Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.[W:963:1176:1448]

[haymarket]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Nope, but a government that robs Peter to pay Paul is.

Can you name a government that does not take from one person and the benefit is reaped by a different person?

 

[sawdust]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Of course you don't. You don't even have to explain it. You are a self confessed right libertarian and the Von Mises Institutute has been heard to withdraw that label from any who fail to uphold the party line.

since you are so well read, what was your opinion of the multi-volume Arthur Schlesinger work on FDR and the New Deal particularly how he traced the origins of the Depression into the post WW1 period and the ills that beset the nation when FDR took over?

I have no opinion because I haven't read it. You should follow my lead.

 

[Federalist]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Can you name a government that does not take from one person and the benefit is reaped by a different person?

Moving goalposts.

I didn't say "benefit is reaped". I said "robs Peter to pay Paul", as in income redistribution.

We all reap benefits from a government that uses taxes only to protect and defend the person, property, and individual liberty of its citizens.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

I have no opinion because I haven't read it. You should follow my lead.

What lead is that? The practice of pretending to know about an era of history without having first read the most authoritative work done on that era?

 

[haymarket]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Moving goalposts.

I didn't say "benefit is reaped". I said "robs Peter to pay Paul", as in income redistribution.

We all reap benefits from a government that uses taxes only to protect and defend the person, property, and individual liberty of its citizens.

Money is money is money is money. I think Shakespeare said that. No matter what form it comes in - its still a benefit financially. You pretending that there is a difference in a citizen getting a welfare check and Wal Mart squeezing a new off ramp for their store from the State or local government is a distinction without a difference.

 

[sawdust]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

What lead is that?

Not talking about books I haven't read. Simple.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Not talking about books I haven't read. Simple.

Now I thought you were referring to your lead of pretending to know about an era of history without having read the definitive and most authoritative work done on that era as you have done by not reading the Schlesinger series on FDR and the New Deal.

 

[Federalist]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Money is money is money is money. I think Shakespeare said that. No matter what form it comes in - its still a benefit financially. You pretending that there is a difference in a citizen getting a welfare check and Wal Mart squeezing a new off ramp for their store from the State or local government is a distinction without a difference.

There is a difference between using tax revenue to build infrastructure and and handing out tax money as charity.

 

[sawdust]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Now I thought you were referring to your lead of pretending to know about an era of history without having read the definitive and most authoritative work done on that era as you have done by not reading the Schlesinger series on FDR and the New Deal.

My entire disagreement with you is based on the fact that you were critical of the Schlaes book without having the faintest idea about how it was written, what it is about and how it's annotated. Reading the Cliff Notes is nothing like reading the book.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

My entire disagreement with you is based on the fact that you were critical of the Schlaes book without having the faintest idea about how it was written, what it is about and how it's annotated. Reading the Cliff Notes is nothing like reading the book.

That is not at all true. I was very familiar with the right libertarian revisionism that she uses. The argument is far from a new one and I have read it is several different manifestations - each slightly different but basically all taking the same tact.

You, on the other hand, apparently pretend to know about an era of history without having ever read the definitive authoritative work on that era.

So which is he greater transgression? :roll:

 

[haymarket]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

There is a difference between using tax revenue to build infrastructure and and handing out tax money as charity.

It is a distinction without a difference. Someone who lives nowhere near that off ramp that WalMart bullied from the State or local government can well see it as charity.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Progressive taxation is evil. Greedy people wanting "other people's money." A single tax rate should be used for everyone. People better off already pay more as the same percentage of more money is more taxed.

 

[Federalist]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

It is a difference without a distinction. Someone who lives nowhere near that off ramp that WalMart bullied from the State or local government can well see it as charity.

They could see it as charity, but it's not charity. It's building infrastructure.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

They could see it as charity, but it's not charity. It's building infrastructure.

To benefit one multi billion dollar multi national company. It could well be seen as charity.

 

[sawdust]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

That is not at all true. I was very familiar with the right libertarian revisionism that she uses. The argument is far from a new one and I have read it is several different manifestations - each slightly different but basically all taking the same tact.

You, on the other hand, apparently pretend to know about an era of history without having ever read the definitive authoritative work on that era.

So which is he greater transgression? :roll:

Just to be clear. You've made a bunch of assumptions. That's about all I've gotten from our discussion. I've been running into that a bunch here lately.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Just to be clear. You've made a bunch of assumptions. That's about all I've gotten from our discussion. I've been running into that a bunch here lately.

Assumptions!?!?!? You said you had not read the multi volume Schlesinger work in question.

 

[Federalist]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

To benefit one multi billion dollar multi national company. It could well be seen as charity.

Infrastructure does not benefit single companies. But hey, if you want to get the government out of the infrastructure business, I'm all ears.

 

[sawdust]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Not going to do this all afternoon. You've made a bunch of assumptions about, well, everything from what the Shlaes book says to what I believe or don't believe about the depression. You've given me little that I care to work with and I'm starting to find this conversation boring. I have no idea what that has to do with the Schlesinger book which I've already said that I can't comment on because unlike you, I don't talk about things I don't know about. There, I'm done.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Infrastructure does not benefit single companies. But hey, if you want to get the government out of the infrastructure business, I'm all ears.

In the case I mentioned - it clearly was designed to benefit one specific company.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Not going to do this all afternoon. You've made a bunch of assumptions about, well, everything from what the Shlaes book says to what I believe or don't believe about the depression. You've given me little that I care to work with and I'm starting to find this conversation boring. I have no idea what that has to do with the Schlesinger book which I've already said that I can't comment on because unlike you, I don't talk about things I don't know about. There, I'm done.

Done? Done?! You pontificate about FDR and the New Deal and chastise me for not having read a relatively recent revisionist and admittedly biased work on both subjects but you yourself have failed to read the definitive and authoritative work on FDR and his New Deal. Done? You never really were started.

 

[Federalist]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

In the case I mentioned - it clearly was designed to benefit one specific company.

Just the company? Not the customers?

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Done? Done?! You pontificate about FDR and the New Deal and chastise me for not having read a relatively recent revisionist and admittedly biased work on both subjects but you yourself have failed to read the definitive and authoritative work on FDR and his New Deal. Done? You never really were started.

Just a technical point: If there is a recent revisionist account then there is no extant definitive work.eace

 

[sawdust]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

I didn't pontificate about anything but how stupid it was to comment on a book you didn't read.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

Just a technical point: If there is a recent revisionist account then there is no extant definitive work.eace

There are always new works. However, let us look at the January 4, 1959 review in the New York Times from no less a figure than Henry Steele Commager

Here, following swiftly after the first, is the second volume of Arthur M. Schlesinger Jr.'s history of the Age of Roosevelt. Spacious and monumental in form, scholarly and authoritative in character, spirited and affluent in style, it promises to be one of the major works in American historical literature.

If anything has replaced the Schlesinger series as the definitive and authoritative work on the New Deal, I am not aware of it and would welcome knowing about it.

 

[haymarket]

Re: Progressive taxation is not only essential, but MORAL.

I didn't pontificate about anything but how stupid it was to comment on a book you didn't read.

The premise was not new.

The perspective was not new.

The ideological bent was not new.

The historical material was most definitely not new.

I am well aware of the right libertarian hatred and loathing for FDR as their own little cause celebre. Based on what I read about the book you recommended, I saw nothing that merited its purchase or its reading.