Protests In Response To Roe v Wade Being Overturned

[choiceone]

Absolutely correct.


Yes, it can. Assumption of the risk.

Creation is not assumption of the risk. If you did not mentally do it, you didn't do it. It is only on this basis that you can assert the embryo is not itself a rapist or physical assaulter.

Furthermore, it is only on this basis that you could assert that a state banning the removal of the embryo by the woman or third party is not an intentional physical assaulter.

Since the state consciously knows that banning that removal will cause harm to the woman, it is at least committing a type of criminal negligence if any harm is done to her mind or body, because that harm could be eliminated.

It's no different if the state consciously knows that banning medical help in setting a broken leg or having a treatment to undo the damage of a car accident is criminal negligence. If she were allowed the natural means of fixing the harm from an accident for which she assumed the risk, she would not suffer permanent harm.

The notion that pregnancy is not permanent harm is belied by the fact that pregnancy has been treated as additional injury in rape cases in some state laws, at least for those who have never given birth. I seriously doubt that you would be unable to find two obgyns willing to swear in court that pregnancy carried to term is injury.

 

[choiceone]

We’re not talking about laws that keep women from making a decision. We’re talking about laws that make harming a fetus with the right to life a criminal act.

As a general statement, yes, I favor a government action to prevent harm from being inflected on others, even where that action offends your political views.

There is online a website from a group of Jewish women that explains how to take mifepristone and misoprostol so that, if you later need emergency help in a hospital for a miscarriage, no medical personnel will be able to tell that you took them. It will be the same as a natural miscarriage with their directions. It would be impossible to tell that she harmed an embryo or early fetus.

The only way you can prevent the harm to the fetus is to figure out how to force the woman to continue the pregnancy. Since fear doesn't work, as she can do the above or, in the worst case, commit suicide, you will have to do the following.

Arrest an innocent pregnant person, put her in a strait jacket in a padded cell, put a barrier between her teeth to prevent her from biting off her tongue to commit suicide, and force-feed her for the duration of the pregnancy. Because things often go wrong with a pregnancy, especially under stress, you will have to put her in an unconscious state with drugs several times during the pregnancy so that a doctor can examine her.

You think you'll make a state law so that the state will do that to her for anywhere from six to nine months? What that says about you and the people making those laws is that you are a terroristic fascist without a conscience or any commitment to human rights. There is a large number of free nations that would probably be willing to ally themselves and invade the US to take it over to make you stop and huge numbers of Americans who would collaborate with them.

The notion that a mindless embryo is equal to a woman with mind and that doing that to a person with mind to save a mindless embryo is deeply perverted.

 

[weaver2]

We’re not talking about laws that keep women from making a decision. We’re talking about laws that make harming a fetus with the right to life a criminal act.

As a general statement, yes, I favor a government action to prevent harm from being inflected on others, even where that action offends your political views.

No, I think we are talking about laws that say women can't make a decision about aborting.

You don't get to make a decision about your personal life that also harms another.

 

[weaver2]

We’re not talking about laws that keep women from making a decision. We’re talking about laws that make harming a fetus with the right to life a criminal act.

So the focus of anti-abortion advocates is punishing women for aborting. Good to see someone finally admitting the obvious.

As a general statement, yes, I favor a government action to prevent harm from being inflected on others, even where that action offends your political views.

What about a government that looks for a solution to the actual problem instead of leaping joyfully to punishment of women as the anti-abortion movement does. What about government action that prevents unwanted pregnancy by subsidizing the most effective women's contraceptives so all women can prevent a pregnancy that neither they, their partner, their family nor society wants to happen.

I know that subsidizing effective BC takes all the joy out of being an anti-abortion conservative but isn't it really more humane then jail or execution as some anti-abortion enthusiasts have suggested?

 

[NatMorton]

So then the women still have the right to kill the unborn. There's no right to life for the unborn that the state can defend...she can kill her own unborn.

I just said I wasn’t aware of any. I never claimed there are no such laws.

 

[NatMorton]

There is online a website from a group of Jewish women that explains how to take mifepristone and misoprostol so that, if you later need emergency help in a hospital for a miscarriage, no medical personnel will be able to tell that you took them. It will be the same as a natural miscarriage with their directions. It would be impossible to tell that she harmed an embryo or early fetus.

The only way you can prevent the harm to the fetus is to figure out how to force the woman to continue the pregnancy. Since fear doesn't work, as she can do the above or, in the worst case, commit suicide, you will have to do the following.

