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Progressives pledge to keep pushing Biden to expand court

Cardinal said:
I want HR1, an expanded healthcare bill and climate change policies to be passed, and a locked-up right wing court makes that impossible. That's all there is to it.
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How does the court do that?
 
ASHES said:
Just because you don't like the decorations of the previous owner does not mean that the house is burned down, just that you don't like it the way it is, and are claiming it is because you want it completely obliterated so you can remake it in your image from the ground up.


And here I was told the only threat of violence was from the right.

And on this very board I was told the only credible threat of violence was from the right. In another thread I was told by a progressive the other side is so far gone they needed to be "eliminated." Sounds like you're ready and eager for war. When called on it, it's always "Who me? No never, that was the other guy, probably a Russian troll. We are the party of peace!"
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There is a political war going on now in the US... sorry if you don't like the term...
 
BlueTex said:
There is a political war going on now in the US... sorry if you don't like the term...
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There is politics as usual going on, with ratcheted tensions and increasingly violent rhetoric and actual violence from both sides.
 
ludin said:
The court will have nothing to do with his agenda unless you think biden is going to make a ton of unconstitutional laws.
if that is the case why are you supporting biden again?

you howl about the constitution on a daily basis so why would you support someone that is going to sign a bunch of unconstitutional laws?
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What is happening is that Progressives and liberals tend to view the courts as a legislative body-- if they can't get the support of the people via their elected representatives for whatever particular policy they desire, they will work to get it accomplished through the courts. So they have a concern with losing control of that branch.
They then assume that conservatives or non-progressives view the courts they do.
 
Cardinal said:
The "power grab" I don't like is the legislation you propose requiring a supermajority for later court expansion. That's an unequal exercise of power. By expanding the courts so that HR1 passes (you wanted extra states, remember), it levels the playing field because, like Democrats, Republicans will be forced to win elections on the strength of their ideas instead of the selection and elimination of voters. HR1 goes an extremely long ways toward eliminating a structure in which Republicans rule through minority.
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The trouble with your approach is that they'll just pack the court again themselves when they get a chance.

Whereas with my "unequal" exercise of power, the Dems have the opportunity to make a one-time offset of current Republican cheating, then go a long ways to preventing both themselves and the GOP from doing it again in the future. Hell, they could make virtually impossible to ever again change the make-up of the court by requiring 2/3 to do it.

Without a guarantee like that, it's trading long-term war over the size of the court as majorities slosh back and forth for a few years of stability. Hell, maybe even a mere two years, assuming that once Trump is out of the way enough people slosh back to voting GOP and we lose gains made in 2020. Court-expansion is a risk I'd only want to take if there were solid measures in place to stop it from becoming and endless tit for tat.
 
Mr Person said:
The trouble with your approach is that they'll just pack the court again themselves when they get a chance.

Whereas with my "unequal" exercise of power, the Dems have the opportunity to make a one-time offset of current Republican cheating, then go a long ways to preventing both themselves and the GOP from doing it again in the future. Hell, they could make virtually impossible to ever again change the make-up of the court by requiring 2/3 to do it.

Without a guarantee like that, it's trading long-term war over the size of the court as majorities slosh back and forth for a few years of stability. Hell, maybe even a mere two years, assuming that once Trump is out of the way enough people slosh back to voting GOP and we lose gains made in 2020. Court-expansion is a risk I'd only want to take if there were solid measures in place to stop it from becoming and endless tit for tat.
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They'll have to get power to re-pack the courts first. With the additional states and the loss of their vote suppression tactics, they'll have to have ideas that appeal to the broader public. That means adopting policies that appeal to more than white rural racists and conspiracy theorists. Do you see that happening any time soon? Because I sure don't.

What I don't like about your approach is that it doesn't give Republicans an incentive to stop being evil. Mine does.
 
Cardinal said:
They'll have to get power to re-pack the courts first. With the additional states and the loss of their vote suppression tactics, they'll have to have ideas that appeal to the broader public. That means adopting policies that appeal to more than white rural racists and conspiracy theorists. Do you see that happening any time soon? Because I sure don't.

What I don't like about your approach is that it doesn't give Republicans an incentive to stop being evil. Mine does.
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I suppose part of my thinking involves a lack of faith that the current crop can stop being evil. I kinda lost faith in humanity over the years.

How does one go from smearing the first black president as a foreign-born muslim, to cheering on an outright racist criminal bastard who openly admits to downplaying COVID and getting so many killed all because he pisses off liberals, to.......... an awakening? And if their supporters don't, why will they, whether "they" means GOPers still in office or those to come?

Maybe if we sent them on an Ayahuasca retreat with therapists specializing in anti-personality disorder and the like, or maybe a bunch of hippie drum circles and LSD, I dunno . . . .
 
Mr Person said:
I suppose part of my thinking involves a lack of faith that the current crop can stop being evil. I kinda lost faith in humanity over the years.
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Well that's their problem. My plan gives them an incentive to stop being evil, but if they insist on being evil anyway they stay out of power, and if they turn good then....well...that's good. It's win-win.

