Public Service

[wolfman24]

MODERATORS. I would like to ask that if this is not the right place for this feel free to move it.

Second. I would ask that this thread be monitored carefully because there are some people who will express strong negative and dangerous opinions on it.


Ok - This is something I have thought about for many years. I have been a civil servant most of my life. I started when I was 19 and left when I was 47. I mostly worked for environmental agencies and some medical. But it always seemed to me that many people do not consider "public service" as serving their country. I wish to focus my remarks on people in the health and safety, regulatory, natural science, medical and research fields which are the ones I am most familiar with.
I have no intention of suggesting in anyway that all the others in public service should be left out of the conversation.
But I don't quite know where to go with ths.

When I was in the medical area. We were working on the aspirin research that you now see on TV about heart attacks. Everyone who worked on this from top to bottom (where I worked) was a PS. Our work may have saved thousands of lives.

When I worked in Wildlife our goal was to improve the habitats and viability of our "charges" through management technigues and research (I was mostly the latter). But we helped preserve the natural diversity of our country in doing so.

When I worked as an environmental regulator, As part of a team we helped stop polluters from polluting or helped get them to clean up potentially lethal contaminants from reaching the public water supply or food sources.

These personal examples are not the exception but the rule in the areas I have mentioned in my first paragraph. There are thousands of people at the federal, state and local level who work to safeguard the public in many ways andd protect them from harm.

I am not asking for recognition or a medal. The regular folks along the way who knew what I and others like me were doing who thanked me was good enough.

I am just asking what the objective members of this site who read this think.

Please try and refrain from negative "scumbag" comments about CC (civil servants/ public servants) I would like at least one thread in this forum to be civil.

 

[PirateMk1]

MODERATORS. I would like to ask that if this is not the right place for this feel free to move it.

Second. I would ask that this thread be monitored carefully because there are some people who will express strong negative and dangerous opinions on it.


Ok - This is something I have thought about for many years. I have been a civil servant most of my life. I started when I was 19 and left when I was 47. I mostly worked for environmental agencies and some medical. But it always seemed to me that many people do not consider "public service" as serving their country. I wish to focus my remarks on people in the health and safety, regulatory, natural science, medical and research fields which are the ones I am most familiar with.
I have no intention of suggesting in anyway that all the others in public service should be left out of the conversation.
But I don't quite know where to go with ths.

When I was in the medical area. We were working on the aspirin research that you now see on TV about heart attacks. Everyone who worked on this from top to bottom (where I worked) was a PS. Our work may have saved thousands of lives.

When I worked in Wildlife our goal was to improve the habitats and viability of our "charges" through management technigues and research (I was mostly the latter). But we helped preserve the natural diversity of our country in doing so.

When I worked as an environmental regulator, As part of a team we helped stop polluters from polluting or helped get them to clean up potentially lethal contaminants from reaching the public water supply or food sources.

These personal examples are not the exception but the rule in the areas I have mentioned in my first paragraph. There are thousands of people at the federal, state and local level who work to safeguard the public in many ways andd protect them from harm.

I am not asking for recognition or a medal. The regular folks along the way who knew what I and others like me were doing who thanked me was good enough.

I am just asking what the objective members of this site who read this think.

Please try and refrain from negative "scumbag" comments about CC (civil servants/ public servants) I would like at least one thread in this forum to be civil.

First what is your point or at least what are trying to get from this thread.

Second we now need to MONITOR opinion? Strong or dangerous ones at that? And who is going to detremine if an opinion is strong or even dangerous? Heres another question, how can an OPINION be dangerous? I am curious to know how I can be even remotely harmed by one. This should be.............. interesting.:roll:

 

[wolfman24]

First what is your point or at least what are trying to get from this thread.

Second we now need to MONITOR opinion? Strong or dangerous ones at that? And who is going to detremine if an opinion is strong or even dangerous? Heres another question, how can an OPINION be dangerous? I am curious to know how I can be even remotely harmed by one. This should be.............. interesting.:roll:

First - My point is stated in the middle of my first paragraph. Do you as an individual think that some, most or all of us who are public servants or civil servants (both the same) are serving our country or something else.

Second. I wanted to give the mods a heads up because there are people on this thread who have openly stated that they want to kill every civil servant they can find among other things. This type of request is not unigue. As for the rest of your comments I will just ignore them.