Arrest an innocent pregnant person, put her in a strait jacket in a padded cell, put a barrier between her teeth to prevent her from biting off her tongue to commit suicide, and force-feed her for the duration of the pregnancy. Because things often go wrong with a pregnancy, especially under stress, you will have to put her in an unconscious state with drugs several times during the pregnancy so that a doctor can examine her.

You think you'll make a state law so that the state will do that to her for anywhere from six to nine months? What that says about you and the people making those laws is that you are a terroristic fascist without a conscience or any commitment to human rights. There is a large number of free nations that would probably be willing to ally themselves and invade the US to take it over to make you stop and huge numbers of Americans who would collaborate with them.

The notion that a mindless embryo is equal to a woman with mind and that doing that to a person with mind to save a mindless embryo is deeply perverted.

Yes, there are ways break almost any law and get away with it. That is not a reason to not have laws.

 

[Lursa]

I just said I wasn’t aware of any. I never claimed there are no such laws.

So then respond directly to the argument...it works even in 1 or 2 states do.

Are you typing just to type and not look like you're finished?

 

[LittleNipper]

There are some out there who would want to allow babies to die who were born alive by accident! https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CREC-2019-02-13/html/CREC-2019-02-13-pt1-PgH1560-2.htm

 

[NOVA66]

Across the USA there are all sorts of protests going on because of the recent decision by the SCOTUS where they overturned Roe v Wade. Lets be civilized, you can't always get what you want and when you don't get what you want yelling and screaming and looking like absolute buffoons isn't going to change it.

Tell that to the Jan. 6 insurrectionists.

 

[NOVA66]

There are some out there who would want to allow babies to die who were born alive by accident! https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CREC-2019-02-13/html/CREC-2019-02-13-pt1-PgH1560-2.htm

There are also those out there that wants a mother to die along with the fetus if complications happens in pregnancy instead of having a abortion to at least save the mother.

 

[LittleNipper]

There are also those out there that wants a mother to die along with the fetus if complications happens in pregnancy instead of having a abortion to at least save the mother.

Nope. That is where caesarean deliveries come in. And frankly, women or anyone walking around with body art or piercings are not building a case for that train of thought.

 

[NOVA66]

Nope. That is where caesarean deliveries come in.

Depends on how far alone the mother is.

 

[weaver2]

There are some out there who would want to allow babies to die who were born alive by accident! https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CREC-2019-02-13/html/CREC-2019-02-13-pt1-PgH1560-2.htm

Well that testimony certainly showcases the followers of emotionalism eschewing rational thought, sound psychogy and scientific knowledge.
A better example of hasty generalization, straw-man fallacy, begging the question, false dichotomy, non-sequitur and bandwagoning one seldom encounters.

 

[Gordy327]

Nope. That is where caesarean deliveries come in. And frankly, women or anyone walking around with body art or piercings are not building a case for that train of thought.

Are you actually trying to compare body piercings with an invasive surgery? Really?

 

[LittleNipper]

Are you actually trying to compare body piercings with an invasive surgery? Really?

Body piercings are entirely unnecessary for the health of those so adorned. And there is a risk of infection that can occur at anytime during or after the unnecessary procedure. The practice cared to the extreme is both grotesque and unhealthy. It is archaic, pagan, and tribal. Nobody has ever been improved upon through body art. And it is not FREE!

 

[Gordy327]

Body piercings are entirely unnecessary for the health of those so adorned.

So? They are entirely cosmetic. No one ever said they were for health matters. Trying to compare it to surgical procedures is disingenuous.

And there is a risk of infection that can occur at anytime during or after the unnecessary procedure.

There is also a risk of infection from surgical procedures such as a C-section. What's your point?

The practice cared to the extreme is both grotesque and unhealthy. It is archaic, pagan, and tribal. Nobody has ever been improved upon through body art.

Your opinion is noted. And other opinions may vary as well.

And it is not FREE!

No one ever said it was. Surgical procedures are not free either. If someone wants a tattoo, they pay for it out of pocket. So what's your point?

 

[LittleNipper]

So? They are entirely cosmetic. No one ever said they were for health matters. Trying to compare it to surgical procedures is disingenuous.

Not really. It demonstrates that some surgery is practical and some surgical procedures are idiotic and vain.

There is also a risk of infection from surgical procedures such as a C-section. What's your point?

My point is that if you are going to risk an infection and possibly death to have an ugly piercing, than a C-section to save both a baby and it's mother is hardly something to complain about.

Your opinion is noted. And other opinions may vary as well.

Well, people will contribute to save someone's baby but never towards someone else's tattoo.

No one ever said it was. Surgical procedures are not free either. If someone wants a tattoo, they pay for it out of pocket. So what's your point?