Mr Person said:
How does one go from smearing the first black president as a foreign-born muslim, to cheering on an outright racist criminal bastard who openly admits to downplaying COVID and getting so many killed all because he pisses off liberals, to.......... an awakening? And if their supporters don't, why will they, whether "they" means GOPers still in office or those to come?

Maybe if we sent them on an Ayahuasca retreat with therapists specializing in anti-personality disorder and the like, or maybe a bunch of hippie drum circles and LSD, I dunno . . . .
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Well maybe they don't awaken. Under my plan, that would be tough titties for them.
 
Athanasius68 said:
What is happening is that Progressives and liberals tend to view the courts as a legislative body-- if they can't get the support of the people via their elected representatives for whatever particular policy they desire, they will work to get it accomplished through the courts. So they have a concern with losing control of that branch.
They then assume that conservatives or non-progressives view the courts they do.
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These lefists have completely ignored what the courts are supposed to do.
the problem is that they can't get their nonsense passed constitutionally so they try to do so through the courts.

The courts have taken on a mantle of power they never were supposed to have.
The Marshall court was a complete disaster.

They took power they were never intended to have. The courts do not have the power to change law or the constitution.
yet the courts constantly unconstitutionally re-write the constitution.
 
Cardinal said:
Well that's their problem. My plan gives them an incentive to stop being evil, but if they insist on being evil anyway they stay out of power, and if they turn good then....well...that's good. It's win-win.



Well maybe they don't awaken. Under my plan, that would be tough titties for them.
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I suppose the one thing remaining unstated is that I do not see two more states likely to be consistently blue as any sort of guarantee of Dem majorities just so long as the GOP doesn't change. I think they could continue to be evil and still periodically take a majority, especially when the Republicans/center people who refuse to vote Trump in 2020 are instead faced with whether or not to send in a GOP senator . . .

Yeah, it'd make it harder for them to get a majority, but not so difficult that they'd be likely to change. I rather expect the only way they change is if old angry white Trumpists straight up die out. ie, 20, 30 years....
 
ludin said:
The court will have nothing to do with his agenda unless you think biden is going to make a ton of unconstitutional laws.
if that is the case why are you supporting biden again?

you howl about the constitution on a daily basis so why would you support someone that is going to sign a bunch of unconstitutional laws?
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If more justices are appointed then his policies will be constitutional. Easy peasy.
 
Cardinal said:
If more justices are appointed then his policies will be constitutional. Easy peasy.
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So you are now for unconstitutional laws got it.
so all your faux outrage is just that. thanks for letting everyone know.
 
ludin said:
So you are now for unconstitutional laws got it.
so all your faux outrage is just that. thanks for letting everyone know.
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Yep-- the courts are nothing more than super legislatures for the progressives.
'Tis a shame they think this...
 
Athanasius68 said:
Yep-- the courts are nothing more than super legislatures for the progressives.
'Tis a shame they think this...
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which is not what they were supposed to be which is why we need conservative judges.
 
What the Senate Republicans did to Garland was absurd and the ONLY reason we're taking hypocrisy now. Garland should've atleast had a vote and in the end Obama should've been able to get his pick appointed to the SCOUTUS. That said, don't think Democrats should install two or more picks to make up for the one Obama didn't get.

If current demographic trends continue Democrats will soon be in control of the Presidency and possibly the House for years to come, which will leave maybe the Senate and SCOUTUS as the check conservatives maybe can rely on to balance out Dem control. Although, I prefer Liberal leadership on the national level don't see having Dems in complete control of everything as a panacea to all our problems.

Still believe in checks and balances despite what I see as a travesty of justice in regards to Obama/Garland and many areas Trump and Republican enablers are engaged in at the moment.




Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
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ludin said:
So you are now for unconstitutional laws got it.
so all your faux outrage is just that. thanks for letting everyone know.
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If the SC rules that the laws are Constitutional then they’re Constitutional.
 
Politicians NEED to quit using the courts as a bypass of the legislature.

Presidents executive privilege needs to be reined in dramatically ...........
 
Razoo said:
Politicians NEED to quit using the courts as a bypass of the legislature.
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Yep-- Biden should be asked whether his candidates would apply the law, or simply their personal preference.
Clearly the progressives prefer the latter.

Presidents executive privilege needs to be reined in dramatically ...........
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Maybe. But then the same ought be true for Congress.
 
Cardinal said:
If the SC rules that the laws are Constitutional then they’re Constitutional.
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not really you keep thinking that. then again you way leads us to a totalitarian government which is what leftists want anyway.

congrats. your true motivation is revealed.
 
ludin said:
not really you keep thinking that. then again you way leads us to a totalitarian government which is what leftists want anyway.

congrats. your true motivation is revealed.
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Fill in the blank:

If the Supreme Court finds a law to be Constitutional, then that law is ____________.

I'll give you a hint. The answer is "Constitutional."
 
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