 

[Goshin]

Second. I wanted to give the mods a heads up because there are people on this thread who have openly stated that they want to kill every civil servant they can find among other things. .

Please quote whoever said this, with link to the post.

 

[MaggieD]

MODERATORS. I would like to ask that if this is not the right place for this feel free to move it.

Second. I would ask that this thread be monitored carefully because there are some people who will express strong negative and dangerous opinions on it.

Ok - This is something I have thought about for many years. I have been a civil servant most of my life. I started when I was 19 and left when I was 47. I mostly worked for environmental agencies and some medical. But it always seemed to me that many people do not consider "public service" as serving their country. I wish to focus my remarks on people in the health and safety, regulatory, natural science, medical and research fields which are the ones I am most familiar with.
I have no intention of suggesting in anyway that all the others in public service should be left out of the conversation.
But I don't quite know where to go with ths.

When I was in the medical area. We were working on the aspirin research that you now see on TV about heart attacks. Everyone who worked on this from top to bottom (where I worked) was a PS. Our work may have saved thousands of lives.

When I worked in Wildlife our goal was to improve the habitats and viability of our "charges" through management technigues and research (I was mostly the latter). But we helped preserve the natural diversity of our country in doing so.

When I worked as an environmental regulator, As part of a team we helped stop polluters from polluting or helped get them to clean up potentially lethal contaminants from reaching the public water supply or food sources.

These personal examples are not the exception but the rule in the areas I have mentioned in my first paragraph. There are thousands of people at the federal, state and local level who work to safeguard the public in many ways andd protect them from harm.

I am not asking for recognition or a medal. The regular folks along the way who knew what I and others like me were doing who thanked me was good enough.

I am just asking what the objective members of this site who read this think.

Please try and refrain from negative "scumbag" comments about CC (civil servants/ public servants) I would like at least one thread in this forum to be civil.

I don't think of a postal worker as someone who needs my thanks for being a postal worker. Nor a teacher for being a teacher. Nor a government researcher for being a government researcher. I hadn't really thought about it until you posted, but my knee-jerk reaction is, "Hey, you're an employee like everybody else. You get paid. You probably get better benefits than most people in the United States."

I make an exception for crime fighters, FBI...LEOs...firefighters, etc. because they put their lives on the line. Soldiers? Well, they're in a category all their own. THEY serve their country in my truest definition of the term.

In any event, the fact that you lasted for 30 years with all the government bull**** that must have come your way is a credit to you. I hope you had a satisfying career.

Oh, okayyyyyy.

Thank you for your service.

 

[PirateMk1]

First - My point is stated in the middle of my first paragraph. Do you as an individual think that some, most or all of us who are public servants or civil servants (both the same) are serving our country or something else.

Second. I wanted to give the mods a heads up because there are people on this thread who have openly stated that they want to kill every civil servant they can find among other things. This type of request is not unigue. As for the rest of your comments I will just ignore them.

Oh your talking about me........ wanting to hang em. Word travels around here dont it?:lamo

To answer the question, they serve themselves and their country too I suppose. As too why, well I dont claim to be a mind reader.

As for my questions, they were NOT comments, you afraid you cant answer them with any intelligence? Come on, dont be a chicken, your on a debate forum, your supposed to take on difficult questions. You know you want to. Give into your nature, give in to the darkside.:darthgunny :devil:

 

[wolfman24]

Please quote whoever said this, with link to the post.

I Will try and find it but i have already send a report to the moderators about this guy about a week ago. I even told him I would do it in my post.

I hope you will give me some time. Also Since you are a mod maybe you could look for my report too.

 

[PirateMk1]

Please quote whoever said this, with link to the post.

He's talking about me. As for the posts and were there are, I slept since then, so I couldnt honestly tell you right off the bat. Its gona take some research. Should I look for you?

 

[Fisher]

It seems to me that too many people aspire to government work these days because of the stability/guarantee of benefits. To each their own, but in my area, a government employee at most levels gets paid better and has better benefits than a private sector employee doing comparable work. While I am not saying that is the same everywhere, it hardly makes me think of the status as a civil servant a noble sacrifice.

 

[Lutherf]

Public service isn't any different than any other job. There are good people and bad people.

