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Putin again demands that Ukraine withdraw from Donbass for a possible ceasefire

iguanaman

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Not a peace agreement just a possible ceasefire. That is what Putin told Trump in his phone call. Trump calls that progress? That is what this new meeting is about? It is just more stalling and manipulating Trump to help Russia continue this war. Putin will never agree to any meeting where Zelensky is present either.

 
Trump is going to look like a played fool once again. He just keeps giving Putin time. I don't understand how Trump's ego puts up with this. Then again maybe his ego is so delusional he thinks he can bring Putin to heel.
 
Not a peace agreement just a possible ceasefire. That is what Putin told Trump in his phone call. Trump calls that progress? That is what this new meeting is about? It is just more stalling and manipulating Trump to help Russia continue this war. Putin will never agree to any meeting where Zelensky is present either.


So?

It’s pretty clear as it currently stands Ukraine doesn’t have any hope of taking the hole Donbas any time soon(much less Crimea).

What, exactly, is the point of continuing to bash one’s head against the wall?
 
So?

It’s pretty clear as it currently stands Ukraine doesn’t have any hope of taking the hole Donbas any time soon(much less Crimea).

What, exactly, is the point of continuing to bash one’s head against the wall?
The point is that Russia does not have any hope of taking Donbass either and Ukraine has built its main defense lines for all of Ukraine there. Giving up Donbas is surrendering all of Ukraine to Putin. It is Putin that is bashing his soldiers heads against the wall and losing 1000+ of them daily. Ukraine will never willingly give up an inch of Ukraine any more than Putin will.
 
The point is that Russia does not have any hope of taking Donbass either and Ukraine has built its main defense lines for all of Ukraine there. Giving up Donbas is surrendering all of Ukraine to Putin.
Russia already has taken much of Donbas.

Oh really? Sounds like all that talk about how much skilled the Ukrainians supposed are was just worthless hot air.

Or do you mean to tell me there’s only one place in the entirety of Ukraine suitable for a defensive line?
 
Russia already has taken much of Donbas.

Oh really? Sounds like all that talk about how much skilled the Ukrainians supposed are was just worthless hot air.

Or do you mean to tell me there’s only one place in the entirety of Ukraine suitable for a defensive line?
LOL At the rate Russia is advancing they can't take Donbass before 2030. Ukraine will never willingly give up an inch of Ukraine. They will bomb Russia into a wasteland before that happens.
 
LOL At the rate Russia is advancing they can't take Donbass before 2030. Ukraine will never willingly give up an inch of Ukraine. The will bomb Russia into a wasteland before that happens.
Which can’t contradict the fact that they still hold much of it, as I pointed out.

Ukraine has already given up much of its land via its inability to retake it, and blindly hurling more and more troops into the quagmire when they have such a smaller population base to begin with is not a particularly brilliant strategy.

Should the UN have fought on in 1953 instead of establishing a ceasefire?
 
So?

It’s pretty clear as it currently stands Ukraine doesn’t have any hope of taking the hole Donbas any time soon(much less Crimea).

What, exactly, is the point of continuing to bash one’s head against the wall?

You siding with Trump?
 
You siding with Trump?
I’m pointing out the fact continuing a war for the sake of continuing a war is pointless, especially given the fact that the war is a clear stalemate at this point.

Should Eisenhower have tried to keep the active fighting in Korea going instead of agreeing to a ceasefire?
 
I’m pointing out the fact continuing a war for the sake of continuing a war is pointless, especially given the fact that the war is a clear stalemate at this point.

Should Eisenhower have tried to keep the active fighting in Korea going instead of agreeing to a ceasefire?

Its a simple question.
 
I’m pointing out the fact continuing a war for the sake of continuing a war is pointless, especially given the fact that the war is a clear stalemate at this point.

Should Eisenhower have tried to keep the active fighting in Korea going instead of agreeing to a ceasefire?
Eisenhower did not give up land to the N. Koreans. Zelensky has agreed to a unconditional ceasefire and Putin has not. You keep forgetting that. There is no stalemate in this war of attrition either. Ukraine is clearly winning.
 
Eisenhower did not give up land to the N. Koreans. Zelensky has agreed to an unconditional ceasefire and Putin has not. You keep forgetting that. There is no stalemate in this war of attrition either. Ukraine is clearly winning.
Yes, he did. Kaesong was ceded to North Korea, as well as the vast majority of the land the UN had managed to conquer in late 1950.

South Korea’s dictator was furious and desperately tried to keep the war going.

If Ukraine is “clearly winning” they wouldn’t be asking for more and more heavy duty equipment like Tomahawks.
 
Yes, he did. Kaesong was ceded to North Korea, as well as the vast majority of the land the UN had managed to conquer in late 1950.

South Korea’s dictator was furious and desperately tried to keep the war going.

If Ukraine is “clearly winning” they wouldn’t be asking for more and more heavy duty equipment like Tomahawks.
Are you saying that damning millions of Koreans to starvation and a brutal dictatorship for generations was the right thing to do? That N. Korea is not a pariah state that is a thorn in the side of the world and that Ukraine should do the same to their own people?
Ukraine wants peace and more weaponry is the only thing that will shorten this war. On the other hand Putin wants and needs eternal war and will bankrupt his nation to prolong it. They didn't ask for or expect Tomahawks either. They are building their own cruise missiles. Trump brought it up to get Putin to call him and it worked.
 
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Ukraine wants peace and the more weaponry will shorten this war. On the other hand Putin wants and needs eternal war and will bankrupt his nation to prolong it.
If Ukraine is “already winning” then why do they need an endless supply of more and more advanced weaponry? I still remember how the F-16s were supposed to be the “game changers”. And the Abrams. And the rocket launchers 🙄
 
If Ukraine is “already winning” then why do they need an endless supply of more and more advanced weaponry? I still remember how the F-16s were supposed to be the “game changers”. And the Abrams. And the rocket launchers 🙄
I answered your question and you ignore it. They are winning but they want to end this war not prolong it like Putin. There are no "game changers" when your enemy will endure any amount of losses to prolong the conflict. The F-16's are shooting down 100's of drones and saving 1000's of Ukrainian lives though.
 
I answered your question and you ignore it. They are winning but they want to end this war not prolong it like Putin.
If they are winning they clearly don’t need Tomahawks, as what they have would have been doing the job just fine.
 
If they are winning they clearly don’t need Tomahawks, as what they have would have been doing the job just fine.
They need whatever they can get to make Putin quit his invasion tomorrow. The killing has to stop.
 
Trump is going to look like a played fool once again. He just keeps giving Putin time. I don't understand how Trump's ego puts up with this. Then again maybe his ego is so delusional he thinks he can bring Putin to heel.
Trump believes every word out of Putin's lying mouth and will never give up giving him second chances. He will likely try to get Ukraine to give up Donbass again since Putin now realizes that his military will never take it by force before Russia goes bankrupt.
 
They need whatever they can get to make Putin quit his invasion tomorrow. The killing has to stop.
Hmm. That’s odd, you were just complaining about conditions for a ceasefire a minute ago. Do you want the killing to stop or don’t you?
 
Hmm. That’s odd, you were just complaining about conditions for a ceasefire a minute ago. Do you want the killing to stop or don’t you?
No nation gives up territory before negotiations even start. It is a ludicrous and insulting demand and Putin knows it. He knows that Ukraine will never agree and that is what he wants. An excuse to keep fighting in Ukraine.
 
No nation gives up territory before negotiations even start. It is a ludicrous demand and Putin knows it.
Clearly false. East Germany, for example, gave up its land over the Oder even before the Treaty of Zgorzelec was officially signed.
 
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