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Proper Treatment Of Those Who Switch Sides

BahamaBob said:
My first shotgun was an 870 pump. This was about 60 years ago. It was an excellent gun, I still have it. After that I got an 1100, another great gun. Since then either my taste has gone up or the quality has gone down. My third shotgun was a Belgium Browning. After that I bought a Ruger Red Label over and under and a Benelli Super 90. I also have a 10 gauge Browning Gold Invecter. My brother shoots an 870 10 gauge, it is an arm breaker. If you buy a 10 gauge, don't get a pump, the auto has half the recoil. I think Remington is still a fine, moderately priced shotgun. However, it is not in the same ballpark as a new Benelli. I have always considered a Mossberg a POS.
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As I said, back in the day Remington did make really good guns. Remington did make a fine moderately priced shotgun but I wouldn't get one today. I would say it was during the Obama administration that their quality dropped which sadly happened with some other gun companies too as they were trying to keep up with the tremendous demand. I've never had a 10 gauge but I imagine it would be fun to shoot although I've shot guns much bigger.
 
DebateChallenge said:
From reviews in the gun world. Remington was producing faulty guns during the Obama administration when gun demand was really high. Whether or not they're still producing faulty guns I don't know but I don't see myself as buying another Remington any time soon. Some Remington guns would even fire without the trigger being pulled which is very dangerous and not a gun I would want...
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Do you have any links to reviews of falling quality standards ?

The link you gave was for a hunting rifle not a shotgun, and not a pump action shotgun
It mentioned a design issue (not a quality/build issue) with a hunting rifle's trigger that, according to your report, had been an issue for some years



Back in the day Remington was the Rolls-Royce of pump action shotguns or to put it more accurately they were the poor man's Rolls-Royce of pump action shotguns since Remingtons had around an average price for shotguns unlike Brownings which were considerably more expensive. By back in the day Im talking 20 years ago and earlier.
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Yet a certain poster posted a short post deriding the suggestion that a mass produced item could ever be described as a "Rolls-Royce"

Of course if you want craftsmanship, buy a Holland & Holland shogun - I don't think they do pump action shotguns though.



(Cue Fledermaus and RF searching the internet on a fruitless search for a H&H pump-action shotgun)
 
Rich2018 said:
Do you have any links to reviews of falling quality standards ?

The link you gave was for a hunting rifle not a shotgun, and not a pump action shotgun
It mentioned a design issue (not a quality/build issue) with a hunting rifle's trigger that, according to your report, had been an issue for some years






Yet a certain poster posted a short post deriding the suggestion that a mass produced item could ever be described as a "Rolls-Royce"

Of course if you want craftsmanship, buy a Holland & Holland shogun - I don't think they do pump action shotguns though.



(Cue Fledermaus and RF searching the internet on a fruitless search for a H&H pump-action shotgun)
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Why the baiting? Why not just directly respond to the posts/posters you reference?

Is it because it's easier for you to respond with lies and mischaracterization when there is no direct reference?
 
DebateChallenge said:
As I said, back in the day Remington did make really good guns. Remington did make a fine moderately priced shotgun but I wouldn't get one today. I would say it was during the Obama administration that their quality dropped which sadly happened with some other gun companies too as they were trying to keep up with the tremendous demand. I've never had a 10 gauge but I imagine it would be fun to shoot although I've shot guns much bigger.
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Do you have any particular models (of pump action shotgun that is) in mind to show Remington has produced a lower standard of gun ?
 
Rich2018 said:
Do you have any particular models (of pump action shotgun that is) in mind to show Remington has produced a lower standard of gun ?
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A model 870 produced today, not one produced 20 plus years ago.
 
Rich2018 said:
And a review of a recently produced example of that model to back up your claim ?
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You're challenging him to a Youtube duel?
 
DebateChallenge said:
As I said, back in the day Remington did make really good guns. Remington did make a fine moderately priced shotgun but I wouldn't get one today. I would say it was during the Obama administration that their quality dropped which sadly happened with some other gun companies too as they were trying to keep up with the tremendous demand. I've never had a 10 gauge but I imagine it would be fun to shoot although I've shot guns much bigger.
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The 10 gauge gives you about another 30 yards over a 3" 12 gauge, great for geese. The biggest gun I ever shot was a 700 Nitro. The shells cost $100 each but it was worth it.

I just looked it up. The 870 goes for about 330 now and the 1100 is about 450. If the quality is anywhere near what it was when I bought mine, they are well worth the money. However, it is a shame when companies cut the quality of their weapons. I would gladly pay a few more bucks for a quality weapon. I think most sportsmen would. Makes me think of the old Saturday Night Specials that used to be available for idiots.
 
BahamaBob said:
The 10 gauge gives you about another 30 yards over a 3" 12 gauge, great for geese. The biggest gun I ever shot was a 700 Nitro. The shells cost $100 each but it was worth it.

I just looked it up. The 870 goes for about 330 now and the 1100 is about 450. If the quality is anywhere near what it was when I bought mine, they are well worth the money. However, it is a shame when companies cut the quality of their weapons. I would gladly pay a few more bucks for a quality weapon. I think most sportsmen would. Makes me think of the old Saturday Night Specials that used to be available for idiots.
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At least for the 870, that price is for the Express version. That's a gun built to a price point and is somewhat rougher cosmetically and mechanically than the 870 Wingmaster. The Wingmaster would be more directly comparable to the older 870s and would set you back about 7-800 new.

