Prove to me.

[Kal'Stang]

I was just following along and I saw comments like this more than once. Doesn't the gun itself cost money? That said and under the same logic, shouldn't the government be providing these weapons to everybody in order to make sure that every citizen has equal access to that right? Sorry for jumping in, but I was quite curious on where this went.

There's a difference between paying $100 for a gun and paying $100 for a gun AND $200 for the licensing adding up to $300.

Point is that excessive fee's can put being able to buy a gun out of reach for some people.

The same point that people make in regards to voting and poll taxes can be asserted here.

 

[TurtleDude]

There's a difference between paying $100 for a gun and paying $100 for a gun AND $200 for the licensing adding up to $300.

Point is that excessive fee's can put being able to buy a gun out of reach for some people.

The same point that people make in regards to voting and poll taxes can be asserted here.

the BATF admit that the purpose of a 200 dollar tax in 1934 was to effectively ban machine guns

 

[spud_meister]

what I am saying is that mass shootings in Australia were extremely rare and much more research would have to be done in order to establish that people who are willing to commit the most heinous crimes imaginable are going to be prevented by a gun ban

What other factors changed in Australia after 1996? There was no massive social changes, no great shift in wealth or economic participation, no rise in levels of education. The only variable factor was access to firearms. Now, to get firearms in Australia, you must either be a competitive shooter, and thus unlikely to go on a rampage, or a member of a criminal gang, and thus unlikely to go on a rampage.

and the real issue is the rate of actual gun violence not "mass shootings"

20 people getting shot is really bad but its no different than the 20 killed weekly in places like chicago

Gun violence also declined in Australia after the ban, though not to the same degree as mass shootings, and is still in decline despite changing demographics.


Thus, we can draw from this information, gun control can reduce crime, under the right circumstances, which are an isolated nation with relatively secured borders, a homogenous population, high levels of wealth and education, and little to no gun-oriented culture.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Which post would that be?

I'm in middle of work so please look back a bit. It will be the first response to you after you provided a link to that "study".

There is no actual difference in practice nor in reality.

Just like there's no difference between infringed and infringements?

But in reality yes, there is a difference. In this case one is intentionally omitted due to being restricted from being able to do so. The other is unintentional due to being able to cover it but just not covering it.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

20 people getting shot is really bad but its no different than the 20 killed weekly in places like chicago

I think it is, kids shouldn't be gunned down in school, gang members voluntarily living the gang life know the risks they run.

 

[haymarket]

I'm in middle of work so please look back a bit. It will be the first response to you after you provided a link to that "study".



Just like there's no difference between infringed and infringements? .

Apples and cinderblocks actually.

 

[haymarket]

Haymarket's source is worthless because the citations are worthless, and therefore his arguments have been defeated.

If you will not do the work to check them out - the fault is your own. Neither you nor anyone else has defeated anything.

Please see my post 161 because far too many of you are concentrating on one tree instead of the actual forest

But, there has been a crystal clear demonstration here that far too many have a deep fear of the forest which they mask with false bravado.

 

[American]

I think it is, kids shouldn't be gunned down in school, gang members voluntarily living the gang life know the risks they run.

This looks like the same tired **** we've seen for about a year now. "Heavens, think of the children!"

 

[American]

If you will not do the work to check them out - the fault is your own. Neither you nor anyone else has defeated anything.

Please see my post 161 because far too many of you are concentrating on one tree instead of the actual forest

But, there has been a crystal clear demonstration here that far too many have a deep fear of the forest which they mask with false bravado.

More gibberish, you haven't provided verifiable sources.

 

[haymarket]

More gibberish, you haven't provided verifiable sources.

for what? You still do not realize you all did just what I predicted you would do and even did it in the exact same thread I laid it all out early on?

WOW!!!! You really either do not get it or you are so deep in denial you just refuse to get it!

 

[haymarket]

This looks like the same tired **** we've seen for about a year now. "Heavens, think of the children!"

yeah - screw those damn children for getting in the way of right wing ideology. :roll::doh:shock:

 

[American]

yeah - screw those damn children for getting in the way of right wing ideology. :roll::doh:shock:

It's not about the children, if it were there'd be security at the school instead of idiot gun-free zones.