I work with public service employees all the time and some of them are quite helpful but the a significant percentage I run into are interested in only two things -
1. They don't want to lose their job so they don't make the slightest effort to seek solutions to problems if there is any chance that it will raise a flag.
2. They have come to dislike the public due to the crap that consistently comes their way so they make it a point to be nasty to everyone.

My client made an interesting observation. He mentioned that a lot of public servants don't want to solve too many problems that come their way because if they actually succeeded at doing their job there would be less of a caseload and they'd be liable to get laid off.

 

[Patrickt]

It depends. I was a police officer and I knew some for which the work was quite noble. I know officers who risked their lives for others. I also know officers who said quite bluntly that they would never risk their life for anyone. I won't cheer "public servants" as a group because too damned many will tell you straight out they are nobody's servant. Too many are in it to get the most and give the least.

This is a bit off-topic but in thirty years I met less than a dozen truly evil people and a few of those were unindicted politicians.

But, for me, what I did was more than a job but less than a life. Now I'm retired. Some public employees have all my respect. Others have none.

 

[wolfman24]

I don't think of a postal worker as someone who needs my thanks for being a postal worker. Nor a teacher for being a teacher. Nor a government researcher for being a government researcher. I hadn't really thought about it until you posted, but my knee-jerk reaction is, "Hey, you're an employee like everybody else. You get paid. You probably get better benefits than most people in the United States."

I make an exception for crime fighters, FBI...LEOs...firefighters, etc. because they put their lives on the line. Soldiers? Well, they're in a category all their own. THEY serve their country in my truest definition of the term.

In any event, the fact that you lasted for 30 years with all the government bull**** that must have come your way is a credit to you. I hope you had a satisfying career.

Oh, okayyyyyy.

Thank you for your service.

Okay And I am not trying to start anything but if all we are doing is our jobs why do military people get so much credit? Aren't they JUST employees to? This is my problem. There are so many of us who do work you don't even know about and I can assure you you don't want to but is that serving my country. Or the people who save lives, help the needy, protect the environment.

Unfortunately I worked under mostly republican administrations so no My career was not satisfying and that is not a politcal dig. Republicans see environmental people as more or less vermin something to be gotten rid of and they treat you that way so you will quit. I did not want to for several reasons one being I would not give them the satisfaction.

Again not a dig. Look up environmental performance under Reps v Dems. at especially at the state level if you think it is.

 

[wolfman24]

It depends. I was a police officer and I knew some for which the work was quite noble. I know officers who risked their lives for others. I also know officers who said quite bluntly that they would never risk their life for anyone. I won't cheer "public servants" as a group because too damned many will tell you straight out they are nobody's servant. Too many are in it to get the most and give the least.

This is a bit off-topic but in thirty years I met less than a dozen truly evil people and a few of those were unindicted politicians.

But, for me, what I did was more than a job but less than a life. Now I'm retired. Some public employees have all my respect. Others have none.

Thank you. That is sort of my dilema too. I knew those same type people arm chair beaurocrats and seat warmers. There in lies the rub.

 

[MaggieD]

Okay And I am not trying to start anything but if all we are doing is our jobs why do military people get so much credit? Aren't they JUST employees to? This is my problem. There are so many of us who do work you don't even know about and I can assure you you don't want to but is that serving my country. Or the people who save lives, help the needy, protect the environment.

Unfortunately I worked under mostly republican administrations so no My career was not satisfying and that is not a politcal dig. Republicans see environmental people as more or less vermin something to be gotten rid of and they treat you that way so you will quit. I did not want to for several reasons one being I would not give them the satisfaction.

Again not a dig. Look up environmental performance under Reps v Dems. at especially at the state level if you think it is.

Know what? You sound like a really, really nice guy. For you, Wolfman, just for you, I will say that you served your country. Know why? Because you really and sincerely think that you did. And I agree with you. I mean that. We always say that perception is reality. I'm comfortable saying that Wolfman served his country.

Thank you for your service.

PS -- I notice that you haven't been a member too long. So welcome. And don't let the contentious nature of Debate Politics get you down. We often argue positions we don't even hold . . . just because it's rather fun. Enjoy your retirement, my friend. And again -- thank you for your service.

 

[PirateMk1]

Okay And I am not trying to start anything but if all we are doing is our jobs why do military people get so much credit? Aren't they JUST employees to? This is my problem. There are so many of us who do work you don't even know about and I can assure you you don't want to but is that serving my country. Or the people who save lives, help the needy, protect the environment.