Generally, hospital procedures to save a mother and her child are covered by healthcare. If the woman wishes to not abort her baby and has healthcare problems, there are Christian organizations who will pay the expenses and place the baby with adoptive parents. The same cannot be said for bady art.

 

[choiceone]

Nope. That is where caesarean deliveries come in. And frankly, women or anyone walking around with body art or piercings are not building a case for that train of thought.

Caesarian sections are dangerous, though they are sometimes less so than natural delivery, because they are actual surgical operations that involve cutting the woman's body open fairly extensively and counting on natural healing of the stitched up cut.

If you want an earlobe piercing to grow back, all you have to do is stop wearing an earring and it will. If anything bad happens and you have to lose the earlobe, it doesn't matter because earlobes have no organismic function.

If the woman's body doesn't heal properly after a caesarian, she can die. In addition, most doctors think that once a woman has had a caesarian, it's risky for future deliveries by any other means, yet multiple caesarians become more dangerous the more one has them.

Your attitude toward this is so cavalier that, if you're a man, you certainly should never be replicated.

 

[LittleNipper]

Caesarian sections are dangerous, though they are sometimes less so than natural delivery, because they are actual surgical operations that involve cutting the woman's body open fairly extensively and counting on natural healing of the stitched up cut.

If you want an earlobe piercing to grow back, all you have to do is stop wearing an earring and it will. If anything bad happens and you have to lose the earlobe, it doesn't matter because earlobes have no organismic function.

If the woman's body doesn't heal properly after a caesarian, she can die. In addition, most doctors think that once a woman has had a caesarian, it's risky for future deliveries by any other means, yet multiple caesarians become more dangerous the more one has them.

Your attitude toward this is so cavalier that, if you're a man, you certainly should never be replicated.

A caesarean operation is done only if a natural birth proves dangerous for both the woman and the baby and is performed by a physician in a hospital. Piercings and tattoos are performed by just about anybody. In many states one doesn't even need a licence. And this is the point I was attempting to make. And only if a man I should certainly never be "replicated". What a bias statement.

 

[Scrabaholic]

Nope. That is where caesarean deliveries come in. And frankly, women or anyone walking around with body art or piercings are not building a case for that train of thought.

1 C-section can be much riskier than abortion at that stage

2 WTF does body art or piercings have to do w/ it?

 

[LittleNipper]

1 C-section can be much riskier than abortion at that stage

2 WT_ does body art or piercings have to do w/ it?

People who would risk their health to obtain body art but would do nothing to save their baby for fear of a possible infection are lame to say the very least.

 

[LittleNipper]

There are also those out there that wants a mother to die along with the fetus if complications happens in pregnancy instead of having a abortion to at least save the mother.

Hogwash! I as a husband would want to save the life of my wife. My wife would want to save the life of her baby. The reality is that the mother in every case (unless there was no hope of life -- such as a coma victim, etc...) would be saved at the expense of the infant. That said, I as the husband and father, my wife as the mother, the doctor, the pastor of our church, and everyone at our church would be in prayer. Everyone would realize that such a death was in the hands of GOD and a sacrifice to save another life. Note the word SACRIFICE. Such a death would not be the end result of not wanting the infant.

 

[NOVA66]

Hogwash! I as a husband would want to save the life of my wife. My wife would want to save the life of her baby. The reality is that the mother in every case (unless there was no hope of life -- such as a coma victim, etc...) would be saved at the expense of the infant. That said, I as the husband and father, my wife as the mother, the doctor, the pastor of our church, and everyone at our church would be in prayer. Everyone would realize that such a death was in the hands of GOD and a sacrifice to save another life. Note the word SACRIFICE. Such a death would not be the end result of not wanting the infant.

Tell that to the Republican thugs that say no abortion under any circumstances.

 

[mamasin]

Nope. That is where caesarean deliveries come in. And frankly, women or anyone walking around with body art or piercings are not building a case for that train of thought.

say you're a misogynistic control freak without actually saying it. or shall i say it for you? please get an irreversible vasectomy asap. preferably done by a female doctor who has read your posts. and give my deepest sympathies to any female who has to be around you in RL.

 

[mamasin]

Body piercings are entirely unnecessary for the health of those so adorned. And there is a risk of infection that can occur at anytime during or after the unnecessary procedure. The practice cared to the extreme is both grotesque and unhealthy. It is archaic, pagan, and tribal. Nobody has ever been improved upon through body art. And it is not FREE!

feel free not to get any then. i choose not to, but i certainly don't fault anyone else who chooses to do so. and by the way, I'M pagan.