 

[haymarket]

It's not about the children, if it were there'd be security at the school instead of idiot gun-free zones.

I have been on record since Sandy Hook endorsing the NRA idea that we should have am armed professional working in every school in America.

In Michigan, we were told its about money.

 

[Arbo]

You said: "Gun control prevents mass shootings."

I said that was a lie. You counter with…

In the last 18 years since gun control was introduced, Australia has had 2 mass shootings (with a body count of 5).

Thanks for proving what I said to be true. For if what you said was true, there would be zero.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

This looks like the same tired **** we've seen for about a year now. "Heavens, think of the children!"

Pay attention to what I said, I hope you agree kids should be safe in school. Wether it's armed guards or better mental healthcare, or gun control measures that will actually help prevent shootings (like mental health orders, or safe storage laws) we need to address this issue, I own guns I have a concealed carry license, I do not support banning you from owning a gun or carrying one to protect yourself. But let's stop pretending that school violence is to be ignored.

 

[TurtleDude]

I think it is, kids shouldn't be gunned down in school, gang members voluntarily living the gang life know the risks they run.

lots of those killed are caught in crossfires or shot by people who mistake them for Gangbangers

 

[spud_meister]

You said: "Gun control prevents mass shootings."

I said that was a lie. You counter with…



Thanks for proving what I said to be true. For if what you said was true, there would be zero.

Really? Your argument is pedantry? When you visit a prostitute, I assume you don't wear a condom, because even though condoms prevent the spread of STD's, they're not 100% effective. But if I makes you feel better, from now on I'll say gun control prevents the vast majority of mass shooting.

 

[TurtleDude]

Really? Your argument is pedantry? When you visit a prostitute, I assume you don't wear a condom, because even though condoms prevent the spread of STD's, they're not 100% effective. But if I makes you feel better, from now on I'll say gun control prevents the vast majority of mass shooting.

what happens in australia has almost no relevance to our country

too many differences

 

[spud_meister]

what happens in australia has almost no relevance to our country

too many differences

I'm not saying I does. I'm saying gun control reduces crime, under the right circumstances.

 

[chromium]

What might work is for your society to, little by little, reduce the degree of fetishisation of guns in a way that someone packing a side-arm doesn't always get presented as being macho, cool and sexy. That might encourage people to control their own fetish for guns, rather than leaving it all to legislation and enforcement. There are clearly many countries with gun ownership rates as high as the US, but with gun crime stats way lower. Why not look at what they're doing right, which clearly isn't just about limiting the availability of firearms?

Agree with this completely and i really don't get why guns = badass. A 4 year old can use them lethally and a huge number who do acquire guns are driven by fear.

 

[TurtleDude]

I'm not saying I does. I'm saying gun control reduces crime, under the right circumstances.

and it increases crime in many more circumstances in the USA

and it almost always harasses honest people at far higher levels than it impedes unmotivated criminals

 

[pdog]

There's a difference between paying $100 for a gun and paying $100 for a gun AND $200 for the licensing adding up to $300.

Point is that excessive fee's can put being able to buy a gun out of reach for some people.

The same point that people make in regards to voting and poll taxes can be asserted here.

What is the difference between $100 and $300 dollars - not literally, but they're two arbitrary numbers. Yes I agree on the poll tax anology - even at $100 dollars. It doesn't seem like a "right" should cost a dime.

 

[Kal'Stang]

What is the difference between $100 and $300 dollars - not literally, but they're two arbitrary numbers. Yes I agree on the poll tax anology - even at $100 dollars. It doesn't seem like a "right" should cost a dime.

Not really arbitrary numbers. At least not the cost of the gun. The tax...yeah..thats arbitrary.

As for the price of the gun...yeah people might have a right to own a gun, they don't have a right to other peoples work or property.

 

[American]

Agree with this completely and i really don't get why guns = badass. A 4 year old can use them lethally and a huge number who do acquire guns are driven by fear.

Sources?

 

[TurtleDude]

Sources?

faith based feelings