have all been righteous (right standing with God) made whole"

 

[DGomez]

God created people. OBVIOUSLY. people are fallible, sin-wise. But why did God create fallible people? Surely He must have known that He was creating people who would sin. If He hates sin so much, why didn't He create infallible people? Then there never would have been any sin. The origin of sin appears to be that God created fallible people.

God did not create fallible people. Adam and Eve were without sin. But he did create us with a free will which is not necessarily a bad thing in and of itself. Long story short, we sin by choice. Instead of creating little drones to do his will, God wants us to come to him by choice.

 

[Rick]

God did not create fallible people. Adam and Eve were without sin. But he did create us with a free will which is not necessarily a bad thing in and of itself. Long story short, we sin by choice. Instead of creating little drones to do his will, God wants us to come to him by choice.

From dictionary.com.

fal⋅li⋅ble   /ˈfæləbəl/

–adjective 1. (of persons) liable to err

Christians tell us everyone has sinned. CLEARLY human beings are fallible.

 

[DGomez]

From dictionary.com.

fal⋅li⋅ble   /ˈfæləbəl/

–adjective 1. (of persons) liable to err

Christians tell us everyone has sinned. CLEARLY human beings are fallible.

We sin by choice. According to the bible, God gave us free will. So the potential to sin is not the same thing as being a sinner. To go any further, you'd have to touch on human nature.

 

[Makedde]

Prove that God hates sin.

Doesn't God require a punishment for sin? Sin equals wrongdoing. Wrongdoing equals punishment. If God didn't hate sin, he wouldn't demand punishment, would he?

Just my opinion, mind. I notice no one commented on this yet.

 

[DGomez]

Doesn't God require a punishment for sin?

Not according to the bible.

 

[OhioPlayer]

Prove that God hates sin.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

I have more scripture references that God hates sin and will post if requested.

 

[American]

How does a perfect being in all aspects create imperfection?

How does he create imperfection? If he is omnipotent, then what would stop him?

 

[American]

Not according to the bible.

Oh, what does he require?

Hebrew 9:[22] And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
[23] It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
[24] For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

 

[obvious Child]

How does he create imperfection? If he is omnipotent, then what would stop him?

How would a perfect being in all aspects create imperfection?

Doesn't make sense. If God is perfect, meaning without flaws without imperfections, then its will is perfect. How can a perfect will create imperfection while retaining its own perfection? To create imperfection one must will imperfection. While the counter argument that creation could have become imperfect could be made, it doesn't make sense either as God would have known the future of such a creation. Thus, God must have intentionally created imperfection, rendering itself no longer perfect. That in itself isn't a problem.

If God was omnipotent, it wouldn't stop him. But Omnipotent creates a whole host of theological contradictions resulting in God being extremely illogical and nonsensical.

 

[Cilogy]

God did not create fallible people. Adam and Eve were without sin. But he did create us with a free will which is not necessarily a bad thing in and of itself. Long story short, we sin by choice. Instead of creating little drones to do his will, God wants us to come to him by choice.

If people then obtained free will, then God must have known that some people with free will would sin. Why didn't God prevent free will and just make everyone perfect?

 

[Graffight]

If people then obtained free will, then God must have known that some people with free will would sin. Why didn't God prevent free will and just make everyone perfect?

He actually did this when he created the angels...Let me ask you a question, if a person a magic want that had the ability to make everyone love you, they might do it, but after while they might get bored with forcing everyone to love them and they might want someone to choose to love them. I think God created free will so we would choose to love him, sure he coulda' just made everyone perfect and obedient to his will, but what would be the point of that? and as far as the question How can God create something imperfect...he does it on purpose.

 

[DGomez]

If people then obtained free will, then God must have known that some people with free will would sin. Why didn't God prevent free will and just make everyone perfect?

That depends on your definition of perfect. Did you ever see that movie Stepford Wives? It would be a very relevant example in regards to this topic thread.

As I said before, you don't want drones that are programed to "love you." I mean, is that really love? Like if your spouse had a pre programmed chip in them that forced them to love you, would that be the same thing as them coming to love you on their own terms? Certainly not. In fact, I wouldn't even call a pre programmed spouse "perfect." It would be totally boring for one thing.

 

[DGomez]

Oh, what does he require?

As far as I know of Christianity.... nothing. "Hell" is technically the absence of God. So if you reject God you go to or are in hell.

Catholics believe is purgatory which could, I suppose, count as a sort of payback time for sins.

 

[moe]

God created people. OBVIOUSLY. people are fallible, sin-wise. But why did God create fallible people? Surely He must have known that He was creating people who would sin. If He hates sin so much, why didn't He create infallible people? Then there never would have been any sin. The origin of sin appears to be that God created fallible people.

The Bible tells us that God was fully aware of what was going to take place when he created the earth and man.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

What many seem to misunderstand the creation process is not truly a finished work . The misunderstanding comes from this verse.

Ge 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Looking at Eph 1:4 we can see that the original creation was finished BUT it was not the FINAL creation. It was simply a step towards what will be Gods final perfected work of creation.

Re 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

The creation process is still on going today. In fact Christians always say " we are building/adding to the kingdom of God with out even pausing to think that we contributing to the creation process by doing this very thing.

Another thing Christians like to say is God has given us a part in the work for his kingdom again many not even stopping to think that we are actually a part of the on going creation plan of God. This stage that we are in now is the creation of a willing populace for the the final physical creation.

God is not looking to create a society of automatons. He wants people who truly want to be with him. What satisfaction is there in having someone who is with you because they are not capable of making any other decision? Love is the beauty and tragedy of true freewill, You may love someone with all your heart. But if they choose to reject you there is really nothing you can do but accept their choice

Moe

 

[Oftencold]

God created people. OBVIOUSLY. people are fallible, sin-wise. But why did God create fallible people? Surely He must have known that He was creating people who would sin. If He hates sin so much, why didn't He create infallible people? Then there never would have been any sin. The origin of sin appears to be that God created fallible people.

Creations without the potential to fail are animals at best, and automatons at worst.

This isn't a terribly difficult question to address.