Unfortunately I worked under mostly republican administrations so no My career was not satisfying and that is not a politcal dig. Republicans see environmental people as more or less vermin something to be gotten rid of and they treat you that way so you will quit. I did not want to for several reasons one being I would not give them the satisfaction.

Again not a dig. Look up environmental performance under Reps v Dems. at especially at the state level if you think it is.

You know we have had big rows about civil servants especially the ones that are in the enviormental profession. I dont know you personaly, but Maggie seems to like you and you havent been offensive to me, not offending me isnt saying much though. Point is you seem to be a reasonable guy. For the most part. But I have had the misfortune of meeting your polar opposites here in California and they are quite litterally trying to put me and a whole lot other of partenes and competitors out of business. I work with the oil industry and I run a logistics company so its a double whamy. Believe me when I say this, there is no love lost between me and the Government Nazi's out here. Are they all bad? Hell no. I have met some good people who have helped me a lot navigating the goverment laberanth. They are worth lterally their wieght in not gold, but platinum. If I could give something for their efforts I would gladly. (Gifts and such are unlawful apparently.) I have told them if they ever leave the dark side I would be happy to bankroll a venture for them. I wouldnt even bat an eye. It would be "How much should I write the check for." Geniune nice helpful people who gave me the straight skinny. My DOT guy Hugh being one. He cares about doing his job well and helping me do mine well. I dont mind the inspcetions and the other rigamarol that go with it because the man is straight up doesnt Bull**** me and is fair. Thats all I ask for. Reasonable and fair. I dont think you would believe how fricken hard it is to get that out here. That said there are more than a few twits in civil service out here in Califonia. They have cost me so much money its pitiful. Most of em dont even know what they are doing, let alone the regs and law. Maybe its different else where. I've only really delt with them in California, where they are for the most part absoulutely abismal. I delt with the type overseas too, with the DOD. Though much less so. Thats a large part of the reason more than a few people dont sympathise more with civil servants. At least thats what I think.

 

[Lutherf]

I just want to amend what I said earlier.

I am currently on hold with the IRS (the public service that I deal with most often) to resolve a tax issue. Any time I talk to the IRS about someone's specific issues I need to have a Power of Attorney to get any information. Last year the IRS change their rules so that each individual needed to sign their own POA (we could no longer fill out a POA for husband and wife even if they filed a joint return). Now, for the sake of convenience I usually file these forms on line through the IRS system. That system allows me to file the POA with both names on it and, in theory, automatically submits it to CAF (Centralized Authorization File) so that I'm recorded as being the representative for both taxpayers. When I print the form it prints out as one form, just like the old one.

Now, after sitting on hold for more than 45 min I was "helped" by a nice young lady who asked me what I needed. I explained the situation and she asked if I had filed a POA. I told her that I had done so through eServices and if she didn't have the information I could fax it to her. Here response..."If you don't have 2 POA's I can't help you. I explained to her that I had submitted it through the services own system and that it had been accepted and that I had the acceptance numbers and everything but she was obviously a "category 1" personality and wouldn't listen any farther. The result? I am now on hold again with a different part of the service where the public servants generally have a little more common sense and can actually get things done once in a while.

 

[wolfman24]

I just want to amend what I said earlier.

I am currently on hold with the IRS (the public service that I deal with most often) to resolve a tax issue. Any time I talk to the IRS about someone's specific issues I need to have a Power of Attorney to get any information. Last year the IRS change their rules so that each individual needed to sign their own POA (we could no longer fill out a POA for husband and wife even if they filed a joint return). Now, for the sake of convenience I usually file these forms on line through the IRS system. That system allows me to file the POA with both names on it and, in theory, automatically submits it to CAF (Centralized Authorization File) so that I'm recorded as being the representative for both taxpayers. When I print the form it prints out as one form, just like the old one.

Now, after sitting on hold for more than 45 min I was "helped" by a nice young lady who asked me what I needed. I explained the situation and she asked if I had filed a POA. I told her that I had done so through eServices and if she didn't have the information I could fax it to her. Here response..."If you don't have 2 POA's I can't help you. I explained to her that I had submitted it through the services own system and that it had been accepted and that I had the acceptance numbers and everything but she was obviously a "category 1" personality and wouldn't listen any farther. The result? I am now on hold again with a different part of the service where the public servants generally have a little more common sense and can actually get things done once in a while.