Edit: Looking at the Remington site, it looks like the MSRP of a Mod 1100 is about $1300.
 
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RF667799 said:
At least for the 870, that price is for the Express version. That's a gun built to a price point and is somewhat rougher cosmetically and mechanically than the 870 Wingmaster. The Wingmaster would be more directly comparable to the older 870s and would set you back about 7-800 new.

Edit: Looking at the Remington site, it looks like the MSRP of a Mod 1100 is about $1300.
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I think you are looking at the Sporting 28 ga. Either that or the actual price is a lot less than the MSRP. When I look at gunwatcher.com they are around 450. If they are 1300 they are overpriced.
 
BahamaBob said:
I think you are looking at the Sporting 28 ga. Either that or the actual price is a lot less than the MSRP. When I look at gunwatcher.com they are around 450. If they are 1300 they are overpriced.
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If you are talking the 1100, I said it was MSRP. Yeah, they will sell a little less than that. I checked the gunwatcher site you mention (thanks for it, btw) and the cheapest I see is around 900. Don't confuse an 1100 for an 11-87.
 
BahamaBob said:
The 10 gauge gives you about another 30 yards over a 3" 12 gauge, great for geese. The biggest gun I ever shot was a 700 Nitro. The shells cost $100 each but it was worth it.
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Wow that must've been fun. Ever try a 600 Overkill?
600 Overkill - American Hunting Rifles

BahamaBob said:
I just looked it up. The 870 goes for about 330 now and the 1100 is about 450. If the quality is anywhere near what it was when I bought mine, they are well worth the money. However, it is a shame when companies cut the quality of their weapons. I would gladly pay a few more bucks for a quality weapon. I think most sportsmen would. Makes me think of the old Saturday Night Specials that used to be available for idiots.
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Although it will be quite a bit more than just a "few bucks more" if I were to get a high quality shotgun today I would go with a Benelli.
 
BahamaBob said:
The 10 gauge gives you about another 30 yards over a 3" 12 gauge, great for geese. The biggest gun I ever shot was a 700 Nitro. The shells cost $100 each but it was worth it.

I just looked it up. The 870 goes for about 330 now and the 1100 is about 450. If the quality is anywhere near what it was when I bought mine, they are well worth the money. However, it is a shame when companies cut the quality of their weapons. I would gladly pay a few more bucks for a quality weapon. I think most sportsmen would. Makes me think of the old Saturday Night Specials that used to be available for idiots.
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But are you aware of Remington sacrificing build quality for production quantity as was claimed ?
 
Rich2018 said:
But are you aware of Remington sacrificing build quality for production quantity as was claimed ?
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Not simply because of production quantity. Rather in an effort to meet a lower price point and save money on overall production in general. Anyone who would say an "Express" model of Remington shotgun is up to the standards of a "Wingmaster" has little to no familiarity with the subject.

Besides, you were already given the answer to your never ending quest for Youtube links.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Although it will be quite a bit more than just a "few bucks more" if I were to get a high quality shotgun today I would go with a Benelli.
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I must admit that's a brand I don't know anything about, what are the benefits over a Remington or a Mossberg ?
 
RF667799 said:
If you are talking the 1100, I said it was MSRP. Yeah, they will sell a little less than that. I checked the gunwatcher site you mention (thanks for it, btw) and the cheapest I see is around 900. Don't confuse an 1100 for an 11-87.
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If you like handguns you might look at CDNN Sports as well. They buy guns from the military and police, then send them to the factory for a complete rebuild and sell them cheap. I bought a couple of guns from them and they are like brand new guns.
 
DebateChallenge said:
Wow that must've been fun. Ever try a 600 Overkill?
600 Overkill - American Hunting Rifles


Although it will be quite a bit more than just a "few bucks more" if I were to get a high quality shotgun today I would go with a Benelli.
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I have never shot a 600 Overkill, looks like a mans gun though. I agree on the Benelli. I have a Benelli Super 90 and it is the best all around shotgun I have ever owned.
 
BahamaBob said:
If you like handguns you might look at CDNN Sports as well. They buy guns from the military and police, then send them to the factory for a complete rebuild and sell them cheap. I bought a couple of guns from them and they are like brand new guns.
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Sort of like what Wilson Combat do, except I don't think you would call the guns that they offer as "cheap"
 
BahamaBob said:
I have never shot a 600 Overkill, looks like a mans gun though. I agree on the Benelli. I have a Benelli Super 90 and it is the best all around shotgun I have ever owned.
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The 600 Overkill is a real beast, the rounds are $20 apiece. It could no doubt take down an adult female T-Rex, if they weren't extinct.
 
DebateChallenge said:
The 600 Overkill is a real beast, the rounds are $20 apiece. It could no doubt take down an adult female T-Rex, if they weren't extinct.
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Why on earth would you want one

It smack of the .50" revolvers - made just because you can.

If you made it just a little bigger you could mount it on a tripod and fire cannon shells from it.
 
Rich2018 said:
Why on earth would you want one
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Because I can get them.

Rich2018 said:
It smack of the .50" revolvers - made just because you can.
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.50 revolvers are used for hunting large game, and so is the 600 Overkill.

Rich2018 said:
If you made it just a little bigger you could mount it on a tripod and fire cannon shells from it.
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No a cannon shell would be of considerably greater caliber. A 600 overkill is about 15.25 millimeters, cannon shells start at over 400 millimeters.
 
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