I had a simliar problem with SSI for my son. the women at SS kept me on the phone for more than an hour and a half while she explained every detail of what I would need to have or do to get my son his benefits. As a result we got through the initial process like a breeze. She did not have to do it but she did. She would not give me her name so I could write a letter of thanks to her boss. She said she was just doing her job.

 

[wolfman24]

Know what? You sound like a really, really nice guy. For you, Wolfman, just for you, I will say that you served your country. Know why? Because you really and sincerely think that you did. And I agree with you. I mean that. We always say that perception is reality. I'm comfortable saying that Wolfman served his country.

Thank you for your service.

PS -- I notice that you haven't been a member too long. So welcome. And don't let the contentious nature of Debate Politics get you down. We often argue positions we don't even hold . . . just because it's rather fun. Enjoy your retirement, my friend. And again -- thank you for your service.

I guess my real question here Maggie is for the others not me.

I got all the thanks I will ever need in 1997. We all were assigned regions and there was a town in mine that had been stonewalled by the person who I was replacing. They were very frustrated. They wanted to start work on a new water system but 3 people who had businesses in the area also had pollution problems and would not cooperate. My predecessor was a seat warmer. I went there to see if I could help and found that the answer to their problem was very simple. I told the Mayor and the city attorney what my idea was and they overflowed with gratitude. Really nice feeling.

Anyhow, back at the ranch. When a report mandated by law was over due we were reguired to send the owner/operator a letter notifying him/her. I usually waited about 3 months before doing that but still had to write alot of letters. The ivory tower in my department did not like the idea that the office I worked in was "bothering" so many business people (remember statutorially mandated letters). and we got repeatedly dinged for it. Some how the mayor of the town found out and wrote the division chief telling him to stop trying to prevent us from doing what the law required or he (mayor) would contact his legislators and start asking them why the head of the environmental department was interferring with the statutory obligations of his employees. he also sent along a commendation letter for me and my office.
That was enough then and still is.

But my question remains (excluding me) service to our country?

But I thank you for your comments.

 

[Fiddytree]

Please quote whoever said this, with link to the post.

It was a response to me by Pirate. The exchange goes on for a bit.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/138238-academia-vs-joe-sixpack-3.html#post1060980719

 

[Fiddytree]

I would say most of all, people have the misconception of bureaucracy as some bad force in public life. Aside from the fact that we need one, people also forget the relative history with how public appointees or employees were actually gathered and used. They were frequently patronage positions and on top of that, they were unskilled/untrained. In the beginning of the 20th century, with help from many progressives, including Woodrow Wilson (who had studied and wrote on the topic as a younger man) had fundamentally changed how public civil servants were gathered and trained. It is unfortunate that we today see them as inept persons, when in reality, they aren't.

 

[Caine]

My client made an interesting observation. He mentioned that a lot of public servants don't want to solve too many problems that come their way because if they actually succeeded at doing their job there would be less of a caseload and they'd be liable to get laid off.

Interesting thought that...

I've learned that in policing, you don't want to work too hard and establish a higher level of expected work product because if you do, and later things get slow or you slow down because of cases that take longer, you're liable to get screwed with for your "productivity" falling off.

Stupid numbers games. :roll:

 

[Caine]

Thank you. That is sort of my dilema too. I knew those same type people arm chair beaurocrats and seat warmers. There in lies the rub.

Oh good god man do we have those in law enforcement........

Almost (not all) anyone with brass on their collar are less law enforcement and more politician.

 

[wolfman24]

Oh good god man do we have those in law enforcement........

Almost (not all) anyone with brass on their collar are less law enforcement and more politician.

When I worked in the environmental field, we use to say anyone who wants to become a supervisor should be automatically disqualified.

 

[American]

It was a response to me by Pirate. The exchange goes on for a bit.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/138238-academia-vs-joe-sixpack-3.html#post1060980719

Is this the way to report it?

 

[Fiddytree]

Is this the way to report it?

Goshin didn't specify PM or any other function through the website reporting. I could have done that, and a moderator can feel free to erase the message or whatever else if so be it.

I will add though, that whatever it was that the poster to state such things, he specifically said 1) he was being sarcastic 2) he somehow moved from those comments later on (as seen in an earlier post in this thread).